Towing on an A bar
Discussion
Hi all
After a little searching around I'm confused by the legalities of towing a vehicle on an A bar. As far as I can see, they are meant to be for recovery purposes. However, you seem to see mint little run abouts (KA's, C1's etc) being pulled behind motorhomes all the time - these cannot be all being recovered.
What is the legal stance on the MOT/Tax/Insurance status on the "towed" vehicle?
The reason for my question? I have to sell my Disco off roader as it won't fit in my new garage. To keep costs down I'm thinking of going for an SJ and A frame it to Pay n Play sites behind my hack. For costs reasons I'd love to only MOT it and not tax or insure it, since it won't ever be driven on the public road.
If I can't A frame it, what are my choices? I don't have room for a trailer, so is there some sort of "dolly wheels" which would satisfy the BiB?
After a little searching around I'm confused by the legalities of towing a vehicle on an A bar. As far as I can see, they are meant to be for recovery purposes. However, you seem to see mint little run abouts (KA's, C1's etc) being pulled behind motorhomes all the time - these cannot be all being recovered.
What is the legal stance on the MOT/Tax/Insurance status on the "towed" vehicle?
The reason for my question? I have to sell my Disco off roader as it won't fit in my new garage. To keep costs down I'm thinking of going for an SJ and A frame it to Pay n Play sites behind my hack. For costs reasons I'd love to only MOT it and not tax or insure it, since it won't ever be driven on the public road.
If I can't A frame it, what are my choices? I don't have room for a trailer, so is there some sort of "dolly wheels" which would satisfy the BiB?
eltax91 said:
Hi all
After a little searching around I'm confused by the legalities of towing a vehicle on an A bar. As far as I can see, they are meant to be for recovery purposes. However, you seem to see mint little run abouts (KA's, C1's etc) being pulled behind motorhomes all the time - these cannot be all being recovered.
What is the legal stance on the MOT/Tax/Insurance status on the "towed" vehicle?
The reason for my question? I have to sell my Disco off roader as it won't fit in my new garage. To keep costs down I'm thinking of going for an SJ and A frame it to Pay n Play sites behind my hack. For costs reasons I'd love to only MOT it and not tax or insure it, since it won't ever be driven on the public road.
If I can't A frame it, what are my choices? I don't have room for a trailer, so is there some sort of "dolly wheels" which would satisfy the BiB?
It's illegal except in an emergency for recovery to a convenient (safe) place.After a little searching around I'm confused by the legalities of towing a vehicle on an A bar. As far as I can see, they are meant to be for recovery purposes. However, you seem to see mint little run abouts (KA's, C1's etc) being pulled behind motorhomes all the time - these cannot be all being recovered.
What is the legal stance on the MOT/Tax/Insurance status on the "towed" vehicle?
The reason for my question? I have to sell my Disco off roader as it won't fit in my new garage. To keep costs down I'm thinking of going for an SJ and A frame it to Pay n Play sites behind my hack. For costs reasons I'd love to only MOT it and not tax or insure it, since it won't ever be driven on the public road.
If I can't A frame it, what are my choices? I don't have room for a trailer, so is there some sort of "dolly wheels" which would satisfy the BiB?
If ANY of the wheels of the car touches the ground it must be taxed and tested.
doogz said:
It's a tricky one.
I used one a while back, and spoke to a family member who's a traffic cop about it, and he gave me advice, as best as he could, but it's a bit of a grey area.
If it's on an A-Frame, it's a trailer, in that, it needs a trailer board with a numberplate and a set of lights, and no-one should be inside it. But it's unbraked, since no-one should be in it at the time, so you'll be exceeding the 750Kg unbraked towing weight capacity of the tow car. As far as i know, as it's technically a trailer, it doesn't need tax or MOT, and as the arrangement is attached to your tow ball, not a rope, you are properly towing it, it should be covered by the tow cars insurance.
You'll need to have passed your test in before 97 or hold your B+E.
Also, what are you planning on pulling it with?
An SJ, made as light as possible without removing anything that would stop it being MOT'd. Panels will remain, but anything of weight will come out if it can.I used one a while back, and spoke to a family member who's a traffic cop about it, and he gave me advice, as best as he could, but it's a bit of a grey area.
If it's on an A-Frame, it's a trailer, in that, it needs a trailer board with a numberplate and a set of lights, and no-one should be inside it. But it's unbraked, since no-one should be in it at the time, so you'll be exceeding the 750Kg unbraked towing weight capacity of the tow car. As far as i know, as it's technically a trailer, it doesn't need tax or MOT, and as the arrangement is attached to your tow ball, not a rope, you are properly towing it, it should be covered by the tow cars insurance.
You'll need to have passed your test in before 97 or hold your B+E.
Also, what are you planning on pulling it with?
doogz said:
If it's on an A-Frame, it's a trailer, in that, it needs a trailer board with a numberplate and a set of lights, and no-one should be inside it. But it's unbraked, since no-one should be in it at the time, so you'll be exceeding the 750Kg unbraked towing weight capacity of the tow car.
You can get kits to fit to the car which cause it's brakes to operate in the correct way while being towed, which is how a lot of these motorhome + run around combinations are legal.The only problem is that it's a semi-permanent modification, rather than a 5 minute fit, so is only worth doing if you are going to be towing the vehicle with an a-frame regularly.
doogz said:
Cool, how do they work? I can think of a couple of ways of making it work, but how do the kits you buy work?
I don't know, I just remember reading about the legalities in Practical Motorhome recently. It's worth pointing out that even when braked correctly, A frames are still not legal in continental Europe.TBH, for the time, effort and money involved, I'd rather just buy a trailer!
doogz said:
Having looked at the owners profile, and making an assumption, which is probably a bad idea, he's planning on towing a Disco, with an Octavia.
You'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
I'd suggest you re-read the OP! He is planning on selling the Disco offroader & getting an SJ, no mention of trailer either. That with an A Frame on an Octavia I'd have thought possibleYou'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
Towing an off roader with wheels on the ground will be illegal so trailer best option.
Rules for A frames are a bit vague but a few thinsg are definate - car must be road legal (MOT, tax, insurance) and broken down / unable to move under it's own power so emergency recovery to place of repair etc.
I use one and tow all sorts of things and accept the consequences if caught but would never consider towing a stripped down off roader possibly covered in mud !
Brian James offer a folding hitch option on their small trailers so that it is then short enough to go into a lock-up or domestic garage. Might be worth a look to see if other trailers could be adapted as well (I have a folding 8'x4' flatbed)
The braked A frames have a sliding hitch that works a cable which then operated a mechanism that presses down on the brake pedal. The ones behind motorhomes are similar but a more permanent cable attachment to pedal with a quick release under front bumper.
Neither fully comply with law as they don't have auto reverse facillity.
There is another system that is powered by brake light circuit -
http://www.smart-tow.com/braking.htm
Paul H
Rules for A frames are a bit vague but a few thinsg are definate - car must be road legal (MOT, tax, insurance) and broken down / unable to move under it's own power so emergency recovery to place of repair etc.
I use one and tow all sorts of things and accept the consequences if caught but would never consider towing a stripped down off roader possibly covered in mud !
Brian James offer a folding hitch option on their small trailers so that it is then short enough to go into a lock-up or domestic garage. Might be worth a look to see if other trailers could be adapted as well (I have a folding 8'x4' flatbed)
The braked A frames have a sliding hitch that works a cable which then operated a mechanism that presses down on the brake pedal. The ones behind motorhomes are similar but a more permanent cable attachment to pedal with a quick release under front bumper.
Neither fully comply with law as they don't have auto reverse facillity.
There is another system that is powered by brake light circuit -
http://www.smart-tow.com/braking.htm
Paul H
Mr Will said:
eltax91 said:
...I don't have room for a trailer...
Where are you going to keep the SJ then? Just leave the SJ on the trailer and it'll only take up one space.doogz said:
tr7v8 said:
doogz said:
Having looked at the owners profile, and making an assumption, which is probably a bad idea, he's planning on towing a Disco, with an Octavia.
You'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
I'd suggest you re-read the OP! He is planning on selling the Disco offroader & getting an SJ, no mention of trailer either. That with an A Frame on an Octavia I'd have thought possibleYou'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
You say you don't have room for a trailer, but i wouldn't do it any other way. What happens when you shear a hub, buckle a wheel, burst a tyre, anything like that? You can't bring it home on an a-frame then.
doogz said:
eltax91 said:
doogz said:
tr7v8 said:
doogz said:
Having looked at the owners profile, and making an assumption, which is probably a bad idea, he's planning on towing a Disco, with an Octavia.
You'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
I'd suggest you re-read the OP! He is planning on selling the Disco offroader & getting an SJ, no mention of trailer either. That with an A Frame on an Octavia I'd have thought possibleYou'll not get a trailer that'll allow you to do that, such a thing will not exist!
You say you don't have room for a trailer, but i wouldn't do it any other way. What happens when you shear a hub, buckle a wheel, burst a tyre, anything like that? You can't bring it home on an a-frame then.
last time I did, IIRC it was £100 for the weekend 
cornet87 said:
Hi, I have had this problem in the past and a possible solution could be a towing dolly, the front wheels of the towed car are off the ground sitting on a two wheeled small braked trailer which swivels in the middle, have a google and see what i mean.
hope this helps.
Yes, this is what you need, I'm pretty sure haing the two front wheels off the ground makes it legal. and from my very breif experience and from what other people have told me Towing dollys drive a lot better?hope this helps.
The only time I used a A frame It span my farthers car out TWICE on two small roundabouts. We were only towing a Ginetta probabley around 800/100kg. We were going really slowly and even slower the second time, and no the steering lock wasnt on! after that we gave up and drove the car home!
cornet87 said:
Hi, I have had this problem in the past and a possible solution could be a towing dolly, the front wheels of the towed car are off the ground sitting on a two wheeled small braked trailer which swivels in the middle, have a google and see what i mean.
hope this helps.
Did you read this thread? Dolly/A-frames are basically illegal, here's (yet another) description of the same law:hope this helps.
http://www.ttas.co.uk/towsafe.cartransport.html
Unless you can make it all under 750kg (including the weight of the A-frame/dolly) then all of the wheels touching the ground need to be braked. In this case the OP is talking about a Suzuki SJ which will NEVER come close to 750kg.
Most of the motorhomes carrying small cars are actually doing do illegally - plod turn a blind eye because they generally know no better.
Edited by GreigM on Friday 7th January 09:10
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