Save our cyclists: Clamour for flood of avoidable road death
Discussion
Has this been posted up yet?
>>Save our cyclists: Clamour for flood of avoidable road deaths to be stemmed<<
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sav...
I don't have much comment to say about this, apart from wondering why so many cycle v HGV accidents seem to involve female cyclists - and that in the list of points to be addressed at the end of the article, there is nothing about education for cyclists. So clearly they think it's all somebody else's fault.
>>Save our cyclists: Clamour for flood of avoidable road deaths to be stemmed<<
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sav...
I don't have much comment to say about this, apart from wondering why so many cycle v HGV accidents seem to involve female cyclists - and that in the list of points to be addressed at the end of the article, there is nothing about education for cyclists. So clearly they think it's all somebody else's fault.
I stand corrected: http://www.no-more-lethal-lorries.org.uk/index.asp...
Having seen what some cyclists wear, it's often not surprising.
I wear a fully luminous hi-vis vest, even in the middle of the day.
It reminds me of my girlfriend's mother, who has TWICE been taken out by lorries on the motorway. Always their fault, apparently. You'd think she'd have learnt...
I wear a fully luminous hi-vis vest, even in the middle of the day.
It reminds me of my girlfriend's mother, who has TWICE been taken out by lorries on the motorway. Always their fault, apparently. You'd think she'd have learnt...
heebeegeetee said:
there is nothing about education for cyclists.
In one of the first paragraphs:article said:
But a spate of deaths in London this year, and a growing toll of casualties nationwide, has prompted demands for better education of lorry and bus drivers, as well as cyclists themselves.
I agree they would be better off educating cyclists not to hang around in buses/trucks blindspot, as by definition the driver cannot see them there. They are the most vulnerable party after all.Benbay001 said:
What sort of a t
t pulls up in a lorries blind spot?!? If he was turning left he must have surely been indicating and in the left lane, so why the hell was a cyclist alongside him/her? Beyond me..
This always makes the assumption they were undertaking the lorry. I have been "left hooked" many times by cars and vans that half-heartedly overtake and then immediately turn left. The problem arises from a combination of ignorance on the drivers part and an underestimation of the cyclists speed.t pulls up in a lorries blind spot?!? If he was turning left he must have surely been indicating and in the left lane, so why the hell was a cyclist alongside him/her? Beyond me..heebeegeetee said:
I don't have much comment to say about this, apart from wondering why so many cycle v HGV accidents seem to involve female cyclists
It's a very pertinent point, but one you cannot address without being accused of being sexist.A sexist person might suggest that women are:
- Less able to judge speed and distance
- Less observant
- More timid
- Slower
- Unable to maintain their machines
Even if there is an ounce of truth in the above statements it might go some way to explaining the reasons.
I applaud the Independent for the article, but their suggestions for tackling the issue is completely misguided. For example, a 20mph limit will not stop van drivers playing chicken with cyclists who have right of way down a narrow street (as evidenced this morning on my cycle to work). What we need are better "cycle superhighways". The latest Boris ones are no good at all.
XitUp said:
Cycle lanes that don't have trees/bins/parked cars in them would be a good idea too.
Absolutely. When Boris announced cycle superhighways, I was expecting whole roads to be shut to motor vehicles, perhaps cycle tracks alongside railway lines going in and out of London on direct fast routes away from traffic.What we got was paint on the roads. There is a section in Clapham that is so dangerous I'd rather ride with the cars.
I cycle to and from work in central London pretty much every day (8 miles each way). The amount of women I see who shouldn't be allowed out on the road (on a bike or in a car) is amazing - they really don't have a clue what is going on around them. Then there's the idiots who cycle up the inside of traffic. Don't get me started on those who cycle with earphones in...
Personally, I only move up the inside of traffic if it is staionary and I can see it will remain stationary whilst I'm passing. Otherwise I'm either in front of a vehicle, behind it or passing on the offside. Much safer.
Personally, I only move up the inside of traffic if it is staionary and I can see it will remain stationary whilst I'm passing. Otherwise I'm either in front of a vehicle, behind it or passing on the offside. Much safer.
TonyHetherington said:
mybrainhurts said:
Encourage less car use and more. cycling so that, as in The Netherlands and Denmark, collision rates for cyclists are reduced.
That is genius 
The absolute number of deaths will increase, but the rate will decrease, so that's ok.
Unless they're referring to exploding bicycles.
That been said, I'm all for technology that saves a lorry or bus driver from having to live with the fact that they ran someone over, even if it wasn't their fault.
Edited by Alfanatic on Tuesday 19th April 15:09
In summer you see a lot of Dippy Dorrises sat low and laid-back on their lady bikes ambling though the thundering London traffic with not a care in the World. They sport sunglasses and iPods, and dress to be seen by their friends rather than motorists.
Very sad but it is little wonder they get crushed to death by cement lorries.
The best real solution, IMHO, is to provide dedicated cycle highways across London. Not some poxy paint on the pavement, or some optimistic line on an already narrow road which barely leaves enough room for a motorbike. I'm talking dedicated lanes separated by kerbs or even dedicated roads. And to do this they'll need to scrap some of the bus lanes and bus routes.
Very sad but it is little wonder they get crushed to death by cement lorries.
The best real solution, IMHO, is to provide dedicated cycle highways across London. Not some poxy paint on the pavement, or some optimistic line on an already narrow road which barely leaves enough room for a motorbike. I'm talking dedicated lanes separated by kerbs or even dedicated roads. And to do this they'll need to scrap some of the bus lanes and bus routes.
Cycling safely around HGVs said:
When turning left, large lorries always move over to the right before they swing sharply across to turn. Always stay out of the lorry risk zone near junctions.
Didn't know that every London cab (black or otherwise) is considered a large lorry 
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The amount of times I almost got run over on a pedestrian crossing by cyclists not willing to wait at red light calls for a death penalty not prosecutionFFS
heebeegeetee said:
wondering why so many cycle v HGV accidents seem to involve female cyclists - and that in the list of points to be addressed at the end of the article, there is nothing about education for cyclists. So clearly they think it's all somebody else's fault.
Education is a big part of reducing cyclist deaths, but unfortunately hard to encourage good take-up, let alone make compulsory. After all, most people learn how to ride when they're a kid, what more would they think they need?Women cyclists have a tendency, especially if they've not had any extra training, to adopt a more timid road position - a "I'm not in your way, please go past, I'm not really here" kind of approach. That isn't especially bad in itself as long as they don't let themselves get hopelessly penned in - it is problematic when passing slow or stationary traffic though (because of course, everyone is being told cycling is the quickest way to get around, and to "beat the traffic") because it means going down the left. Having cycle lanes to priority boxes down the left on a lot of junctions tends to encourage this too.
The same attitude means IME that women are less likely to position themselves safely at the front of a queue of waiting traffic - which means plonking yourself in front of the lead vehicle, where they can see you, and discouraging them from trying to blast past when the lights go green. What women tend to do instead in sit to the left of the front vehicle - and if that's a HGV, they are very unlikely to see them there. To the left of the left lane means there's also a good chance that the HGV is turning left, and will do so, oblivious to the cyclist there. Lots of these junctions have barriers up (to stop pedestrians ending up in this danger zone) so cyclists can get trapped. Someone who panics can easily fall and end up right under the wheels.
It may be unfair to typify this behaviour to women cyclists because I see a lot of men doing the same too. Very little forward observation or risk judgement combined with the sense of entitlement that you *should* be getting past the traffic means a lot of unnecessary risks are being taken.
(fwiw, I do about 50km a week around London by cycle, plus also drive and use a motorbike too)
I knew one of the girls involved and she was more a snowboarding tomboy type than a 'Dippy Dorris'. I dont know the exact circumstances of what happened in her particular accident, but she was a serious cyclist from what I saw.
However my personal opinion is still along the lines of better training for cyclists, because at the moment you can jump on a bike and go through central London with no knowledge of how roads work at all.
However my personal opinion is still along the lines of better training for cyclists, because at the moment you can jump on a bike and go through central London with no knowledge of how roads work at all.
sjg said:
The same attitude means IME that women are less likely to position themselves safely at the front of a queue of waiting traffic - which means plonking yourself in front of the lead vehicle, where they can see you, and discouraging them from trying to blast past when the lights go green. What women tend to do instead in sit to the left of the front vehicle - and if that's a HGV, they are very unlikely to see them there. To the left of the left lane means there's also a good chance that the HGV is turning left, and will do so, oblivious to the cyclist there. Lots of these junctions have barriers up (to stop pedestrians ending up in this danger zone) so cyclists can get trapped. Someone who panics can easily fall and end up right under the wheels.
Spot-on observation. Access to the cycle advance-stop box is also often impeded by buses and lorries (due to the sheer width, not necessarily bad driving) so a cyclist can come down the left of stationary vehicles in a cycle lane and then find themselves trapped mid-queue unable to access the defensive position at the front of the queue. It's a comedy of errors that causes any tragedy on the roads.
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