Cars are getting larger despite more traffic and congestion.
Discussion
I know there are many city/electric cars about, probably more so in London than elsewhere.
Each generation of a certain model of car is bigger than the last. Take my XJ8 at 5024mm in length. It was replaced with the X350 at 5090mm and I'm sure the current model is longer still. Granted Jag, Mercs etc are not your run of the mill car and are probably bought new by people who can accommodate parking them.
Smaller cars however are getting larger. Look at a Fiesta from the mid 90's and compare it to a current model.
Therefore despite more vehicles on the road - I beleive an extra 3 million between now and 2015 - more congestion, more traffic calming measures, mini roundabouts and the like, cars are getting bigger. Will they contiue to do so? Or are current cars as big as they'll ever be?
Each generation of a certain model of car is bigger than the last. Take my XJ8 at 5024mm in length. It was replaced with the X350 at 5090mm and I'm sure the current model is longer still. Granted Jag, Mercs etc are not your run of the mill car and are probably bought new by people who can accommodate parking them.
Smaller cars however are getting larger. Look at a Fiesta from the mid 90's and compare it to a current model.
Therefore despite more vehicles on the road - I beleive an extra 3 million between now and 2015 - more congestion, more traffic calming measures, mini roundabouts and the like, cars are getting bigger. Will they contiue to do so? Or are current cars as big as they'll ever be?
Yeah it's amazing how cars have grown. For example, my old Triumph was considered a large executive car (i.e. a 5-series rival) and it is now completely dwarfed in terms of width or height by pretty much anything.
Another example is that the Citi-Golf, a mk1 Golf on sale in some markets until very recently, had the dashboard from a Skoda Fabia, a car that is a whole class down from the Golf.
We need light weight, small cars back! Pretty much everything is too lard-arse.
Another example is that the Citi-Golf, a mk1 Golf on sale in some markets until very recently, had the dashboard from a Skoda Fabia, a car that is a whole class down from the Golf.
We need light weight, small cars back! Pretty much everything is too lard-arse.
Safety regulations cause cars to get bigger/heavier with more safety features (i.e crumple zones, air bags)
Emissions regulations means manufacturers use smaller engines, or use more expensive components to meet requirements.
Manufacturers want people to have their car serviced by them, so they put excess slabs of plastic under the boot/make simple items laborious to deter people from DIY repairs. (I wouldn't be suprised if Haynes die out in the next decade or so)
D:
Emissions regulations means manufacturers use smaller engines, or use more expensive components to meet requirements.
Manufacturers want people to have their car serviced by them, so they put excess slabs of plastic under the boot/make simple items laborious to deter people from DIY repairs. (I wouldn't be suprised if Haynes die out in the next decade or so)
D:
Thin White Duke said:
I know there are many city/electric cars about, probably more so in London than elsewhere.
Each generation of a certain model of car is bigger than the last. Take my XJ8 at 5024mm in length. It was replaced with the X350 at 5090mm and I'm sure the current model is longer still. Granted Jag, Mercs etc are not your run of the mill car and are probably bought new by people who can accommodate parking them.
Smaller cars however are getting larger. Look at a Fiesta from the mid 90's and compare it to a current model.
Therefore despite more vehicles on the road - I beleive an extra 3 million between now and 2015 - more congestion, more traffic calming measures, mini roundabouts and the like, cars are getting bigger. Will they contiue to do so? Or are current cars as big as they'll ever be?
Bigger on the outside, but not always on the inside.Each generation of a certain model of car is bigger than the last. Take my XJ8 at 5024mm in length. It was replaced with the X350 at 5090mm and I'm sure the current model is longer still. Granted Jag, Mercs etc are not your run of the mill car and are probably bought new by people who can accommodate parking them.
Smaller cars however are getting larger. Look at a Fiesta from the mid 90's and compare it to a current model.
Therefore despite more vehicles on the road - I beleive an extra 3 million between now and 2015 - more congestion, more traffic calming measures, mini roundabouts and the like, cars are getting bigger. Will they contiue to do so? Or are current cars as big as they'll ever be?
Also most cars as they are replaced creep up toward the next class of car, e.g. the current Fiesta is not far off the size off a MK1 Focus. So a Fiesta in name it might be, but its not the same class of car as it once was.
Nah, it's all BS.
The Aygo, IQ, ForTwo, Roadster and a whole host of other small cars (Elise and MX5 included) are also a lot, lot safer than cars of yesteryear.
I don't honestly know why manufacturers have an obsession with making ever increasingly larger/heavier cars but given rising fuel costs cars are definitely heading the wrong way.
I have a suspicion it's due to everyone wanting to emulate German car manufacture, where solidity, weight and large engines are king.
The Aygo, IQ, ForTwo, Roadster and a whole host of other small cars (Elise and MX5 included) are also a lot, lot safer than cars of yesteryear.
I don't honestly know why manufacturers have an obsession with making ever increasingly larger/heavier cars but given rising fuel costs cars are definitely heading the wrong way.
I have a suspicion it's due to everyone wanting to emulate German car manufacture, where solidity, weight and large engines are king.
ambuletz said:
Safety regulations cause cars to get bigger/heavier with more safety features (i.e crumple zones, air bags)
Emissions regulations means manufacturers use smaller engines, or use more expensive components to meet requirements.
Manufacturers want people to have their car serviced by them, so they put excess slabs of plastic under the boot/make simple items laborious to deter people from DIY repairs. (I wouldn't be suprised if Haynes die out in the next decade or so)
D:
Haynes has reported a large drop in sales of their car manuals. That's why they have branched out into doing manuals for Vulcan Bombers, Apollo 11 and even the Starship Enterprise. Emissions regulations means manufacturers use smaller engines, or use more expensive components to meet requirements.
Manufacturers want people to have their car serviced by them, so they put excess slabs of plastic under the boot/make simple items laborious to deter people from DIY repairs. (I wouldn't be suprised if Haynes die out in the next decade or so)
D:
"I'm sorry Captain, I canna make the repairs to the warp drive without my Haynes manual."
Triumph Man said:
Yeah it's amazing how cars have grown. For example, my old Triumph was considered a large executive car (i.e. a 5-series rival) and it is now completely dwarfed in terms of width or height by pretty much anything.
Another example is that the Citi-Golf, a mk1 Golf on sale in some markets until very recently, had the dashboard from a Skoda Fabia, a car that is a whole class down from the Golf.
We need light weight, small cars back! Pretty much everything is too lard-arse.
I thought it was me getting old,last week I was following a nice 2500S estate on the M25 and was shocked how small it looked compared to Focuses and things.my passenger even commented that when he was a kid Triumph 2000's were big posh cars.Another example is that the Citi-Golf, a mk1 Golf on sale in some markets until very recently, had the dashboard from a Skoda Fabia, a car that is a whole class down from the Golf.
We need light weight, small cars back! Pretty much everything is too lard-arse.
Thin White Duke said:
Haynes has reported a large drop in sales of their car manuals. That's why they have branched out into doing manuals for Vulcan Bombers, Apollo 11 and even the Starship Enterprise.
"I'm sorry Captain, I canna make the repairs to the warp drive without my Haynes manual."
what's the spanner rating on that? "I'm sorry Captain, I canna make the repairs to the warp drive without my Haynes manual."
I was pulled up next to a brand new Astra earlier (mine's a mk2). I was (or at least felt!) about level to the passenger's shoulder. Massive thing! I thought mine was a bit bulky but this is on another level. Seems to have really got worse quickly over the last 5ish years. Can't help but wonder how much more efficient (to keep with the analogy) the new Astra's running gear would be in mine.
Just to illustrate the scale of change, mine has a kerb weight of 880kg.
Kerb weight of the new one in 1.3 diesel guise: 1465kg!!
Well over half a ton heavier!
The 1.7 is 1684kg: Pretty much double the weight of mine! In 20 years difference (mine's a 1991). I'd probably get about 100 mpg with the modern running gear
Just to illustrate the scale of change, mine has a kerb weight of 880kg.
Kerb weight of the new one in 1.3 diesel guise: 1465kg!!
Well over half a ton heavier! The 1.7 is 1684kg: Pretty much double the weight of mine! In 20 years difference (mine's a 1991). I'd probably get about 100 mpg with the modern running gear
It's what i've done with mine in certain respect. Taken a 14 year old car and slapped a 2 year old engine at nearly double the capacity. The result........twice the power & torque and a little bit better Mpg than the old engine.
Cars really are horrendously big these days. I too saw the current Mondeo and thought how huge it is compared to the original.
Also visibility in modern cars has completely gone out of the window as they have got bigger. You can hide an entire Range Rover behind the pillar of a new shape Fiesta from 25 yards away
Cars really are horrendously big these days. I too saw the current Mondeo and thought how huge it is compared to the original.
Also visibility in modern cars has completely gone out of the window as they have got bigger. You can hide an entire Range Rover behind the pillar of a new shape Fiesta from 25 yards away
Ug_lee said:
It's what i've done with mine in certain respect. Taken a 14 year old car and slapped a 2 year old engine at nearly double the capacity. The result........twice the power & torque and a little bit better Mpg than the old engine.
Cars really are horrendously big these days. I too saw the current Mondeo and thought how huge it is compared to the original.
Also visibility in modern cars has completely gone out of the window as they have got bigger. You can hide an entire Range Rover behind the pillar of a new shape Fiesta from 25 yards away
Just had a look in your garage, that really is lovely! Cars really are horrendously big these days. I too saw the current Mondeo and thought how huge it is compared to the original.
Also visibility in modern cars has completely gone out of the window as they have got bigger. You can hide an entire Range Rover behind the pillar of a new shape Fiesta from 25 yards away
My OH's 1.4 petrol i30 is a little heavier than my 1.8 petrol Mk3 Mondeo. That doesn't make sense. What really doesn't make sense is how well it goes considering it's a 108PS 1.4 petrol.
The Pug 207 is bigger than the 306 was, too. 207 is a huge car, to the point where I was considering one to replace the Mondeo. Not as much boot space, but interior space seems bigger.
The Pug 207 is bigger than the 306 was, too. 207 is a huge car, to the point where I was considering one to replace the Mondeo. Not as much boot space, but interior space seems bigger.
Edited by HellDiver on Wednesday 6th April 11:17
It is completely daft, and the joke of it all is the economy.
We seem to be actually going backwards in terms of real fuel economy.
back in 1987 there was the Daihatsu Charade 1.0 TD. in the real world you can get 100mpg+ from it, and still get 0-60 in 12-13seconds.
nowadays they struggle to get 60mpg from a small car, and when you drive them yourself you discover this is very much a massaged figure, and you will only ever see 80% of the official mpg figures.
In 24 years we seem to have progressed so little!
yet fuel economy and the environment is the one area we are being shouted about all the time.
i'm sure if they took the basis of this car, put in a modern like-for-like engine and used modern better materials for the construction, you would have 120mpg+, with a decent performance practical car.
1987 I tells you. 1987!!! (well it might actually have been a bit earlier)
We seem to be actually going backwards in terms of real fuel economy.
back in 1987 there was the Daihatsu Charade 1.0 TD. in the real world you can get 100mpg+ from it, and still get 0-60 in 12-13seconds.
nowadays they struggle to get 60mpg from a small car, and when you drive them yourself you discover this is very much a massaged figure, and you will only ever see 80% of the official mpg figures.
In 24 years we seem to have progressed so little!
yet fuel economy and the environment is the one area we are being shouted about all the time.
i'm sure if they took the basis of this car, put in a modern like-for-like engine and used modern better materials for the construction, you would have 120mpg+, with a decent performance practical car.
1987 I tells you. 1987!!! (well it might actually have been a bit earlier)
Efbe said:
It is completely daft, and the joke of it all is the economy.
We seem to be actually going backwards in terms of real fuel economy.
back in 1987 there was the Daihatsu Charade 1.0 TD. in the real world you can get 100mpg+ from it, and still get 0-60 in 12-13seconds.
nowadays they struggle to get 60mpg from a small car, and when you drive them yourself you discover this is very much a massaged figure, and you will only ever see 80% of the official mpg figures.
In 24 years we seem to have progressed so little!
yet fuel economy and the environment is the one area we are being shouted about all the time.
i'm sure if they took the basis of this car, put in a modern like-for-like engine and used modern better materials for the construction, you would have 120mpg+, with a decent performance practical car.
1987 I tells you. 1987!!! (well it might actually have been a bit earlier)
That sounds extremely unlikely to me, which is why I decided to look into it...We seem to be actually going backwards in terms of real fuel economy.
back in 1987 there was the Daihatsu Charade 1.0 TD. in the real world you can get 100mpg+ from it, and still get 0-60 in 12-13seconds.
nowadays they struggle to get 60mpg from a small car, and when you drive them yourself you discover this is very much a massaged figure, and you will only ever see 80% of the official mpg figures.
In 24 years we seem to have progressed so little!
yet fuel economy and the environment is the one area we are being shouted about all the time.
i'm sure if they took the basis of this car, put in a modern like-for-like engine and used modern better materials for the construction, you would have 120mpg+, with a decent performance practical car.
1987 I tells you. 1987!!! (well it might actually have been a bit earlier)
45 MPG average according to this road test:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/3362...
Which is pretty pathetic compared to what a modern engine will do.
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