E36 Evo v E46 330i v Audi A2 TDI?!!
Discussion
OK, some with the help of some serious spreadsheet action I have been looking at my next car it must be either
a) very cheap to run
OR
b) Very exciting to drive
I currently have an E30 325i thats fully sorted but at ~25mpg I might as well be driving an M3.
I have looked at all the costs of ownership insurance, resale, depreciation etc and estimated the costs but annual maintainance costs are difficult..
Audi - 70mpg from the 1.4tdi with loads of torque its going up in value at about £4k, but its a diesel so expensive servicing (£400 a year all in?)
Evo - again, i cant see this depreciating any further from these record lows, but an expensive box of bits tyres etc (£750 a year?)
330i - newer, more electronics means less can be DIY? (£750) and it will loose value.
This is a maintainance costs only question - I understand that the A2 is not quick around the northern loop and you wont see any on the evo triangle!!
a) very cheap to run
OR
b) Very exciting to drive
I currently have an E30 325i thats fully sorted but at ~25mpg I might as well be driving an M3.
I have looked at all the costs of ownership insurance, resale, depreciation etc and estimated the costs but annual maintainance costs are difficult..
Audi - 70mpg from the 1.4tdi with loads of torque its going up in value at about £4k, but its a diesel so expensive servicing (£400 a year all in?)
Evo - again, i cant see this depreciating any further from these record lows, but an expensive box of bits tyres etc (£750 a year?)
330i - newer, more electronics means less can be DIY? (£750) and it will loose value.
This is a maintainance costs only question - I understand that the A2 is not quick around the northern loop and you wont see any on the evo triangle!!
as i say, the mpg i understand, but the maintainance costs that worry me, they are never posted.
the 330d would be good but again, its not as quick as the m3 or 330i or as furgal as the A2, so it a compromise.
330ci - whats the maitainance costs per year like? anyone had both BMWs? you hear scare stories of the m3
the 330d would be good but again, its not as quick as the m3 or 330i or as furgal as the A2, so it a compromise.
330ci - whats the maitainance costs per year like? anyone had both BMWs? you hear scare stories of the m3
Sounds like a great spreadsheet if these are your only options!
Any idea on how many miles you do p.a?
Indy servicing on the A4 would knock that down to <£250
Just spotted your post... £1000 saving isn't to be sniffed at! Unless you commute is all motorway, I'm not sure you'd get 70mpg.
Any idea on how many miles you do p.a?
Indy servicing on the A4 would knock that down to <£250
Just spotted your post... £1000 saving isn't to be sniffed at! Unless you commute is all motorway, I'm not sure you'd get 70mpg.
Edited by Dift on Friday 15th April 09:45
they are the only options, there are loads of others, clio sport, honda s2k, mr2T, integra, CTR, 200sx, 330d, 320d, elise etc but I dont really want a compromise, either its balls out excitement or mpg hunting.
the A2 and the M3 are the extremes really.
Is diesel servicing 50% more than petrol?
the A2 and the M3 are the extremes really.
Is diesel servicing 50% more than petrol?
From personal experience I can confirm that the difference between a "normal" 6-pot BMW, and its equivilent //M car is far more than your would expect. I hate to sound all fan-boy, but BMW M cars are simply fantastic, and great value for money to buy. Running costs, however, to maintain them correctly WILL be 50% higher that you are used to sadly.
The next step from your current car IMO would be up the model range, rather than into the next generation equivilent of what you already have ........ Shop around, and find yourself the best Estoril Blue E36 M3 that you can for your budget
ETA
Just read that its an E30 325 that you already have, rather than an E36 .... Therefore the E36 M3 is both the next model up, and the next generation too! Go for it (picture added to inspire you away from silly ideas of DERV Audi A2s
)
Not my car BTW .... My E36 was a 3.0 in Avus Blue.
The next step from your current car IMO would be up the model range, rather than into the next generation equivilent of what you already have ........ Shop around, and find yourself the best Estoril Blue E36 M3 that you can for your budget
ETA
Just read that its an E30 325 that you already have, rather than an E36 .... Therefore the E36 M3 is both the next model up, and the next generation too! Go for it (picture added to inspire you away from silly ideas of DERV Audi A2s
)Not my car BTW .... My E36 was a 3.0 in Avus Blue.
Edited by mat205125 on Friday 15th April 10:04
If your choice is between economy or excitement, I actually think I'd go for the A2 
on the basis that it's very frugal, whereas the E36 and E46 aren't exactly the last word in excitement, IMO.
The A2 was a very advanced car for its time (even now, there can't be many mainstream aluminium cars) and clever packaging means they're deceptively spacious. They could also be specified with leather, Bose, panoramic roof, sports pack(!) etc which is still fairly unusual for cars in their class. I even like the oddball looks. While not really a driver's car, they can be quite a laugh to drive in a rental car kind of way. Values are rock solid too.
Not quick or particularly involving to drive but they're rarer and less boring than many alternatives.
As for an E36 M3 or E46 330i, yes, they're infinitely quicker than an A2 but nothing amazing in outright excitement terms. Nor are they particularly cheap to run/maintain. The E46 in particular seems to have some rather annoying/worrying common faults.
How about one of the original Honda Insights as an another option on the 'economical' shortlist?
on the basis that it's very frugal, whereas the E36 and E46 aren't exactly the last word in excitement, IMO.The A2 was a very advanced car for its time (even now, there can't be many mainstream aluminium cars) and clever packaging means they're deceptively spacious. They could also be specified with leather, Bose, panoramic roof, sports pack(!) etc which is still fairly unusual for cars in their class. I even like the oddball looks. While not really a driver's car, they can be quite a laugh to drive in a rental car kind of way. Values are rock solid too.
Not quick or particularly involving to drive but they're rarer and less boring than many alternatives.
As for an E36 M3 or E46 330i, yes, they're infinitely quicker than an A2 but nothing amazing in outright excitement terms. Nor are they particularly cheap to run/maintain. The E46 in particular seems to have some rather annoying/worrying common faults.
How about one of the original Honda Insights as an another option on the 'economical' shortlist?
Edited by Risotto on Friday 15th April 11:41
unutterable83 said:
as i say, the mpg i understand, but the maintainance costs that worry me, they are never posted.
the 330d would be good but again, its not as quick as the m3 or 330i or as furgal as the A2, so it a compromise.
330ci - whats the maitainance costs per year like? anyone had both BMWs? you hear scare stories of the m3
Troulbe is. Maintenance is too specific to each individual car. And then it depends on how you fix it, which parts and where you get the work done. the 330d would be good but again, its not as quick as the m3 or 330i or as furgal as the A2, so it a compromise.
330ci - whats the maitainance costs per year like? anyone had both BMWs? you hear scare stories of the m3
Ie 2 identical cars could cost hasty different amounts to maintain.
unutterable83 said:
great input on the Audi, thanks.
If you deem an e36 m3 not that exciting, for 5-6K what would be? It would need to be well built, depreciation proof(ish)
I would lose an s1 elise, or s2k, or boxster but all are convertibles, which i dont really want.
Hmm. I guess you're right - there isn't that much that would be good fun without either costing a fortune to run or shedding value through depreciation (although any car can be depreciation-proof if you pay the right price and don't keep it forever).If you deem an e36 m3 not that exciting, for 5-6K what would be? It would need to be well built, depreciation proof(ish)
I would lose an s1 elise, or s2k, or boxster but all are convertibles, which i dont really want.
I didn't meant to sound that negative about the BMWs, I guess it just depends on your definition of exciting. Personally I'd sacrifice some straight line speed and go for something lighter and more agile - the bonus being that consumables are generally cheaper. I'm not keen on convertibles either but I have had a few over the years if there's been no coupe alternative available - they're not that bad really and most can be had with a hard top.
DC2 Integra - never tried one but there must be some justification for the solid prices they fetch.
M100 Elan Turbo maybe? They seem to have held their values better than Elises. Good strong Isuzu engines that can do 6 figure mileages without issue. Not sure about the rest of the car though
I ran an S2 Elise as a daily driver for a while - a hateful experience, despite the car being great to drive.Mazda RX-7 (a well-cared for example) - Kind of the opposite situation in that it's the engine you have to worry about, the rest of the car will be fine! Fuel bills may make you queasy though.
MX-5 - great fun, very reliable but hardly depreciation proof.
Edited by Risotto on Friday 15th April 13:41
We had a new A2 TDi back in 2002 and although it suffered Turbo failure after 600 miles (fixed under warranty no problem) it was a very frugal and definately different little car for the next 2 years. Beautiful build quality and it wasn't a bad drive at all. I think it was way ahead of it's time, certainly much more interesting than the latest A1. Our was a basic spec but many had leather and bose sound systems.
The A2 is no road burner and I might be a little cautious over long term reliability of that little 3 pot diesel but it's definately a smart buy if that's the class of car you are after.
The A2 is no road burner and I might be a little cautious over long term reliability of that little 3 pot diesel but it's definately a smart buy if that's the class of car you are after.
lotus elan, thats left field - wild one! I love RX7s but they engines do scare me and a nice one must be north of £5k
good to hear other people struggle with the decision. i am getting married soon and with luck hope for a baby soonish, so i guess that alone is a reason to get the M3 itched and save the A2 for a frugal parenthood.
good to hear other people struggle with the decision. i am getting married soon and with luck hope for a baby soonish, so i guess that alone is a reason to get the M3 itched and save the A2 for a frugal parenthood.
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