The decline of manual values
Discussion
Manuals will be gone. They were mostly used because they were cheaper and for smaller cars non viable. Modern autos make the manuals obsolete, EVs will put the nail in that coffin. They will be left for sports cars, weekend toys. Everyday cars… it’s old tech, stuck in time.
The enjoyment of the car is dwindling, most people drive because they have to. The roads are in bad condition, heavily controlled and busy. That Saturday morning drive is no longer that enjoyable. Haven’t bothered for years now.
The enthusiasts like us are a very small proportion of the market that’s why what we want or like doesn’t matter for the manufacturers. The truth is non-PistonHeads dictate the market trends…
The enjoyment of the car is dwindling, most people drive because they have to. The roads are in bad condition, heavily controlled and busy. That Saturday morning drive is no longer that enjoyable. Haven’t bothered for years now.
The enthusiasts like us are a very small proportion of the market that’s why what we want or like doesn’t matter for the manufacturers. The truth is non-PistonHeads dictate the market trends…
Honourable Dead Snark said:
I kind of regret going back to manual. Find it more of a hindrance more often than not so wouldn’t be surprised if this is my last unless I get to the point of having a daily + a weekend car.
I'm so used to either a DCT or an Auto in a daily, so when I jump in one of the manuals I have, they do feel quite a step back in some ways I have to agree(and I can't believe that I'm actually saying that though!). CRA1G said:
I'm sure this will be my last New Manual BMW ///M Car. I think they will be quite desirable in the years ahead. I'm keeping two or three others for that very reason and the weekend fun of course...
Manuals are desirable now because the people with money to splash on fun/old fun cars are in their forties and fifties. Such people learnt to drive in and owned manuals when they were younger. People starting to drive today will most likely only drive automatics/EVs so in twenty to thirty years, when they are buying cars that they wanted as youths, they won’t be after manuals. 
It's inevitable manuals will fade out. There was a time when manuals were considered faster but with the likes of DSG boxes they're not. Under most circumstances a decent torque converter type gearbox is quicker.
We're the odd ones though (me included) who would consider faster as not necessarily being better. I own both and I definitely enjoy driving a manual, even day to day it doesn't trouble me.
Convenience is what the average person prefers now though. It's why people opt for streaming over physical media, autos over manual, online shopping etc.
Us lot with our manuals will be seen in 20-30 years time in the same way we look at cars that need to be manually cranked to start! haha
I wouldn't be so confident about the 'clutches and stuff'. Autos aren't immune to costs, the conductor plate on my old S Class was nearly £1k to replace. Same conductor plate that's in every 7g Merc, you have gearbox servicing to consider too.
We're the odd ones though (me included) who would consider faster as not necessarily being better. I own both and I definitely enjoy driving a manual, even day to day it doesn't trouble me.
Convenience is what the average person prefers now though. It's why people opt for streaming over physical media, autos over manual, online shopping etc.
Us lot with our manuals will be seen in 20-30 years time in the same way we look at cars that need to be manually cranked to start! haha
TwigtheWonderkid said:
LuS1fer said:
Autos are boring and uninvolving and for as long as manual cars are made, I will continue to buy them.
Manuals are slow, thirsty, a pain in heavy traffic (which is only going to get heavier) and need replacement clutches and stuff. I think non enthusiast manual cars will just get rarer and rarer, they wont devalue any more quickly as will just be cheap wheels and they always have a value, until they have a challenging MOT and get scrapped.
I dont feel the need to choose auto or manual, I choose both, so many factors beyond just whether I am changing gear or the car, my next car will likely be an auto but will keep my manual one as long as I can, sometimes I feel I just need that level of interaction and relish it, other times it really gets on my tits !
I dont feel the need to choose auto or manual, I choose both, so many factors beyond just whether I am changing gear or the car, my next car will likely be an auto but will keep my manual one as long as I can, sometimes I feel I just need that level of interaction and relish it, other times it really gets on my tits !
Slightly off topic but a bit of an oddity imo. Someone passing their test in an automatic gets a licence that precludes driving manuals, fair enough. An American tourist who’s probably never driven or even travelled in a manual car can arrive in the UK, show their American licence and legally rent/drive a manual.
Does make me wonder what the market will be like for classics/modern classics with manuals. Could we see a day where the early automated manual Ferrari's/Lamborghini's etc start to be more valuable than the manual ones as the market shrinks.
Currently the market is hot for the manuals as thats what most of us learned to drive in and being of the TopGear generation we we're indoctrinated with the flappy paddle = bad mantra.
But say you're a young car enthusiast now who is coming of driving age, chances are you're coveting stuff like the Golf R, M4, Huracan etc. If you do well in 20 years time you would be hunting out the best example of those and a manual option is gone from that stuff. If you wanted to go old school you might want to try the really early F1/SMG gearboxes to see whats changed, but would you hunt out a manual? I suspect not.
Those youngsters will look at the millennial generation and previous thinking they are weird for obsessing over 3 pedals
Maybe thats just my hopium, all I want is a cheap manual GT3
Currently the market is hot for the manuals as thats what most of us learned to drive in and being of the TopGear generation we we're indoctrinated with the flappy paddle = bad mantra.
But say you're a young car enthusiast now who is coming of driving age, chances are you're coveting stuff like the Golf R, M4, Huracan etc. If you do well in 20 years time you would be hunting out the best example of those and a manual option is gone from that stuff. If you wanted to go old school you might want to try the really early F1/SMG gearboxes to see whats changed, but would you hunt out a manual? I suspect not.
Those youngsters will look at the millennial generation and previous thinking they are weird for obsessing over 3 pedals
Maybe thats just my hopium, all I want is a cheap manual GT3
FMOB said:
Audi are terrible for lag in the gearbox response, basically it is never there when you need it, absolute pile of s
te and this is the ZF8 that everyone raves about.
It's all in the software. If you drive an early M4, for instance, the gearbox is so horribly rough that low speed manoeuvres are actually unpleasant. This obviously translates to a snappy shift at higher speeds. te and this is the ZF8 that everyone raves about.Obviously as time has moved on they have improved since then.
My B9 RS4 was reasonably calm in Drive but far quicker in Sport. That's the balance I guess.
The same gearbox in a different car is set up completely differently, of course.
It isn't 'automatics' that have a problem, it's that the manufacturer sets them up in ways you don't like.
Some diehards like manuals and so demand will still be there .
Actually my kids both have manuals and I can't see them changing anytime soon.
The wife can't be bothered with a manual car and at the age of 55 I bought my first PDK Porsche.
It's so good I can't see me switching back.
Horses for courses I think
Actually my kids both have manuals and I can't see them changing anytime soon.
The wife can't be bothered with a manual car and at the age of 55 I bought my first PDK Porsche.
It's so good I can't see me switching back.
Horses for courses I think
richhead said:
... lets face it , most driving is either sitting in traffic or on a motorway, in no way would a auto not be a better choice.
CrgT16 said:
The enjoyment of the car is dwindling, most people drive because they have to. The roads are in bad condition, heavily controlled and busy. That Saturday morning drive is no longer that enjoyable. Haven’t bothered for years now.
Really sorry to hear this. It must be awful to be forced to live in such places if you love cars/driving. However, for those of us who live outside towns and cities, driving is great and cars are more capable than ever. The roads are pretty good, quiet, with little police presence or cameras. A motorway is something you have to drive to and heavy traffic is minimal. Manual or auto - both can be good choices depending on the car, though personally I find a manual a little more engaging in extremis, especially in a smaller engined/lower powered car where there is more of a need to change gear frequently. Who knows what the future will hold for their respective values, and indeed, who cares.
I agree, but would add that you do have to work out how to get the best out of any auto box. When you do it can be a lot of fun. For example, in my E85 Z4 in sport auto mode you can choose at what revs the gear changes by how much throttle you apply, and downchanges can be judged by the point you come off he throttle.
ETA I don't think too many gears helps make autos enjoyable. The ZF8 in my 235 seemed to be always shifting from one gear to another. OK for seamless cruising if that's what you want.
ETA I don't think too many gears helps make autos enjoyable. The ZF8 in my 235 seemed to be always shifting from one gear to another. OK for seamless cruising if that's what you want.
Edited by Sticks. on Wednesday 8th May 11:47
Manual gearboxes are simple old things - flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, release bearing. Very simple hydraulic operation with a master and slave cylinder. Cables to select the gears. Without being abused, they last most of the life of the car and if not, well within DIY capability. Far more involving on a driving and mechanical level but I do understand the modern generation only being interested in cars as appliances and a warranty.
So I'll stick with my 4 manual boxes, 3 of them on cars that are so small and compact that a heavy automatic would not be a great idea.
So I'll stick with my 4 manual boxes, 3 of them on cars that are so small and compact that a heavy automatic would not be a great idea.
TheOctaneAddict said:
Maybe thats just my hopium, all I want is a cheap manual GT3
I am down to one manual at this stage, my old 997 GT3 RS.Traffic where I live is fairly nightmarish, so the sad reality is that I probably put 500 miles a year on it. I have some PDK cars which for normal driving have the advantage that they can simply be driven as automatics, and some true automatics.
The poor old 997 spends a lot less time on the roads than it used to.
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