what's happening in the used car market

[jonah35]

with petrol prices looking to go up as oil hit $125 ish and all the cuts coming and rate rises what are the traders and auction goers on here seeing happen to nice cars price wise.

its my understanding that classics are doing ok due to people wanting to put money into tangible alternative investments. I'd have particularly thought 70s/80's and even early 90s cars as the people who had them on their bedroom wall now have the cash to buy them - evidenced by say the £10k rise in testarossas in the past 2 years ish.

i would have also thought that the big cars such as range rovers, F430's, DB9's etc will all take a bit of a hit as i'm not sure what the demographic is or who the type of person is that buys a £35,000 Bentley GT for example. Sure, I can understand buying a new bentley may be a very wealthy person but who is going to buy a £35k bentley GT that costs £460 to tax, a lot to run, insure and service and £100 to fill up when that fill up won't get you a few hours drive on a motorway. It's my opinion that these types of cars are going to fall in value quite heavily similar to what we saw in 2008 ish.

But rather than me just sit here guessing i'm after some insight from the people who actually trade these types of cars, examples and so on and so forth.

Over to you

[jonah35]

anyone - the thread on rx8's seem to show they aren't selling

[confused_buyer]

Newer and lower mileage stuff is in short supply and hence expensive. Anything reasonable small and economical is doing well. Larger, older, thristy stuff will sell but it has to be in very, very cheap (i.e. £2-3k and below) second or third car weekend sort of purchasers. Tatty, higher mileage cars are struggling a bit in the trade but if it is Golf sized or below and a diesel it'll still fetch good money.

The used car market depends om supply and demand - demand is down but so is supply due to lack of new sales so it sort of evens out.

The real demand seems to be in the no finance cheap economical stuff. Stick a £2.5k 120k diesel on sale and you would be amazed at how many calls you get starting with "I've got a 59-reg Audi A4 to part ex. Yes, it is on finance".

[Jasandjules]

jonah35 said:

i would have also thought that the big cars such as range rovers, F430's, DB9's etc will all take a bit of a hit as i'm not sure what the demographic is or who the type of person is that buys a £35,000 Bentley GT for example.

Well, as you've asked and I'm not a dealer, I will have to guess as well..

I should imagine that anyone with 60-130k to spend on a F430 or DB9 isn't going to worry tooooo much about the fuel prices.

[jonah35]

confused_buyer said:

Newer and lower mileage stuff is in short supply and hence expensive. Anything reasonable small and economical is doing well. Larger, older, thristy stuff will sell but it has to be in very, very cheap (i.e. £2-3k and below) second or third car weekend sort of purchasers. Tatty, higher mileage cars are struggling a bit in the trade but if it is Golf sized or below and a diesel it'll still fetch good money.

The used car market depends om supply and demand - demand is down but so is supply due to lack of new sales so it sort of evens out.

The real demand seems to be in the no finance cheap economical stuff. Stick a £2.5k 120k diesel on sale and you would be amazed at how many calls you get starting with "I've got a 59-reg Audi A4 to part ex. Yes, it is on finance".

interesting.

it seems all anyone wants these days is a diesel hatchback (myself included)

no one really wants the 645i's anymore - i think people are realising that it's better to get a taxi to a restaurant tonight and have a nice bottle or two of wine, a nice steak and good company rather than just filling up a car to sit in traffic, pay lots of insurance and road tax too.

[MJK 24]

I agree that the market for a £35,000 Bentley Continental GT may be somewhat limited. I'm sure that 5 years ago when everyone was feeling like a millionaire, many people said to themselves that they'd nab one when they became sub £40,000. Now that we're here however, the world for many, seems to be a very different place and people are thinking a lot harder and longer about car purchases.

I'm sure that fuel economy and taxation are among the most important factors for people at the moment when considering their next car purchase.

[confused_buyer]

jonah35 said:

interesting.

it seems all anyone wants these days is a diesel hatchback (myself included)

Larger econmical stuff is also doing quite well - there is always a certain market which needs to space for dogs, kids, holidays etc. Cars like V70 D5's are still holding all their money and in some cases appreciating.

[jonah35]

MJK 24 said:

I agree that the market for a £35,000 Bentley Continental GT may be somewhat limited. I'm sure that 5 years ago when everyone was feeling like a millionaire, many people said to themselves that they'd nab one when they became sub £40,000. Now that we're here however, the world for many, seems to be a very different place and people are thinking a lot harder and longer about car purchases.

I'm sure that fuel economy and taxation are among the most important factors for people at the moment when considering their next car purchase.

yeah and interest rates and the fact that their property capital appreciation can't soak up the running costs etc.

i'm just thinking aloud really but i don't honestly know if i'd actually *want* a Bentley GT etc. obviously i would if all running costs were included but i think if it was the choice of being given 2 cars but i had to run them every day and pay the running costs and could choose either a new golf bluemotion or a £35k bentley GT i'd go for the golf all day long.

£free road tax vs £460
probably £500 insurance vs £1500
servicing £200 vs a grand
fuel costs maybe another £100 per week saving
no envy in the golf
worried about the gearbox going bang in the bentley
not worried about it

I do have toys and am a true petrolhead but the daily driver is a diesel hatchback and i'm not short of £££ but I can't get around the logic anymore. A weekend car or collection then i can see the point, a daily hack other than a cheap diesel? i'm not so sure.

[confused_buyer]

There is a big change in people buying what they need rather than what they want. Many buyers are dropping the £25k new or newish car and buying something sensible for £5k, usually for cash. Cheaper cars are actually getting quite expensive because that is where the demand is.

However, there is still demand for the larger 4x4's etc. if the right spec, colour and mileage. There is always a certain percentage of the market who despite hard times will sacrifice anything else to drive a car the neighbours are impressed by.

[MJK 24]

jonah35 said:

eah and interest rates and the fact that their property capital appreciation can't soak up the running costs etc.

i'm just thinking aloud really but i don't honestly know if i'd actually *want* a Bentley GT etc. obviously i would if all running costs were included but i think if it was the choice of being given 2 cars but i had to run them every day and pay the running costs and could choose either a new golf bluemotion or a £35k bentley GT i'd go for the golf all day long.

£free road tax vs £460
probably £500 insurance vs £1500
servicing £200 vs a grand
fuel costs maybe another £100 per week saving
no envy in the golf
worried about the gearbox going bang in the bentley
not worried about it

I do have toys and am a true petrolhead but the daily driver is a diesel hatchback and i'm not short of £££ but I can't get around the logic anymore. A weekend car or collection then i can see the point, a daily hack other than a cheap diesel? i'm not so sure.

Money is definately a big consideration for many at the moment. Those with money and those on tighter budgets. I've always wanted a Ferrari 355. Berlinetta, manual box. At the end of this year, if I sell my Lotus, I'll finally be in a position where I could buy one for cash. With the way the economy is at the moment, and the ever bleak future that the media seems to paint, I think it's going to be a dream too far. Time to be sensible from here on in I think and be happy with my lot.

[550Hep]

In fairness the general desire to be a little more frugal with life in general is what has prevented me from getting a weekender again, even a £5k classic. I could the point is I don't think I should.

I am slap bang in the category that would both like and could without finance grab a £30k-£40k "something interesting" but I would rather not right now even though things - touch wood - are looking good for us.

I am just more interested in keeping a very soft and fluffy financial cushion under us than I am indulging myself.

[jjones]

just downgraded to a clio dci (previous car not on finance)

60mpg, 30 a year tax, drives nice enough. better things to be spending cash on, i only use the car for work and the clio does over twice the mpg of the TT i had.

seemed to me that when i was looking the small hatches with good economy and year >= 2001 to take advantage of cheaper tax were selling really fast for anything that was half decent. bottom end of the market i was looking sub 1.5k

[Thin White Duke]

I'm amazed that the large capacity petrol Range Rovers hold their value very well indeed.

I like to drive cars that have something special about them, granted I work at home and so save alot on fuel, which I can put towards insurance, tax, repairs etc.

If I came into some money say a six figure lottery win then a Bentley GT/Arnage for circa £40k would be something to consider. I could afford to purchase it and run it, thus driving something which is still modern, special but without taking the huge depreciation hit.

[zollburgers]

jonah35 said:

anyone - the thread on rx8's seem to show they aren't selling

I'm looking around for my next car and stumbled across the RX8. I can't believe how cheap they are, for example the first one at the moment in the classifieds is:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2493162.htm

less than 7k for a 57 plate with 24k miles and this is typical. I guess there is little demand for them.

[POORCARDEALER]

Cars we have sold in the last 7 days...

02 Mercedes S320 Petrol

02 Mercedes E240 Petrol(swopper for above)

03 Ford Fusion 1.4

56 Renault Megane 1.5 Dci

05 Land Rover Freelander 1.8

Also an MGF,an Alfa 147.

A real mixed bag....if the bigger petrol engined cars are not beautiful low mileage and high spec they will sit forever.

[carmonk]

POORCARDEALER said:

A real mixed bag....if the bigger petrol engined cars are not beautiful low mileage and high spec they will sit forever.

And yet so many sellers seem happy with this. Cars in showrooms for 12 months+, private sellers who reduce their price every two weeks for months, as if assigning a price way above book was reasonable in the first place. It's like petrol is £0.99p per litre and the recession is a distant memory. Offer 10% below listed price (assuming everything checks out) and immediately they laugh as if you're a timewaster, yet months later the car's still there. Baffling.

[POORCARDEALER]

carmonk said:

POORCARDEALER said:

A real mixed bag....if the bigger petrol engined cars are not beautiful low mileage and high spec they will sit forever.

And yet so many sellers seem happy with this. Cars in showrooms for 12 months+, private sellers who reduce their price every two weeks for months, as if assigning a price way above book was reasonable in the first place. It's like petrol is £0.99p per litre and the recession is a distant memory. Offer 10% below listed price (assuming everything checks out) and immediately they laugh as if you're a timewaster, yet months later the car's still there. Baffling.

I think dealers (and I am guilty of this myself) buy something nice, advertise it, someone offers you a deal which is half the margin you think the car should make, so you turn it down...wind clock forward 3 months you still have the car,and its for sale at less than you were offered....its all part and parcel of doing the job, and sometimes it wont go as you expected.

[anonymous-user]

I think the slow moving housing market in the UK might be shuffling a few quid into the coffers of some car dealers.

Certainly the LR dealer nearest me is smiling. Jan, Feb and Mar were all good for them apparently and they are really struggling to get enough good used stock to meet demand. No attractive deals on a swap for me.

[carmonk]

POORCARDEALER said:

carmonk said:

POORCARDEALER said:

A real mixed bag....if the bigger petrol engined cars are not beautiful low mileage and high spec they will sit forever.

And yet so many sellers seem happy with this. Cars in showrooms for 12 months+, private sellers who reduce their price every two weeks for months, as if assigning a price way above book was reasonable in the first place. It's like petrol is £0.99p per litre and the recession is a distant memory. Offer 10% below listed price (assuming everything checks out) and immediately they laugh as if you're a timewaster, yet months later the car's still there. Baffling.

I think dealers (and I am guilty of this myself) buy something nice, advertise it, someone offers you a deal which is half the margin you think the car should make, so you turn it down...wind clock forward 3 months you still have the car,and its for sale at less than you were offered....its all part and parcel of doing the job, and sometimes it wont go as you expected.

What's also inexplicable is that the sellers I've seen (both private and trade) are not only passing up decent potential offers, but they're simply not doing anything to sell the car in these difficult times. It's rare to see a car even washed properly for photos, let alone valeted, polished and waxed. And as I mentioned elsewhere, knackered alloys and 'parking scrapes' are par for the course, even on relatively recent cars. Enquiries are met with grunts, 'don't know's or downright lies, and there's so much trickery and information hiding going on it's a minefield. Ten minutes ago I was on a particular trader's site. They're selling a certain 3.5l 280bhp petrol guzzler at a reasonable price so not only did I consider they'd maybe seen the light, I also saw they were a member of a certain 'good garage' scheme, which was comforting. Trouble is, when I checked up there is no such scheme. Sometimes I can understand why people opt to pay over the odds for a new car.

[832ark]

I'm pretty sure there is a good garage scheme. My friend has a garage and is in this scheme also.