Saving a Lotus Elan
Discussion
There's an old fella near me who's had a Lotus Elan Plus 2 (I think) sitting on his drive for as long as I can remember. It was there when I was 10, and it's still there now, which is a shame considering I'm now 24.
He's done absolutely nothing with it. It's not moved once. However! Despite being sat in the rain and all other conditions for probably a couple of decades, it still looks like it could be restored. It's not yet covered in green stuff, the bumpers and fittings are still attached, and apart from deflated tyres, the wheels look ok as well. I'll try and snap a pic sometime today, but until then:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
It's not just the Lotus though. He's also got that Vauxhall Corsa in the drive as well. It's been kept in much the same way. Until a couple of years ago he had a Skoda Fesomethingorother and an Octavia sat around doing nothing, but someone turned up and had those off him. Can't help but wonder what's in the garage
Looks like he's a hoarder, but he can be persuaded... so what's the likelihood of getting him to part with the Elan? My financial situation is, frankly, bad, so if I couldn't get it for a few thousand it'd be game over, but for someone with the time and cash to restore it it could a great find. He's not using it, he's not restoring it, and its just being left to rot.
So how do I approach this? Do I reel my neck in and stop being such a nosy git? Or do I go for it and see if the guy would be willing to part with his all but abandoned car?
He's done absolutely nothing with it. It's not moved once. However! Despite being sat in the rain and all other conditions for probably a couple of decades, it still looks like it could be restored. It's not yet covered in green stuff, the bumpers and fittings are still attached, and apart from deflated tyres, the wheels look ok as well. I'll try and snap a pic sometime today, but until then:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
It's not just the Lotus though. He's also got that Vauxhall Corsa in the drive as well. It's been kept in much the same way. Until a couple of years ago he had a Skoda Fesomethingorother and an Octavia sat around doing nothing, but someone turned up and had those off him. Can't help but wonder what's in the garage
Looks like he's a hoarder, but he can be persuaded... so what's the likelihood of getting him to part with the Elan? My financial situation is, frankly, bad, so if I couldn't get it for a few thousand it'd be game over, but for someone with the time and cash to restore it it could a great find. He's not using it, he's not restoring it, and its just being left to rot.
So how do I approach this? Do I reel my neck in and stop being such a nosy git? Or do I go for it and see if the guy would be willing to part with his all but abandoned car?
Leave a classic Lotus sat for anything than a fortnight and it will develop a problem - multiply that by 2 decades and youve got a whole load of trouble in a fiberglass nightmare!
Funny how streetmaps didnt blur the Elans plate - can anyone tell if its an S or not? I'm thinking it might be based on the wheels.
Funny how streetmaps didnt blur the Elans plate - can anyone tell if its an S or not? I'm thinking it might be based on the wheels.
On the other hand....
If you can get him to part with it for a sensible sum (£2.5K ish), there's a healthy profit to be made in breaking them... people will pay £1K+ for the bodyshell in pretty much any state, for the Spyder Zetec conversions, and various other components like engine and gearbox will fetch a healthy price, particularly if it is an S130 (Sprint spec.) engine on Webers - if it's a Stromberg engine it's much less desirable.
If you can get him to part with it for a sensible sum (£2.5K ish), there's a healthy profit to be made in breaking them... people will pay £1K+ for the bodyshell in pretty much any state, for the Spyder Zetec conversions, and various other components like engine and gearbox will fetch a healthy price, particularly if it is an S130 (Sprint spec.) engine on Webers - if it's a Stromberg engine it's much less desirable.
So general consensus is that it would be a horror show then 
There's no way to have a look round the back without walking up the guys drive, so that's not really an option. Not in daylight, at least. I suspect that if he did accept an offer of anything, there probably wouldn't be much scope for poking around under the bonnet beforehand to see if it was worth breaking as well.
And, as olly has already said... just because I haven't seen it happen, it doesn't mean no one else has gone and asked to buy it off him!
There's no way to have a look round the back without walking up the guys drive, so that's not really an option. Not in daylight, at least
. I suspect that if he did accept an offer of anything, there probably wouldn't be much scope for poking around under the bonnet beforehand to see if it was worth breaking as well.And, as olly has already said... just because I haven't seen it happen, it doesn't mean no one else has gone and asked to buy it off him!
On the surface, this will sound 'wrong', but bear with me.
You want an Elan, but you're a bit hard-up. Spending shed-money on an Elan will bankrupt you.
However, track down one of these and you can have a good one for shed money:
Scimitar SS1.
Backbone chassis copied from the original Elan, but blessedly galvanised post-'84.
Similarly-sized, similarly Ford-based 1.6-litre engine producing performance comparable to an Elan.
Same goes for the suspension.
Granted, it's not a 'real Lotus', it doesn't have a Lotus badge or Ron Hickman styling and the interior is a mixture of Ford Fiesta and Austin Metro, but for the Elan-style enjoyment you'll get out £1k's-worth of SS1 as opposed to £1k's-worth of immobile Elan that'll take predictably exotic money to recomission, if you're a bit hard-up and want an Elan, look no further than the SS1.
You want an Elan, but you're a bit hard-up. Spending shed-money on an Elan will bankrupt you.
However, track down one of these and you can have a good one for shed money:
Scimitar SS1.
Backbone chassis copied from the original Elan, but blessedly galvanised post-'84.
Similarly-sized, similarly Ford-based 1.6-litre engine producing performance comparable to an Elan.
Same goes for the suspension.
Granted, it's not a 'real Lotus', it doesn't have a Lotus badge or Ron Hickman styling and the interior is a mixture of Ford Fiesta and Austin Metro, but for the Elan-style enjoyment you'll get out £1k's-worth of SS1 as opposed to £1k's-worth of immobile Elan that'll take predictably exotic money to recomission, if you're a bit hard-up and want an Elan, look no further than the SS1.
Not saying the info here is wrong. Certainly expensive to restore, but. Is it really so bad? The chassis could still be ok. Most everything else too. Not everything has to be concourse perfect or restored for use. What ever happened to the idea of rolling restorations?
That Elan looks good enough to drive. Nothing wrong with a scruffy Elan in my book. Probably one of the best cars you'll ever drive. Who cares it's scruffy when enjoying one. I'd give it a two and half grand punt. Take my chances readying for MOT. Using it, working on, as you go along. If it turned out too much for such an effort, money back selling wouldn't be a problem. Might even make good profit on two and half grand.
Knock on the door. I would.
That Elan looks good enough to drive. Nothing wrong with a scruffy Elan in my book. Probably one of the best cars you'll ever drive. Who cares it's scruffy when enjoying one. I'd give it a two and half grand punt. Take my chances readying for MOT. Using it, working on, as you go along. If it turned out too much for such an effort, money back selling wouldn't be a problem. Might even make good profit on two and half grand.
Knock on the door. I would.
olly22n said:
Sam_68 said:
if it's a Stromberg engine it's much less desirable.
Oi!
...but I stand by my statement:
My first 2-seater Elan, which I loved to bits, was on Strombergs so I'm aware of both the advantages (better fuel economy and better torque spread, which gives comparable acceleration to the 'standard' Sprint, when set up properly), but I'm also aware of the shortcomings (limited tuning potential, chronic carburettor icing problems in certain atmospheric conditions, maintenance/parts issues like the propenstity for worn/leaking throttle spindles, etc).
And regardless of my opinion, the market has spoken... they're simply not worth as much. Fine if you find the right car, at the right price, but not so desirable if you were planning to buy something with the specific intention of breaking for spares.
Slade Alive said:
Is it really so bad?
Probably, yes.Slade Alive said:
The chassis could still be ok. Most everything else too.
That would be why it hasn't moved for the last 14 years, then? 
... and the bits that were still in good working condition 14 years ago almost certainly aren't any longer.
It might (however unlikely) be some sort of fluke with the majority of major components in good order, but if you have the knowledge and ability to make that assessment, then you wouldn't be needing to ask the question on here.
WhoseGeneration said:
Or. perhaps OP could be ultruistic and post this on a Lotus forum where there might be someone with the desire and means to restore.
Fair point - he might even find someone equally altruistic who is willing to inspect the car for him and give an unbiased opinion...LotusElan.net is where you want to be.
Sam_68 said:
That would be why it hasn't moved for the last 14 years, then?
Is there any need for sarcasm? It may well have had a new chassis 15 years ago. Maybe the owner polishes it like his nob - everyday. Who knows? Or maybe the owner Waxoyld it years ago and does so every year when no one is looking.
Sam_68 said:
... and the bits that were still in good working condition 14 years ago almost certainly aren't any longer.
Speaking from much experience, there are many times with many makes of vehicles that would be proven wrong. Of course though, an Elan is a mythical beast which the tin worm loves to eat the chassis of. More than any other tin found truth be told, so they're all rotten. I can relate to that. I understand Dutch Lotus Disease.Sam_68 said:
It might (however unlikely) be some sort of fluke with the majority of major components in good order, but if you have the knowledge and ability to make that assessment, then you wouldn't be needing to ask the question on here.
I asked the question here because my Lotus ownership experience, and knowledge, as applied to long term standing examples is not always as it seems here as spoken by many of those commenting. So I believe there exists examples that have stood for years that are not as bad as many comments in this topic would suggest or have us believe. Thus they are out there, scruffy unloved looking a little sorry, but they do not have to be minted up to make them usable. That's why I made mention of it here. Obviously though, you're the expert and you know better.
Slade Alive said:
It may well have had a new chassis 15 years ago. Maybe the owner polishes it like his nob - everyday. Who knows? Or maybe the owner Waxoyld it years ago and does so every year when no one is looking.
It wouldn't make much difference if he did - the chassis isn't the only bit on an Elan that would deteriorate if left standing; it isn't even the most critical. Indeed, if the car had been given a galvanised chassis immediately before it was laid up, there's every possibility that that the chassis itself would be in perfect condition, but all the bushes would still need doing as they would have degraded and distorted simply through having weight sat on them for 14 years. But perhaps the owner has replaced them all every couple of years when no-one was looking (neat touch remembering not to pump up the tyres so that no-one will notice...)?
FWIIW, Waxoyling an Elan backbone chassis is only ever partially effective, as one of the places they rot out is where the bodyshell sits on a 'saddle' of resiliant fibre matting across the top of the spine and you can't get Waxoyl in there. Neither does waxoyling help the other problems to which Lotus chassis are prone, it the car has seen use before being laid up: they can develop stress cracks around the diff mountings, the chassis fork at the rear of the engine bay and (if done incorrectly) where the top flange of the chassis is relieved to give clearance to the exhaust manifold.
Slade Alive said:
Sam_68 said:
... and the bits that were still in good working condition 14 years ago almost certainly aren't any longer.
Speaking from much experience, there are many times with many makes of vehicles that would be proven wrong. Of course though, an Elan is a mythical beast which the tin worm loves to eat the chassis of. More than any other tin found truth be told, so they're all rotten. I can relate to that. I understand Dutch Lotus Disease.Don't get too hung up on chassis condition or corrosion - it's only one of many potential problems.
- Electrics (particularly on a Plus 2, which has more complex wiring) are a nightmare on cars that have been left standing. I'd expect to have to do a complete re-wire on a car that had been standing that length of time, before it becomes reliable. I've always done my own, but if you had to pay someone, I dunno... £1,500-£2,000?
- Engines are hugely expensive to rebuild. Even if it was perfect before it was laid up, at the very least the water pump will commit suicide as soon as you start using it again, and on an Elan changing the water pump is an engine-out job which, once started on a car that has been laid up that long, might as well be expanded to a full engine rebuild. Unless you have experience of the Lotus Twin Cam, budget on circa £4.5K to rebuild the engine.
- Unless the owner polishes it like his knob every day (in which case it would have polished through by now), the paintwork will almost certainly have defects; stood outside for that length of time, I would expect osmosis. Only way of solving this permanently and properly is to strip the shell back to gel coat, fixing any stress cracking as you go (TADTS), dry it in a low-bake oven, then re-spray. Budget on £5K+ for a decent job.
- Braking system will need completely overhauling, for safety. This is actually one of the cheaper things to do on an Elan, but I still doubt you'd see much change out of £1K
- Rotoflex donuts will have perished, as a result of having sat stressed in one position for so long. The new ones you can get are crap, so you might be better going for a solid driveshaft conversion, but either way budget on £400-£450 to sort them.
- Interior. It will have leaked (TADT too, Sir) if it's been stood outside for that length of time, so expect the carpets to be rotten, the door cards (vinyl over hardboard) to be shot and the veneer on the dashboard to have delaminated... but at least you can visually inspect that quite easily.
- Then there are all the other odds-and-sods; stuff like cooling system (hoses, heater matrix, radiator), headlamp vacuum system, tyres, battery, etc.
- Oh... and the chassis replacement, if it needs one: budget £3-£3.5K, DIY, by the time you've done all the bushes and other bits that inevitably go with it.
Don't get me wrong, they're an ideal basis for a restoration project as you can get almost all the parts off-the-shelf and they're fairly straightforward and easy to work on, but it just wouldn't be sensible to take on if you haven't got the cash to do it properly, and like most resto projects you shouldn't expect the final value of the car to reflect what it's cost you at the end of the day.
Try to do it on a shoestring and you'll realise why they have such a terrible reputation for fragility and you'll come to hate the marque and all it stands for, 'cos the car won't perform properly and will be unreliable, if not dangerous, to boot.
The conventional wisdom is that you should either buy the best, fully restored car you can find (and expect a degree of de-bugging and ongoing maintenance), or else buy a resoration case (such as we have here) and go through it from top to bottom before it turns a wheel (and still expect a degree of de-bugging and ongoing maintenance). 60's Lotuses don't work well as 'rolling restorations' 'cos ropey ones have a nasty habit of falling to pieces faster than you can put them back together!
Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 23 March 17:19
WhoseGeneration said:
Or. perhaps OP could be ultruistic and post this on a Lotus forum where there might be someone with the desire and means to restore.
The more saved the better.
Without all the modern safety NCAP b
ks, brought about by st drivers, we'd still have such lightweight cars today.
Some really interesting stuff in here, thanks guys. I think I will stick a post on LotusElan.net; reading through it's becoming increasingly obvious that this isn't really something for me to tackle, but there might be someone out there who can. I'd love to see it shifted to someone with the time and skill to get it going again (if by some fluke of nature it doesn't already). The more saved the better.
Without all the modern safety NCAP b
ks, brought about by st drivers, we'd still have such lightweight cars today.On a more self deprecating note, I don't think I'd really be able to do it justice, either. They're lovely little cars, and while I might have the enthusiasm I can tell you for nowt that I don't really have the knowledge. It'd be a learn as you go situation. Much better to see if someone with the skills and time can do something, if the guy will sell. Hell, even breaking is it better than letting it rot. At least another car would be getting a boost to its life span.
...besides, that list of parts and prices off Sam_68 made my wallet hurt
Unless the OP lives in a rough neighbourhood, I don't see the problem with knocking on their door. Someone called at my house the other day to ask where I bought my front door because they liked it! No problem with that at all. However, my Dad's restored a bike and two classic cars (and is just in the process of a third now) so I've seen the figures and the work involved and yes, it can cost a huge amount of money and time - it's always more practical to buy one that's been restored already. That said, if I had time on my hands I'd restore an Elan purey for the satisfaction of putting a motoring icon back on the road 
Twincam16 said:
On the surface, this will sound 'wrong', but bear with me.
You want an Elan, but you're a bit hard-up. Spending shed-money on an Elan will bankrupt you.
However, track down one of these and you can have a good one for shed money:
Scimitar SS1.
Backbone chassis copied from the original Elan, but blessedly galvanised post-'84.
Similarly-sized, similarly Ford-based 1.6-litre engine producing performance comparable to an Elan.
Same goes for the suspension.
Granted, it's not a 'real Lotus', it doesn't have a Lotus badge or Ron Hickman styling and the interior is a mixture of Ford Fiesta and Austin Metro, but for the Elan-style enjoyment you'll get out £1k's-worth of SS1 as opposed to £1k's-worth of immobile Elan that'll take predictably exotic money to recomission, if you're a bit hard-up and want an Elan, look no further than the SS1.
When they came out I thought they were comically ugly, but they don't look too bad to me now can you really get a roadworthy one for a grand?You want an Elan, but you're a bit hard-up. Spending shed-money on an Elan will bankrupt you.
However, track down one of these and you can have a good one for shed money:
Scimitar SS1.
Backbone chassis copied from the original Elan, but blessedly galvanised post-'84.
Similarly-sized, similarly Ford-based 1.6-litre engine producing performance comparable to an Elan.
Same goes for the suspension.
Granted, it's not a 'real Lotus', it doesn't have a Lotus badge or Ron Hickman styling and the interior is a mixture of Ford Fiesta and Austin Metro, but for the Elan-style enjoyment you'll get out £1k's-worth of SS1 as opposed to £1k's-worth of immobile Elan that'll take predictably exotic money to recomission, if you're a bit hard-up and want an Elan, look no further than the SS1.
RobM77 said:
Unless the OP lives in a rough neighbourhood, I don't see the problem with knocking on their door.
Certainly no harm asking, and provided you don't pay too much for it you can always shift it on or break it for spares (and if the latter sounds harsh, remember that the car itself - bodyshell and identity - will probably be resurrected as a Spyder +2 and the other bits will help keep other Elans on the road).The trick is to get sufficiently clued up (or find a friend who is) to ensure that you don't pay over the odds, and to be clear about why you are buying it - to make a few quid and to give the car a chance of a new life seems just fine, in my book, but if you buy with the intention of restoring it yourself when you lack the necessary resources, surely you're just moving the problem from his drive onto your own and emptying your bank account in the process?
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