RE: Jaguar Wants Another 3-series Rival
Tuesday 1st February 2011
Remember this? Jag wants another goRumours have been swirling the internet for a while that Jaguar is once again mulling the possibility of a 3-series rival. Now, though, the rumours have some credibility, with Jaguar's new global brand director behind them.
Jaguar Wants Another 3-series Rival
Brand director says Jaguar needs to offer lower-priced models
Remember this? Jag wants another go
"We need different models. We need lower-priced models," said Adrian Hallmark, speaking with US car magazine Autoweek.
And that means a model below the XF - probably a saloon - to compete against the BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and Merceeds C-class. "We need to play in that world," says Hallmark. "Jaguar needs a small sports car for image and a sedan for volume. We have to do both. Whether we do one, two or three body styles, we can still decide. But we have to be in the lower price."
"We are at the beginning of that process, four-plus years before we see the first launch."
It's certainly an intriguing prospect, but we can't help feeling that we've been here before. The original idea behind the X Type was to create a car to take on BMW, Mercedes and Audi in their compact executive heartlands.
It was a fine idea in principle but, as a general rule, the profit margins on a car get smaller as you increase volume, so you need to make big sales to make big money. And the Germans - particularly BMW - have a stranglehold on the compact executive market, making it hard to make significant inroads.
It's also a stranglehold that has, since the X Type first appeared a decade ago, got noticeably stronger. So while we applaud Jaguar's rumoured plans in principle - the Big Cat had better be damn sure it knows where its profit margins are coming from.
Discussion
Three things to take into account for them:
Emissions so it actually makes it onto the company cars list.
Image so people consider it as a competitor to the 3 series.
Dynamics so Clarkson tells people it is a competitor to the 3 series.
For me, whether I like it and the review from more than just Clarkson would be used to decide whether I want one. But I'm not the masses. The above are what they need to consider to be able to get the volume sales needed to make money on them.
Emissions so it actually makes it onto the company cars list.
Image so people consider it as a competitor to the 3 series.
Dynamics so Clarkson tells people it is a competitor to the 3 series.
For me, whether I like it and the review from more than just Clarkson would be used to decide whether I want one. But I'm not the masses. The above are what they need to consider to be able to get the volume sales needed to make money on them.
I think Jaguar in a very different place now to where they were when the X-Type was introduced. That car also suffered (rightly or wrongly) from the Mondeo in drag factor. Remember they were also producing the S-Type and the old XJ at the time.
To be honest who after the S-Type would have thought Jag could really build a credible alternative to the 5 series/E Class/A6 etc, but the XF was a real turning point I think.
The range now, XF, new XJ and XK are are brilliant alternatives to the obvious German rivals and I think Jaguar are in a great position to be able to offer up a 3 series alternative - good luck to them!
To be honest who after the S-Type would have thought Jag could really build a credible alternative to the 5 series/E Class/A6 etc, but the XF was a real turning point I think.
The range now, XF, new XJ and XK are are brilliant alternatives to the obvious German rivals and I think Jaguar are in a great position to be able to offer up a 3 series alternative - good luck to them!
Since the old 3-series wasn't pretty and the new one will probably as common and boaring as the new 5-series, I guess, Jaguar will have a good chance of coming up with a worthy contender.
The new Jags XF and XJ are really stunning IMO.
I hope a smaller Jag will be as nice and modern.
The only but important problem, however, is that too many people are shopping for BRAND and not for good resolved modern design, really.
Most BMWs have wierd lines all over the place... and despite that they sell very well.
People think BMW = sporty, so they buy but not for the look of it, really.
I.e. how on earth can Toyota and Lexus be the the best selling car company with virually NO sense for design whatsoever. And look at the recent Mercedes, the E-class, the CLS or the new SLK. They look 'YUK' and much older than the older ones.
The old Jaguar X looked pretty, I thought. But the press damaged the car by complaining about the Ford Mondeo chassis and destroyed any success, despite the fact the suspension wasn't bad and in addition it was 4x4.
So, even if Jaguar comes up with a very cool design for the new small X-Type, you never know how it is accepted. It is important they also create the "right image" the customers would be tempted to.
The new Jags XF and XJ are really stunning IMO.
I hope a smaller Jag will be as nice and modern.
The only but important problem, however, is that too many people are shopping for BRAND and not for good resolved modern design, really.
Most BMWs have wierd lines all over the place... and despite that they sell very well.
People think BMW = sporty, so they buy but not for the look of it, really.
I.e. how on earth can Toyota and Lexus be the the best selling car company with virually NO sense for design whatsoever. And look at the recent Mercedes, the E-class, the CLS or the new SLK. They look 'YUK' and much older than the older ones.
The old Jaguar X looked pretty, I thought. But the press damaged the car by complaining about the Ford Mondeo chassis and destroyed any success, despite the fact the suspension wasn't bad and in addition it was 4x4.
So, even if Jaguar comes up with a very cool design for the new small X-Type, you never know how it is accepted. It is important they also create the "right image" the customers would be tempted to.
I really liked the X Type, it looked great and had a good interior and brought a lot of class to the price point. However, I don't think it needed a 4WD system or FWD either, it needed RWD! I think one of the reasons BMW are so popular is because of the driving dynamics offered by the RWD setup, not in spite of them.
PhilipAlfa said:
I think Jaguar in a very different place now to where they were when the X-Type was introduced. That car also suffered (rightly or wrongly) from the Mondeo in drag factor. Remember they were also producing the S-Type and the old XJ at the time.
To be honest who after the S-Type would have thought Jag could really build a credible alternative to the 5 series/E Class/A6 etc, but the XF was a real turning point I think.
The range now, XF, new XJ and XK are are brilliant alternatives to the obvious German rivals and I think Jaguar are in a great position to be able to offer up a 3 series alternative - good luck to them!
That's pretty much what i was going to say, although i'll add that i think they need to make a small Coupe (a mini-XK), perhaps with a 3.0 V6. That would sell very well.To be honest who after the S-Type would have thought Jag could really build a credible alternative to the 5 series/E Class/A6 etc, but the XF was a real turning point I think.
The range now, XF, new XJ and XK are are brilliant alternatives to the obvious German rivals and I think Jaguar are in a great position to be able to offer up a 3 series alternative - good luck to them!
louiebaby said:
Three things to take into account for them:
Emissions so it actually makes it onto the company cars list.
Image so people consider it as a competitor to the 3 series.
Dynamics so Clarkson tells people it is a competitor to the 3 series.
For me, whether I like it and the review from more than just Clarkson would be used to decide whether I want one. But I'm not the masses. The above are what they need to consider to be able to get the volume sales needed to make money on them.
I think you have a strong point here!Emissions so it actually makes it onto the company cars list.
Image so people consider it as a competitor to the 3 series.
Dynamics so Clarkson tells people it is a competitor to the 3 series.
For me, whether I like it and the review from more than just Clarkson would be used to decide whether I want one. But I'm not the masses. The above are what they need to consider to be able to get the volume sales needed to make money on them.
I think a lot of people are becoming more disillusioned with the lack of vision at BMW and Audi. Jaguar have hit the nail on the head with the XF and can surely do the same with this sector as long as they stick to RWD and major on handling and a bit of luxury without wood.
The X-type suffered because of the old-fashioned looks and Mondeo link. In fairness, I think the X-type looks far better now than it did back then and has aged quite well but I never really wanted one. A Jag in the vein of the Lexus would go down well I think simply because I believe the image of Jag is now far better than it used to be. Just call it the XC or XE.
The X-type suffered because of the old-fashioned looks and Mondeo link. In fairness, I think the X-type looks far better now than it did back then and has aged quite well but I never really wanted one. A Jag in the vein of the Lexus would go down well I think simply because I believe the image of Jag is now far better than it used to be. Just call it the XC or XE.
Baryonyx said:
I really liked the X Type, it looked great and had a good interior and brought a lot of class to the price point. However, I don't think it needed a 4WD system or FWD either, it needed RWD! I think one of the reasons BMW are so popular is because of the driving dynamics offered by the RWD setup, not in spite of them.
Would be interesting if Jag did go RWD now BMW are going 4WD/FWD.A scaled down XF would do very nicely thank you.
It is a strange market though, completely ruled by the tax requirements of the fleet market in this country. If BMW 3 series became FWD and Audis started rattling, they would still sell in the numbers they do because they make so much sense for company car drivers. Jag need to be emissions leaders (I know it's boring, but it's a fact). If they can then make them look good and drive well, so much the better. 100,000 mile warranty would be good too!
It is a strange market though, completely ruled by the tax requirements of the fleet market in this country. If BMW 3 series became FWD and Audis started rattling, they would still sell in the numbers they do because they make so much sense for company car drivers. Jag need to be emissions leaders (I know it's boring, but it's a fact). If they can then make them look good and drive well, so much the better. 100,000 mile warranty would be good too!
I think a large range of engines is key, along with RWD as standard with possibly some 4WD variants.
Lets see;
Diesels first:
2.0 four pot in various states of tune, and a 3.0 V6 (de-tuned XF diesel?)
Petrols:
2.0 fours (n/a and turbo), a 2.5 V6, and a monster 5.0 V8 4WD to take on the RS4/M3 etc.
Remember to offer 4WD with all versions, diesel and petrol, and also offer a stylish estate.
Job done!
Lets see;
Diesels first:
2.0 four pot in various states of tune, and a 3.0 V6 (de-tuned XF diesel?)
Petrols:
2.0 fours (n/a and turbo), a 2.5 V6, and a monster 5.0 V8 4WD to take on the RS4/M3 etc.
Remember to offer 4WD with all versions, diesel and petrol, and also offer a stylish estate.
Job done!
Twincam16 said:
Feeling very positive about this. I'm thinking basically a short-wheelbase XF (easily the best car in it's class), with saloon, estate, XJC-style coupe and XJSC-style cabriolet variants and a range of engines from diesel 'four' to an M3-rivalling 5-litre V8 from the XFR.
Agree..... 
Except, if they are saying, it's at least 4+ years away, the by then next gen M3 won't have a V8, it'll have a twin-turbo inline 6 instead.
I would think a smaller Jag wouldn't have a bigger engine than a V6.... but might get a twin-turbo version
Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 1st February 12:22
They had an articvle in Autoexpress last year on "Jag's new 3 series".
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...
I quite like the look of this
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...
I quite like the look of this
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