Driving habits abroad - what can we learn ?

[gifdy]

Just back from a two week holiday in Crete where we hired a car. The missus has family there and warned me about the 'crazy' local driving. To be fair at first it seemed like absolute bedlam but once you got in the groove it was a really relaxing and enjoyable experience.

Their roadmarkings (where there are any) are a bit odd. They have about 1 1/2 lanes on each side delineated with a solid white line. On the right is a sort of hard shoulder which the locals sit astride.. If anyone comes up behind they simply budge over to the right onto the hard shoulder, or in some cases the ditch and let the faster car past. No coffee beans signs or beeping horns, no flashing lights because someone had the audacity to overtake. Everyone just gone on with it & at their own pace.

Best bit was the wider mountain roads with plenty of bends. Even the ancient guys in the 300year old Toyota trucks stacked to the heavens with olive crates pick racing lines Ayrton Senna would have been proud of. Never saw a missed apex in two weeks.

The only thng that kept throwing me was the priority on roundabouts. Those entering the roundabout have priority over those that are on it. Couple of close shaves there ....

Anyway, a bit of that 'just get on with it' attitude over here would make driving a lot more pleasurable ( and yes, Mr Brown, to some of us it is a pleasure ).

So; Cretan overtaking, Finnish car control on loose surfaces - where else should we learn from ?

[Mr Gearchange]

French lane discipline. On the motorways the Frogs know what lane to drive in and there is distinct absence to MLM's.

German De-restricted Autobahns - completely at odds with the Mantra that "Speed Kills"

Edited for Bid Spooling

Edited by Mr Gearchange on Wednesday 14th October 14:46

[gifdy]

Oops - should have been in General Gassing

[rev-erend]

Less traffic .. always makes it easier.

[RUSSELLM]

'Observations' from driving in Italy......When in the overtaking lane, try & stay within a foot of the car in front. It's stops the slower cars coming out in to your lane.

At junctions, the faster car has priority.

If turning left at traffic lights, ignore Red lights if there's nothing coming from your Right.... like in America. However, this only applies to certain junctions, the car driver behind taps the horn to let you know which one's this rule is applicable to.

[Steve_T]

Found the same about Crete this summer, get over for faster cars and no worries. I would say though that the locals picked some real choice overtaking spots, crossing a solid white line into a blind corner was a favourite. There was also a large number of roadside shrines around, even on straight roads, you saw them too I take it.

[dugt]

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM&fea...

how many lines do you see?
how many sign posts do you see?
how many cameras do you see?

how many crashes, injuries and deaths do you see???

i did 2500 miles through france, with a bit of italy, germany, luxemburg, belgium and monaco

driving was so much easier, on the motorways, everyone kept right, caravans would overtake you at 80, and no one batted an eye lid, there were services every 10 or 20 km, compare that to the 3 on the m25, arguably one of the busyest roads in europe

in the towns, you didnt stop for zebra crossings, the pedestrians realised that 2 tones of car would flatten them so they didnt walk out,
there were hardly any speed cameras, especially in towns, and the ones on the motorways werre sign posted miles before

italy was much the same, but even better

[HellDiver]

Spain isn't bad either, had great fun motoring about in a little 1.2 Clio. Slow as st, but fit in well with the S. Spanish roads and drivers.

[gifdy]

Steve_T said:

Found the same about Crete this summer, get over for faster cars and no worries. I would say though that the locals picked some real choice overtaking spots, crossing a solid white line into a blind corner was a favourite. There was also a large number of roadside shrines around, even on straight roads, you saw them too I take it.

True, but it seems you flash your lights at the oncoming traffic and they budge over. If not then what the hell, you've had a good innings and what better way to go than over a cliff edge and end your days in an Olive Grove ?

They all live to over 100 so maybe it is a way of population control

I also assume they don't have MOTs. The state of some of the trucks was shocking. We saw one truck with different tyres, including widths all round, collapsed suspension on one side and no passenger or driver's door !

[hamzamian]

dugt said:

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM&fea...

how many lines do you see?
how many sign posts do you see?
how many cameras do you see?

how many crashes, injuries and deaths do you see???

To be fair though, the average speed is much lower too than it is in an average UK city. I tend to find its an event if you manage to get up to 30mph when driving in the Indian subcontinent.

[RobM77]

I've often thought the same, and reckon the following:

• Attitude If you live in a lovely country with the sea nearby and are surrounded by beautiful ladies in bikinis then you're going to be a lot less stressed and more forgiving on the roads. This is why you get less road rage in Cornwall, Jersey or the Scilly Isles than in London.

• Simplicity of the roads. In Mediterranean countries they don't tend to have roads so complicated that they cause the average numpty to get all upset and angry when they don't understand how they work. Cutting people up, using roundabouts incorrectly, failing to signal etc don't matter when there are no multi-lane roads and roundabouts etc. Remember, the average IQ is only 100 and evidently that isn't enough to deal with the average UK road.

[dugt]

hamzamian said:

dugt said:

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM&fea...

how many lines do you see?
how many sign posts do you see?
how many cameras do you see?

how many crashes, injuries and deaths do you see???

To be fair though, the average speed is much lower too than it is in an average UK city. I tend to find its an event if you manage to get up to 30mph when driving in the Indian subcontinent.

its an event if you get to 30 in london, but if you do, you can expect a letter of recognition from the police
i think the avarage speed in london is like 10 mph or something silly

eta: sorry my mistake, its actually 11 mph now, carefull now, thats pretty scary, think of the children

Edited by dugt on Wednesday 14th October 16:45

[Mars]

rev-erend said:

Less traffic .. always makes it easier.

Yep. The sheer number of cars per miles of road, and the expectation that the multitude of rules in the UK must be obeyed, is what makes driving here more stressful than elsewhere.

Having said that, it would be interesting to compare accident stats between countries too.

[gifdy]

rev-erend said:

Less traffic .. always makes it easier.

Generally true, but the same approach seemed to work in Heraklion which was as bad as anywhere I've drive in the UK in terms of density of cars. Throw in mopeds coming at you at all angles adds to the potential chaos but yet it all seemed to work without people getting upset.

Perhaps it's all about punctuality - I was on holiday and didn't need to be anywhere at any particular time & the Greeks have their own 'flexible' approach to timekeeping.

Either that or it was the distinct lack of BMWs on the road

[elster]

Keep left when not overtaking.

This would also cut down on the huge amounts of congestion.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

I'm not sure Cretan vehicles would catch on here though:

[A911DOM]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

I'm not sure Cretan vehicles would catch on here though:

A couple of those look like a trike project I actually managed to get an MOT on a few years back

In answer to the OP's question - I think its to do with where you are in these countries.

IMO if you are near a major town - Paris / Brussels / etc then I would imagine the same undisciplined busy chaos will reign supreme.

It is the norm in Belgium to sit on peoples bumpers until they move out of the way, if they dont do it quickly enough then you will be under-taken! Not a good driving habit in my book.

The roundabouts used to operate where the oncoming vehicles had priority over the traffic already on the roundabout - but this has been changed. So if you are unlucky enough to be on a roundabout and one of the many appauling drivers who are 'of an age' to be used to the other rule - you stand a decent chance of winding up with their battered, parking dinked st box implanted in the side of your car.

ALSO, you are taught to use the outside lane of a roundabout over here regardless of which exit you intend to take. Bearing in mind there are so many roundabouts and most of them have at least 2 lanes, it is incredibly dangerous and confusing (certainly initially) for a foreigner attempting to negotiate this obstacle.

Again, in Belgium they have multiple junctions and stcaked junctions when entering / leaving motorways. You really need to keep your whits about you and be in the correct lane or you can be caught 5 or 6 lanes away from the place where you want to be. Once you're used to it you tend to treat these particular junctions as some kind of arcade game and it becomes 'normal'.

Certainly, around the brussels region they do not give you warning of speed cameras - although theres no need to worry about these currently if you're driving your UK registered car

[Mikeyboy]

elster said:

Keep left when not overtaking.

This would also cut down on the huge amounts of congestion.

Oh yes, have to agree with that

[Motorrad]

ZIP MERGE IN TURN.

Hate to shout but there seem to be a lot of numpties around who seem to think one long line of traffic is the way forward.

[El Guapo]

Spain again. If there is no vacant parking spot people simply double-park. If the bloke who has been boxed in needs to move he parps his horn once, double parker emerges from shop or office, gets out of his way and it´s relaxed smiles and cheery waves all round. No shouting, no swearing, no threats of violence.