Buying a new car - does it have to be painful?
Discussion
Bought a new car at the weekend for a family member - God, why is it such hard work? 
Took literally 3 hours from sitting down with the salesman (and about 5 "support" staff) and it would have been longer if I hadn't told the insurance guy to bugger off. Most of it they're working really hard to sell various insurance packages and finance. I let them talk about this stuff for a bit thinking it might help the deal but even when I dismissed them they still mithered about finance and GAP.
I hear some people wander around dealers every weekend, but why the heck would you do this for fun? Seriously, if the process was easier, I'd change cars more often. I actually said this to the sales manger and he said it can be easy..…if you just pay the price we ask!
Took literally 3 hours from sitting down with the salesman (and about 5 "support" staff) and it would have been longer if I hadn't told the insurance guy to bugger off. Most of it they're working really hard to sell various insurance packages and finance. I let them talk about this stuff for a bit thinking it might help the deal but even when I dismissed them they still mithered about finance and GAP.
I hear some people wander around dealers every weekend, but why the heck would you do this for fun? Seriously, if the process was easier, I'd change cars more often. I actually said this to the sales manger and he said it can be easy..…if you just pay the price we ask!
Most of the finance and insurance talk comes from FSA regulations which require each customer to be offered each applicable product, a disclaimer is usually required that you've been offered the product but declined it.
A customer at one of the dealers I used to work for bought a used car, declined GAP insurance and signed to that effect, drove out of the dealership, a mile down the road crashed it fairly spectacularly writing it off and then had a no-win no-fee solicitor try to sue the dealership for the difference in value between what her insurers offered her and what she'd paid. Only the signed declaration that she'd been offered GAP (RTI in this case) but declined it saved the dealership the cost.
A customer at one of the dealers I used to work for bought a used car, declined GAP insurance and signed to that effect, drove out of the dealership, a mile down the road crashed it fairly spectacularly writing it off and then had a no-win no-fee solicitor try to sue the dealership for the difference in value between what her insurers offered her and what she'd paid. Only the signed declaration that she'd been offered GAP (RTI in this case) but declined it saved the dealership the cost.
Deva Link said:
Bought a new car at the weekend for a family member - God, why is it such hard work?
Took literally 3 hours from sitting down with the salesman (and about 5 "support" staff) and it would have been longer if I hadn't told the insurance guy to bugger off. Most of it they're working really hard to sell various insurance packages and finance. I let them talk about this stuff for a bit thinking it might help the deal but even when I dismissed them they still mithered about finance and GAP.
I hear some people wander around dealers every weekend, but why the heck would you do this for fun? Seriously, if the process was easier, I'd change cars more often. I actually said this to the sales manger and he said it can be easy..…if you just pay the price we ask!
You should try it from this side of the desk! Took literally 3 hours from sitting down with the salesman (and about 5 "support" staff) and it would have been longer if I hadn't told the insurance guy to bugger off. Most of it they're working really hard to sell various insurance packages and finance. I let them talk about this stuff for a bit thinking it might help the deal but even when I dismissed them they still mithered about finance and GAP.
I hear some people wander around dealers every weekend, but why the heck would you do this for fun? Seriously, if the process was easier, I'd change cars more often. I actually said this to the sales manger and he said it can be easy..…if you just pay the price we ask!
1. Sales Process i.e. name, address, etc, test drive, Part ex value.
2. FSA paperwork
3. Sell the car
4. Finance? Various quotes then proposal, paperwork and proof of ID.
5. Gap insurance? Total Loss or Finance? Value?
6. Extended Warranty?
7. Paint protection product? E.g. Supagard
8. MoT Insurance?
9. Mishap Insurance? (covers kerbed alloys, wrong fuel etc)
10. Paperwork.
As the motor trade has tried to secure additional sources of income the sale of the car has actually become a starting point to offer all these other products. In the main they are good products but it begins to feel like a circus act.
In addition the difference in price can be substantial, easily over £1,000 without including interest. Many of the big dealers now include all of these products assumptively and then remove them as you haggle out a deal. In many cases you leave thinking you have negotiated a substantial discount when really they have only removed the products you didn't ask for in the first place.
2 hours is about the norm from meeting a customer to them leaving with 1/2 a ream of paper.
As for the team of support staff this is again large chain mentality. More often than not the sales person is little more than a runner moving between the customer and a sales controller. When the point of negotiation is reached the controller and finance salesman will generally get involved. If they struggle to secure your deal the sales manager is trotted out.
I'm glad I work in a small garage!
markcjd said:
You should try it from this side of the desk!
1. Sales Process i.e. name, address, etc, test drive, Part ex value.
2. FSA paperwork
3. Sell the car
4. Finance? Various quotes then proposal, paperwork and proof of ID.
5. Gap insurance? Total Loss or Finance? Value?
6. Extended Warranty?
7. Paint protection product? E.g. Supagard
8. MoT Insurance?
9. Mishap Insurance? (covers kerbed alloys, wrong fuel etc)
10. Paperwork.
As the motor trade has tried to secure additional sources of income the sale of the car has actually become a starting point to offer all these other products. In the main they are good products but it begins to feel like a circus act.
In addition the difference in price can be substantial, easily over £1,000 without including interest. Many of the big dealers now include all of these products assumptively and then remove them as you haggle out a deal. In many cases you leave thinking you have negotiated a substantial discount when really they have only removed the products you didn't ask for in the first place.
2 hours is about the norm from meeting a customer to them leaving with 1/2 a ream of paper.
As for the team of support staff this is again large chain mentality. More often than not the sales person is little more than a runner moving between the customer and a sales controller. When the point of negotiation is reached the controller and finance salesman will generally get involved. If they struggle to secure your deal the sales manager is trotted out.
I'm glad I work in a small garage!
Me too....Had a customer in the other day who said a large chain had tried to charge them an "admin fee"!1. Sales Process i.e. name, address, etc, test drive, Part ex value.
2. FSA paperwork
3. Sell the car
4. Finance? Various quotes then proposal, paperwork and proof of ID.
5. Gap insurance? Total Loss or Finance? Value?
6. Extended Warranty?
7. Paint protection product? E.g. Supagard
8. MoT Insurance?
9. Mishap Insurance? (covers kerbed alloys, wrong fuel etc)
10. Paperwork.
As the motor trade has tried to secure additional sources of income the sale of the car has actually become a starting point to offer all these other products. In the main they are good products but it begins to feel like a circus act.
In addition the difference in price can be substantial, easily over £1,000 without including interest. Many of the big dealers now include all of these products assumptively and then remove them as you haggle out a deal. In many cases you leave thinking you have negotiated a substantial discount when really they have only removed the products you didn't ask for in the first place.
2 hours is about the norm from meeting a customer to them leaving with 1/2 a ream of paper.
As for the team of support staff this is again large chain mentality. More often than not the sales person is little more than a runner moving between the customer and a sales controller. When the point of negotiation is reached the controller and finance salesman will generally get involved. If they struggle to secure your deal the sales manager is trotted out.
I'm glad I work in a small garage!
Wonder how many customer put up with that!
POORCARDEALER said:
Me too....Had a customer in the other day who said a large chain had tried to charge them an "admin fee"!
Wonder how many customer put up with that!
I've heard of that too, also a charge to clean the vehicle and a warranty registration charge! One of the local franchised dealers is charging metallic paint at £765 when the list price is £535. It lets you see how they manage to achieve the headline offer prices though.Wonder how many customer put up with that!
markcjd said:
I've heard of that too, also a charge to clean the vehicle and a warranty registration charge! One of the local franchised dealers is charging metallic paint at £765 when the list price is £535. It lets you see how they manage to achieve the headline offer prices though.
When I worked at Dixon Motors the company offered Ford Kas at 4995 brand new, they stood us 5100. The metallic charge was the only thing that made a deal worth doing if there was no finance or products in the deal.the sad thing is these days is that if you don't entertain the salesmen when he is going on about GAP/Supaguard etc etc they soon lose interest in trying to sell to you!!! as they know that their cut of the deal is in the £500 GAP cover and Autoglym @ £300 or Supaguard @ £250 etc etc. If you tell them from the start that you don't want any of the add ons just the car the only way they can make cash then is by the finance - if you dont need finance then you will probably be asked to leave!!! 
the days of a modern dealership i'm afraid - a friend of mine has a few dealerships and they only way he makes cash is from these add ons and a part ex if there is one - no part ex and no add ons doesn't even pay for the coffee you have drunk whilst choosing the car. Is the internet to blame? More transperency and people able to advertise their cars cheaply and to a worldwide audience? i dunno but car dealerships need to adapt as people are now finding out that the £500 GAP cover in the dealership can be bought for £100 on line - they need to think of something else fast.....
the days of a modern dealership i'm afraid - a friend of mine has a few dealerships and they only way he makes cash is from these add ons and a part ex if there is one - no part ex and no add ons doesn't even pay for the coffee you have drunk whilst choosing the car. Is the internet to blame? More transperency and people able to advertise their cars cheaply and to a worldwide audience? i dunno but car dealerships need to adapt as people are now finding out that the £500 GAP cover in the dealership can be bought for £100 on line - they need to think of something else fast.....Not sure what you're doing wrong. Both new cars I bought recently were done during lunch hour, had time to eat lunch, and time for a test drive.
The Hyundai was the best, straight in, out for a spin, back, told the saleman wanted cash sale, no insurance bulls
t, sign the dotted line, collected the car two days later paying by debit card.
The Hyundai was the best, straight in, out for a spin, back, told the saleman wanted cash sale, no insurance bulls
t, sign the dotted line, collected the car two days later paying by debit card. I absolutely hate buying cars (which is a problem as I love driving them - obviously
) but the last car I bought was from a main dealer and was a dream.
As I hate the process I go in fully armed (all research done previously) and know what car I want to look at.(end up knowing more than them!). Salesman was great and was also no-nonsense and no bullst.
Looked at car - car was as described.
Test drove car - all good.
part ex offered - I wanted 1700 he offered 1350. Met at 1500.
Finance sorted with minimum fuss.
Add ons offered but rebuffed - no hard sell.
All done in an hour.
) but the last car I bought was from a main dealer and was a dream.As I hate the process I go in fully armed (all research done previously) and know what car I want to look at.(end up knowing more than them!). Salesman was great and was also no-nonsense and no bulls
t.Looked at car - car was as described.
Test drove car - all good.
part ex offered - I wanted 1700 he offered 1350. Met at 1500.
Finance sorted with minimum fuss.
Add ons offered but rebuffed - no hard sell.
All done in an hour.
POORCARDEALER said:
markmullen said:
What has knackered the motor trade is the same disease which has spoilt many different markets, consumers being focussed solely on price as the major deciding factor, not value, quality, service or anything else, just price.
Couldnt agree more!
markmullen said:
What has knackered the motor trade is the same disease which has spoilt many different markets, consumers being focussed solely on price as the major deciding factor, not value, quality, service or anything else, just price.
Maybe, but I've heard a lot to suggest the big dealer networks probably push their sales staff too much on price, so they are selling on the basis of trying to get as much commission from as many products as possible, the man on the floor probably doesn't have time to provide the great value, quality service he might want to as his boss is breathing down his neck.In the past week or two I've been in two LR, a Volvo, a Honda and a BMW dealership, and spent at least 30 minutes in each - the BMW dealership was the only one where I was even acknowledged, the other 4 I maaged to walk around and climb all over their cars without so much as a hello - will I buy from them, no, why should I with no service whatoever - I'll probably buy at a distance over the phone/internet and in such cases the dealer that offers best price will win my custom, as I won't ever go back for servicing or aftersales.
FWIW the chap at BMW was excellent, attentive without being overbearing, knew his product, without even mentioning price or costs at all I'd be comfortable buying from him and paying a little bit more for the good service.
Mastiff said:
POORCARDEALER said:
markmullen said:
What has knackered the motor trade is the same disease which has spoilt many different markets, consumers being focussed solely on price as the major deciding factor, not value, quality, service or anything else, just price.
Couldnt agree more!Often the sales people are fine and do a reasonable/good job that the customers are happy with. Unfortunately customers only see these people when they conclude a deal. It's the service departments that the customers have most dealings with, get stitched up by, get poor service from and really rate the dealerships/cars by.
All the salesmans hard work is undone by this, customers then get jaundiced to the sales patter and end up focusing on just price.
What I can never understand is why many dealers invest so much in the sales process/showrooms etc just to have their reputation messed up and judged by poorly run service departments.
All IMHO of course !
Mastiff said:
POORCARDEALER said:
markmullen said:
What has knackered the motor trade is the same disease which has spoilt many different markets, consumers being focussed solely on price as the major deciding factor, not value, quality, service or anything else, just price.
Couldnt agree more!Not a brand new car as such but i just bought a Audi estate from a local indy garage at the weekend and it was an complete pleasure. In and out within an hour, offered extras etc but asked once and moved on. Car was handed over with all the minor bits sorted as agreed with no fuss.
I've got renewed optimism about Traders - there are ones out there that give good/swift service. I know now why these guys have been around donkeys years.
I've got renewed optimism about Traders - there are ones out there that give good/swift service. I know now why these guys have been around donkeys years.
markmullen said:
When I worked at Dixon Motors the company offered Ford Kas at 4995 brand new, they stood us 5100. The metallic charge was the only thing that made a deal worth doing if there was no finance or products in the deal.
My missus bought one of those Ford Ka's at just shy of £5k from our local Ford dealer a few years back.. was a great deal for a no frills car but no wonder they wouldn't shift on the price or throw in anything! We went for the absolute base / poverty spec! 
I have a dealer I use regularly, and the sales proccess goes like this:
Have you got a xxx available?
Yes.
Okay I will pay £x for it, when can I collect it?
Thursday okay?
Thanks.
Mind you their jaguar partners got a severe blocking from the dealer principal. They completely ignored all of my questions about a new XKR, so I walked out. The dealer principal was told, big appologies were offered, as he knows I am very impulsive. Another case of just because he looks young and scruffy does not mean that I am a joker.
Have you got a xxx available?
Yes.
Okay I will pay £x for it, when can I collect it?
Thursday okay?
Thanks.
Mind you their jaguar partners got a severe blocking from the dealer principal. They completely ignored all of my questions about a new XKR, so I walked out. The dealer principal was told, big appologies were offered, as he knows I am very impulsive. Another case of just because he looks young and scruffy does not mean that I am a joker.
markmullen said:
Most of the finance and insurance talk comes from FSA regulations which require each customer to be offered each applicable product, a disclaimer is usually required that you've been offered the product but declined it.
The issue I find is the garages use the FSA regulations as a method of making you sit through EVERYTHING, and sign various check forms as to what you dont need, when in reality the FSA regulations say if you are being sold something then they need to follow protocol and explain it properly. They turn it around to go through every damn offering they have. Does my nut.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff