cheap synthetic oil
Discussion
Just check the SAE/API specifications against this: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Wilkinson do a good range of cheap but good spec oils.
Wilkinson do a good range of cheap but good spec oils.
The definition of 'synthetic' has been used to sell everything from cheap mineral oil with additives (which are just low-end petroleum basestocks with good marketing), to branded synthetics (more cracked petroleum basestocks with better marketing & additives package), to oils created from synthetic basestocks (i.e. no petroleum base). The cheaper the oil, then the less likely it is to have much (if any) proper synthetic basestock, and it's the synthetic basestock that give the better protection from oxidisation and such.
There was a post by 'oilman' IIRC explaining the differences - and there are some PDFs with more info here and here.
The summary was something like if you want buy cheap oil then buy cheap oil, but don't believe you're getting a proper (non-petroleum-based) synthetic.
So, for example, if you buy a £50/gallon synthetic you might be getting a 100% of the good stuff - and the company might be making £5 profit. If you buy the £10/gallon stuff you might be getting 10% of the good stuff - and the company is still probably making £5 profit.
However, there are some very clever marketing people out there who also know this, and will price there faux-synthetic versions closer to the true-synthetic versions so the buyer is duped into believing they're of a similar quality. As the term 'synthetic' is so elastic, they can get away with simply putting 'synthetic' on the bottle and not explaining the make up of the oil any further.
A bit of internet research should provide you with the technical specification for any oil you wish to research.
There was a post by 'oilman' IIRC explaining the differences - and there are some PDFs with more info here and here.
The summary was something like if you want buy cheap oil then buy cheap oil, but don't believe you're getting a proper (non-petroleum-based) synthetic.
So, for example, if you buy a £50/gallon synthetic you might be getting a 100% of the good stuff - and the company might be making £5 profit. If you buy the £10/gallon stuff you might be getting 10% of the good stuff - and the company is still probably making £5 profit.
However, there are some very clever marketing people out there who also know this, and will price there faux-synthetic versions closer to the true-synthetic versions so the buyer is duped into believing they're of a similar quality. As the term 'synthetic' is so elastic, they can get away with simply putting 'synthetic' on the bottle and not explaining the make up of the oil any further.
A bit of internet research should provide you with the technical specification for any oil you wish to research.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Just check the SAE/API specifications against this: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Wilkinson do a good range of cheap but good spec oils.
Thanks but where in that is Wilkinson? - I dont have a year of my life to fully read it. Here's the type of oilWilkinson do a good range of cheap but good spec oils.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
'Synthetic' when used as a marketing term has no bearing on the oil chemists definition of the same term.
If it was a group 4 synthetic basestock then they'd be plastering their technical data all over the place to prove it. The fact that they don't and I can find no reference to this product anywhere other than on their own website & ebay, probably means that it's just some group 2 or group 3 (if you're lucky) hydro-processed crude with an additives package.
Doesn't mean it will do any harm or that a true synthetic will be better for your requirements, but they know they can charge more if they use the marketing term 'fully synthetic' than if they called it a mineral or semi-synthetic.
If it was a group 4 synthetic basestock then they'd be plastering their technical data all over the place to prove it. The fact that they don't and I can find no reference to this product anywhere other than on their own website & ebay, probably means that it's just some group 2 or group 3 (if you're lucky) hydro-processed crude with an additives package.
Doesn't mean it will do any harm or that a true synthetic will be better for your requirements, but they know they can charge more if they use the marketing term 'fully synthetic' than if they called it a mineral or semi-synthetic.
mmm-five said:
'Synthetic' when used as a marketing term has no bearing on the oil chemists definition of the same term.
If it was a group 4 synthetic basestock then they'd be plastering their technical data all over the place to prove it. The fact that they don't and I can find no reference to this product anywhere other than on their own website & ebay, probably means that it's just some group 2 or group 3 (if you're lucky) hydro-processed crude with an additives package.
Doesn't mean it will do any harm or that a true synthetic will be better for your requirements, but they know they can charge more if they use the marketing term 'fully synthetic' than if they called it a mineral or semi-synthetic.
but how do you know that any of the branded oils are any better?If it was a group 4 synthetic basestock then they'd be plastering their technical data all over the place to prove it. The fact that they don't and I can find no reference to this product anywhere other than on their own website & ebay, probably means that it's just some group 2 or group 3 (if you're lucky) hydro-processed crude with an additives package.
Doesn't mean it will do any harm or that a true synthetic will be better for your requirements, but they know they can charge more if they use the marketing term 'fully synthetic' than if they called it a mineral or semi-synthetic.
Is A3 B3 SL CF relevant?
What happened to duckhams 20W50
saaby93 said:
ut how do you know that any of the branded oils are any better?
Because the branded oils usually have their technical specs - like this for Castrol Edge 5w-30 and these for the rest of their products - available for scrutiny on their websites, or on the websites of their resellers.Drivetec website only has this to say about their oil.
saaby93 said:
Is A3 B3 SL CF relevant?
Those codes are the specifications that the oil meets - ACEA codes (A = petrol, B - diesel, C = catalyst) for European car manufacturers, and API specs from the American Petroleum Institute (SL = petrol, CF = diesel) - the numbers after all of these codes denote the quality of the product, and a higher number can be used in place of a lower one, but not vice versa.saaby93 said:
What happened to duckhams 20W50
Duckhams is owned by BP - who own Castrol. So they're probably just rationalising their portfolio of products, or using different brandnames in different parts of the world.But as I said, I'm not in a position to say whether it's any 'good' for your use or not, as there's no information provided from them.
Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 9th February 21:39
mmm-five knows about that of which he speaks. Lube oils are a potential minefield for the unwary. Always read the specs - no specs - no buy. Also be aware of how those specs are represented. "Approved to.........." and "Meets the requirements of............." are not the same thing. As with virtually everything in life; you pay for what you get but you don't always get what you pay for.
saaby93 said:
So it's A3 that's the relevant number
Where does 3 fit in the scheme of things other than being between 2 and 4
Page 5Where does 3 fit in the scheme of things other than being between 2 and 4
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_0...
saaby93 said:
So it's A3 that's the relevant number
Where does 3 fit in the scheme of things other than being between 2 and 4
Have you checked what your car needs?Where does 3 fit in the scheme of things other than being between 2 and 4
If your car specifies an ACEA grade of A4 or above, then an A3 is no use to you.
Ultimately if you've got a £50 banger it won't make the slight bit of difference and you might as well just leave the oil in that's in there. On the flip-side a £70 group 4 synthetic would be overkill.
Only YOU know what your car manual suggests you use, and only YOU know what specific car you've got and whether it's worth having a look around for a cheaper, cheap synthetic or a similarly priced albeit better semi-synthetic.
saaby93 said:
So it's A3 that's the relevant number
Is 3 good or bad?
If you look at the link I posted above - you will see that those numbers are current and perfectly acceptable for use in any modern car.Is 3 good or bad?
The numbers tell you that the oil meets certain specific requirements. Price is irrelevant.
Wilkinsons is a high street superstore selling all sorts of homewares http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/browse/carmaint?ex=co...
I only mentioned it becasue I have been using their 10W-40 semi-synth for years. £12 for 5 litres.
Puddenchucker said:
doc said:
A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.
Looks pretty general will check service book 
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Wilkinsons is a high street superstore selling all sorts of homewares
I know 
it saw the demise of woolies - no picnmix 
http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/Car-Maintenance/Wilko...
£24 ACEA A3/B3 API SL CF another A3/B3
ETA 5 litres
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 5th March 11:21
saaby93 said:
I know it saw the demise of woolies - no picnmix
http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/Car-Maintenance/Wilko...
£24 ACEA A3/B3 API SL CF another A3/B3
The specs are fine, but it's a thinner oil (5w). Depends what your manual says. Most cars with hydraulic valve lifters needs a thinner oil. it saw the demise of woolies - no picnmix http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/Car-Maintenance/Wilko...
£24 ACEA A3/B3 API SL CF another A3/B3
Wilkinsons have a pick n' mix
Wilko's 10w40 for £11.98 - again no specific technical details, so likely to be from the same source and many other 'own brand' oils.
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