Theoretically, what car for teenage PH’er son?
Discussion
So, theoretically, what car do you buy your teenage PH’er son who has just passed his test.
Obviously, of prime importance is your sons safety, so you don’t put him in anything too powerful (see tragic tale of ‘son borrows dads M5 and take 4 mates for a high speed run along a runway’ for reasons why), but on the other hand, overtaking will almost certainly feature in his driving repertoire soon enough, and the less TED (Time exposed to danger) in an overtake, the better. For this, you need a bit of performance, the more the better you might argue. But will that just make him more likely to try more marginal overtakes? Or do you put them in something that has absolutely no hope of overtaking anything so that he won’t even try?
How about a semi powerful engine, but gearbox changed/modified to suit, so that the car won't do any more than 50-60mph (I'm aware even those speeds can produced a serious enough accident) but has very quick acceleration?
Do you fit the car with a full roll cage and 5 point harnesses? Remove all sound deadening so that it sounds/feels faster than it is? Remove rear seats on the principle less people in the car -> less people to show off to? Or will all of these things just make him think he is in a racing car and drive accordingly?
Do you spend money on improving his car control with some quality tuition, or will this make him even more confident and feel pressured into showing off his super-duper driving skills to his mates? “Watch THIS!....”
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Obviously, of prime importance is your sons safety, so you don’t put him in anything too powerful (see tragic tale of ‘son borrows dads M5 and take 4 mates for a high speed run along a runway’ for reasons why), but on the other hand, overtaking will almost certainly feature in his driving repertoire soon enough, and the less TED (Time exposed to danger) in an overtake, the better. For this, you need a bit of performance, the more the better you might argue. But will that just make him more likely to try more marginal overtakes? Or do you put them in something that has absolutely no hope of overtaking anything so that he won’t even try?
How about a semi powerful engine, but gearbox changed/modified to suit, so that the car won't do any more than 50-60mph (I'm aware even those speeds can produced a serious enough accident) but has very quick acceleration?
Do you fit the car with a full roll cage and 5 point harnesses? Remove all sound deadening so that it sounds/feels faster than it is? Remove rear seats on the principle less people in the car -> less people to show off to? Or will all of these things just make him think he is in a racing car and drive accordingly?
Do you spend money on improving his car control with some quality tuition, or will this make him even more confident and feel pressured into showing off his super-duper driving skills to his mates? “Watch THIS!....”
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Never been fortunate enough to have my first car purchased for me (The Sperm Donor and I don't get along) and I'll never have kids of my own it's not actually something I've ever given any real thought to, until my 18 year old sister decided that she now wants a car of her own (this in no small part due to her big sister being gifted a car by our gran), after plenty of research and imposed 3k budget we've settled on..... a Peugeot 206 1.4XT estate.
Not as crazy as it sounds,
One. It can cope with the motorways (even if it does need to be worked maybe a little hard for overtaking).
Two. Copes more than admirably with the usual teen paraphernalia and associated friends.
Three. Reasonably economical and cheap to maintain.
Four. Surprisingly cheap to insure for a new driver, we've managed to get her fully comp with one of those girly insurers for sub 1k
General rule of thumb IMO, think out of the box.
Not as crazy as it sounds,
One. It can cope with the motorways (even if it does need to be worked maybe a little hard for overtaking).
Two. Copes more than admirably with the usual teen paraphernalia and associated friends.
Three. Reasonably economical and cheap to maintain.
Four. Surprisingly cheap to insure for a new driver, we've managed to get her fully comp with one of those girly insurers for sub 1k
General rule of thumb IMO, think out of the box.
The OP is suggesting lots of modifications which surely every insurer is going to take you/your son to the cleaners for.
The idea of a speed limiter (other than gearing) is interesting, although you would want it somehow insurance approved to keep that cost down.
Did any insurers persevere with the blackbox option for young drivers, where premiums are significantly lower if a box is installed in their car to make sure they don't drive late at night?
A landrover has some good advantages (slow and thirsty) but one obvious big disadvantage - crash/roll safety.
The idea of a speed limiter (other than gearing) is interesting, although you would want it somehow insurance approved to keep that cost down.
Did any insurers persevere with the blackbox option for young drivers, where premiums are significantly lower if a box is installed in their car to make sure they don't drive late at night?
A landrover has some good advantages (slow and thirsty) but one obvious big disadvantage - crash/roll safety.
Why dont you double whatever he can raise to put towards a car? I saved up £1500 towards my first car when I was at college working weekends for some wheels. There's nothing more satisfying than driving a car that you have worked and paid for your self. As for choices just the usual choices of Fiesta's, 106's, Saxos', Clio's etc. It will probably get a knock or a scrape anyway being a first car.
No matter what you buy him, he'll most likely drive it as fast as possible.
Something like a Ford Fiesta 1.25 or a Peugeot 106 1.1 would be my choice if I was in the same boat.
Neither are fast enough to cause any major bother and they are entertaining at lower speeds so don't require you to drive them silly speeds to enjoy them.
Plus there are plenty of spares about if he does have a prang.
If you want him to have something with a bit of poke and don't mind him having a diesel, a Peugeot 306 D Turbo is worth a mention, this was my first car. Again it won't set the world alight with its performance, but was fun to drive and had enough oomph to overtake safely.
Something like a Ford Fiesta 1.25 or a Peugeot 106 1.1 would be my choice if I was in the same boat.
Neither are fast enough to cause any major bother and they are entertaining at lower speeds so don't require you to drive them silly speeds to enjoy them.
Plus there are plenty of spares about if he does have a prang.
If you want him to have something with a bit of poke and don't mind him having a diesel, a Peugeot 306 D Turbo is worth a mention, this was my first car. Again it won't set the world alight with its performance, but was fun to drive and had enough oomph to overtake safely.
Agricultural 4x4. My first car was a Suzuki SJ.
Slow - he'll learn he needs a huge gap to overtake, I swear it's why I *still* give myself too much room.
High C of G - he'll learn to make progress he has to be smooth.
Noisy - his mates won't make him designated driver if they want any form of conversation (tho I did get 6 in the SJ once, ahem)
Good ground clearance - he'll bounce off kerbs / small walls etc.
Built like meccano - anything he does bend / break can be unbolted / replaced.
Slow - he'll learn he needs a huge gap to overtake, I swear it's why I *still* give myself too much room.
High C of G - he'll learn to make progress he has to be smooth.
Noisy - his mates won't make him designated driver if they want any form of conversation (tho I did get 6 in the SJ once, ahem)
Good ground clearance - he'll bounce off kerbs / small walls etc.
Built like meccano - anything he does bend / break can be unbolted / replaced.
Something with Group 1 insurance, which he pays for himself. So a Fiat panda or suchlike - low on power, but decent handling and he will learn to drive properly when he understands the importance of maintaining momentum.
Failing that, something low-powered that can go on a limited mileage classic-car policy - an old mini or an MG Midget. Again, he will be a better driver for having driven one of these, than if he just nails the throttle and mashes the brakes between every corner.
Failing that, something low-powered that can go on a limited mileage classic-car policy - an old mini or an MG Midget. Again, he will be a better driver for having driven one of these, than if he just nails the throttle and mashes the brakes between every corner.
braddo said:
The OP is putting forward for discussion the idea of lots of modifications
EFA
Interesting thoughts, and general consensus for the Land Rover ties in with something I had considered, perhaps buying a 'project car' when son is 14/15 and spending a couple of years doing it up in readiness for his 17th.
Other benefits include the possibility of classic insurance, and also the fact that they might actually like/want to drive it. (a 4 year old Volvo V70 estate might not have the same appeal)
What about the tuition aspect? - any thoughts on whether it is a good thing, or, on balance, more likely to backfire?
Soovy said:
Land Rover. Tough, safe, slow, and chicks dig them
Really?Safe I wouldn't say so, they are made of Ally so not a lot of crash protection, especially side on, to be honest unless you hit something dead on a chassis rail I can't see a Landy offering that much protection, nothing on the side that will offer anything for side impact, no air bags in a Defender, you are sat in a cramped position on a seat that doesn't exactly bolt in properly, I certainly wouldn't want to roll one either, it would just crumple, there is no support in the roof, especially around the front compartment area, the windscreen frame wont with stand much
Tough, again, wouldn't say so mine would just break as you drove down the road, the transmission and drive line isn't renowned for being robust, eat half shafts, I have been through two prop shafts on mine.
Chicks dig them? Really? My gf hates mine for pretty much the same reason I hate mine, it is slow, noisy, smelly, uncomfortable, and if it is raining really hard you just get wet from somewhere, I honestly can't find anything appealing about them nor do I know any girl that likes mine, it isn't a bad looking truck either, but they have no redeeming features
Have you owned or used a Defender for a long period of time? As the novelty soon wears off quite quickly, I can't wait to put mine up for sale, I bought mine for a purpose which I will no longer need it for, well actually I haven't used mine since November.
Edit: fixed picture to represent the point that a Defender is not a safe vehicle
Edited by pits on Friday 11th February 17:46
monthefish said:
So, theoretically, what car do you buy your teenage PH’er son who has just passed his test.
Obviously, of prime importance is your sons safety, so you don’t put him in anything too powerful (see tragic tale of ‘son borrows dads M5 and take 4 mates for a high speed run along a runway’ for reasons why), but on the other hand, overtaking will almost certainly feature in his driving repertoire soon enough, and the less TED (Time exposed to danger) in an overtake, the better. For this, you need a bit of performance, the more the better you might argue. But will that just make him more likely to try more marginal overtakes? Or do you put them in something that has absolutely no hope of overtaking anything so that he won’t even try?
How about a semi powerful engine, but gearbox changed/modified to suit, so that the car won't do any more than 50-60mph (I'm aware even those speeds can produced a serious enough accident) but has very quick acceleration?
Do you fit the car with a full roll cage and 5 point harnesses? Remove all sound deadening so that it sounds/feels faster than it is? Remove rear seats on the principle less people in the car -> less people to show off to? Or will all of these things just make him think he is in a racing car and drive accordingly?
Do you spend money on improving his car control with some quality tuition, or will this make him even more confident and feel pressured into showing off his super-duper driving skills to his mates? “Watch THIS!....”
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Land Rover Defender or a classic like an MBG, spridget or Spitfire. Obviously, of prime importance is your sons safety, so you don’t put him in anything too powerful (see tragic tale of ‘son borrows dads M5 and take 4 mates for a high speed run along a runway’ for reasons why), but on the other hand, overtaking will almost certainly feature in his driving repertoire soon enough, and the less TED (Time exposed to danger) in an overtake, the better. For this, you need a bit of performance, the more the better you might argue. But will that just make him more likely to try more marginal overtakes? Or do you put them in something that has absolutely no hope of overtaking anything so that he won’t even try?
How about a semi powerful engine, but gearbox changed/modified to suit, so that the car won't do any more than 50-60mph (I'm aware even those speeds can produced a serious enough accident) but has very quick acceleration?
Do you fit the car with a full roll cage and 5 point harnesses? Remove all sound deadening so that it sounds/feels faster than it is? Remove rear seats on the principle less people in the car -> less people to show off to? Or will all of these things just make him think he is in a racing car and drive accordingly?
Do you spend money on improving his car control with some quality tuition, or will this make him even more confident and feel pressured into showing off his super-duper driving skills to his mates? “Watch THIS!....”
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Ricky_M said:
No matter what you buy him, he'll most likely drive it as fast as possible..
Ricky_M said:
Something like a Ford Fiesta 1.25 or a Peugeot 106 1.1 would be my choice if I was in the same boat.
MrWest90 said:
the usual choices of Fiesta's, 106's, Saxos', Clio's etc.
Andehh said:
Classic mini, street cred, learns about cars, slow, cheap...etc etc
The concern with all of these is one of safety in an impact. Even the mini with full roll cage and 5 point harnesses, doesn;t have much of a crumple zone to lessen an impact. Generally speaking, a roughly equivalent age Volvo would be safer in most impacts. (not suggesting an old Volvo - Yes, I've seen the 5th gear test)
MrWest90 said:
Why dont you double whatever he can raise to put towards a car?
My son is under 5, so not much at the moment!! (but the principle is a good one)pits said:
Really?
Safe I wouldn't say so, they are made of Ally so not a lot of crash protection, especially side on, to be honest unless you hit something dead on a chassis rail I can't see a Landy offering that much protection, nothing on the side that will offer anything for side impact, no air bags in a Defender, you are sat in a cramped position on a seat that doesn't exactly bolt in properly, I certainly wouldn't want to roll one either, it would just crumple, there is no support in the roof, especially around the front compartment area, the windscreen frame wont with stand much
[img]http://nicholasbooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/crash_defender.jpg[/img}
Tough, again, wouldn't say so mine would just break as you drove down the road, the transmission and drive line isn't renowned for being robust, eat half shafts, I have been through two prop shafts on mine.
Chicks dig them? Really? My gf hates mine for pretty much the same reason I hate mine, it is slow, noisy, smelly, uncomfortable, and if it is raining really hard you just get wet from somewhere, I honestly can't find anything appealing about them nor do I know any girl that likes mine, it isn't a bad looking truck either, but they have no redeeming features
Have you owned or used a Defender for a long period of time? As the novelty soon wears off quite quickly, I can't wait to put mine up for sale, I bought mine for a purpose which I will no longer need it for, well actually I haven't used mine since November.
Safe I wouldn't say so, they are made of Ally so not a lot of crash protection, especially side on, to be honest unless you hit something dead on a chassis rail I can't see a Landy offering that much protection, nothing on the side that will offer anything for side impact, no air bags in a Defender, you are sat in a cramped position on a seat that doesn't exactly bolt in properly, I certainly wouldn't want to roll one either, it would just crumple, there is no support in the roof, especially around the front compartment area, the windscreen frame wont with stand much
[img]http://nicholasbooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/crash_defender.jpg[/img}
Tough, again, wouldn't say so mine would just break as you drove down the road, the transmission and drive line isn't renowned for being robust, eat half shafts, I have been through two prop shafts on mine.
Chicks dig them? Really? My gf hates mine for pretty much the same reason I hate mine, it is slow, noisy, smelly, uncomfortable, and if it is raining really hard you just get wet from somewhere, I honestly can't find anything appealing about them nor do I know any girl that likes mine, it isn't a bad looking truck either, but they have no redeeming features
Have you owned or used a Defender for a long period of time? As the novelty soon wears off quite quickly, I can't wait to put mine up for sale, I bought mine for a purpose which I will no longer need it for, well actually I haven't used mine since November.
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