RE: Fancy owning the Austin Rover company name?
Discussion
2xChevrons said:
king arthur said:
Dashnine said:
Reading the article, I don’t think it’s even just Austin - it’s Austin Rover, just as it’s not just Rover.
I did see a list of the names still owned by various companies, can’t recall where Austin was. BMW still have the majority of the legacy BL names.
I'm fairly sure Austin went to SAIC along with Morris, whereas BMW kept Triumph and Riley.I did see a list of the names still owned by various companies, can’t recall where Austin was. BMW still have the majority of the legacy BL names.
Cars:
Austin (car and commercial) - Dormant, name owned by SAIC, Longbridge factory nearly all demolished
Vanden Plas - Dormant, owned by JLR
Morris (cars) - Dormant, named owned by SAIC, Cowley factory demolished in the late 1990s
MG - active, owned by SAIC, design office at Longbridge, production in China
Wolseley - dormant, owned by SAIC. Washwood Heath factory ended up as the LDV plant, closed in 2008
Riley - dormant, owned by BMW
Triumph - dormant, owned by BMW (car and bike operations split in the 1930s)
Rover (and Land Rover) - dormant, owned by JLR. Land Rover obviously very much still around.
Jaguar - obvious
Daimler - dormant, owned by JLR
Authi - closed down in 1975, factory is now the main VW Polo plant
Innocenti - sold by BL in 1976, became part of DeTomaso and closed in 1997.
Leyland Australia - production ceased in 1976, division sold by BL in 1982, became a bus/truck importer, bankrupt in 1998. The old Standard Motor Company factory in Melbourne was sold to Toyota in 1989 and closed in 1994.
Leykor (South Africa) - closed in 1984, sold to Chrysler.
Commercials:
Leyland Trucks - sold to DAF, then became part of Pacaar. Still a distinct and Leyland-based firm, builds all DAF 7.5tonners and RHD DAF HGVs. Bus division split from trucks in 1987, sold to Volvo in 1988, factory closed in 1994.
Scammell - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle in 1988.
Daimler -merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Guy - part of Jaguar pre-BL merger, merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1982
AEC - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1979
Aveling-Barford - Spun-off from Leyland in 1988, made Barford dumper trucks until 2010.
Bristol Commercials - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1983
Albion Motors - merged into Leyland Trucks, see above, last commercial vehicle built in 1980. Spun-off and now owned by American Axle, still building driveline components in Glasgow.
Charles Roe - spun-off from Leyland in 1984 and became Optare. Now part of Ashok-Leyland.
Park Royal Vehicles - closed down in 1980.
Morris Commercial: Owned by SAIC and dormant until 2017, now UK-owned and developing the JE retro electric van.
Military:
Alvis - privatised in 1981,now part of BAE, name dormant since 2004.
Daimler - military vehicles ceased production in 1971.
Body:
Pressed Steel Fisher - Name dropped in 1994, the PSF plants became BMW Plants Oxford and Swindon.
Autobody Dies - uncertain.Probably didn't survive much past the closure of the Triumph Canley plant.
Industrial:
Leyland Tractors (ex-Nuffield) - sold to Marshall in 1982, production stopped in 1992. Some ex-Leyland designs still built in Turkey.
Coventry Climax - spun-off from BL in 1982, bankrupt in 1986. Now part of Cargotec, Coventry factory closed in 2009.
Invicta Bridge & Engineering - uncertain.
Miscellaneous:
SU Carburettors - sold by Rover in 1996, rights to the name, products and production in the hands of a new 'SU Carb Co' near Salisbury
Butec Electrical - sold to Prestolite in 1988, factory in Leyland closed in 2009.
Prestcold Fridges - spun-off in 1981, purchased by Copeland Compressors in 1983, name last used in the 1990s.
Fisholow Prefab Buildings - uncertain.
Nuffield Press - sold by BL in 1986 to Robert Maxwell. Then to Reed, then closed in 2011.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Thursday 9th May 08:57
There was a point in the Early 90s when the parent company DAF went into receivership, and a local management buy out retained about 200 employees.
At some point PACCAR bought DAF, then later bought Leyland Trucks, and put them back together.
We are tiny compared to our sister company in Eindhoven. (I had a week there back in early April.), but we do alot more customer specials here which all go down the main assembly line.
The other week a bloke retired after just 48 years. I can't imagine working for the same company for so long.
Register1 said:
Once again, I see the Chinese buying this.
They could throw £Billion at it, and make their money back.
So who else has money on the same scale as BYD or SAIC or GEELY or CHERRY to name a few.
Why? You can’t call any cars Austin’s as SAIC already own it, you can’t call them Rovers as JLR own Rover. You might be able to call them AustinRovers but both SAIC and JLR would probably have you in court faster than the 6R4 you’d own some drawings for.They could throw £Billion at it, and make their money back.
So who else has money on the same scale as BYD or SAIC or GEELY or CHERRY to name a few.
Pit Pony said:
Don't know the exact details. But it was a win win situation for everyone but VW.
After Rolls-Royce's bankruptcy and restructuring (where the aero and car divisions were financially separated), the car division was sold to Vickers in 1980. Vickers owned the Crewe factory and the rights to the car products and patents as well as the R-R automotive 'back catalogue' and model names, plus the full rights to the 'Greek temple' radiator grille and Spirit of Ecstacy trademarks. It also had full ownership of the Bentley portfolio, name and logo. But Rolls-Royce Limited retained rights to the Rolls-Royce name and the interwoven-R logo, which Vickers was allowed to use on the cars under licence.
By the 1990s Vickers was using BMW drivetrains in R-R and Bentley cars and was looking to sell. At the last minute VW put in a higher bid than BMW and ended up with the 'Crewe package' - Everything except the R-R name and badge.
Rolls-Royce Limited (the aero engine people) already had a joint venture with BMW building jet engines in Germany and didn't think VW would be a suitable custodian, so licensed the name to BMW - giving them the name and the badge but no factory and no rights to any existing or previous R-R automotive design.
BMW played hardball by threatening to cut off its supply of engines to Crewe (which is what led to the return of the old OHV V8 in the 'Red Label' Bentleys) but in the end that continued in return for BMW receiving the rights to the grille, Spirit of Ecstasy and the Phantom model name after five years.
This was enough time for BMW to found Rolls-Royce Motors, build the Goodwood factory and design a virtually clean-sheet product.
After 2002, VW could no longer build cars with the R-R name, badge, grille or mascot, only Bentleys. But it does retain the entire Crewe back catalogue, so if it wanted to re-use an old R-R model name like Silver Cloud it could. It could even build a 'continuation' Silver Cloud if it wanted...except it would have to be as a Bentley S-type because it couldn't use the R-R grille.
It's actually Bentley that has the historical, technical and corporate continuity right back to the days of the Silver Ghost. Apart from the name and trademarks nothing on the current Rolls-Royces has a heritage further back than 2001.
So this auction is for
-a company which has the name Austin-Rover, but realistically nothing whatsoever to do with it (having been set up in 2013 and dormant ever since),
-a Hotmail email address
-some drawings, for a car, which was in fact branded as an MG
If you used, MG, Austin, Rover or indeed Austin-Rover you'd soon be sued.
Great buy for someone. If it sells, next week I will have Jaguar Daimler Ltd for sale with a drawing of a Roller and then Shelby Cobra Ltd with a picture of a Ferrari the week after.
-a company which has the name Austin-Rover, but realistically nothing whatsoever to do with it (having been set up in 2013 and dormant ever since),
-a Hotmail email address
-some drawings, for a car, which was in fact branded as an MG
If you used, MG, Austin, Rover or indeed Austin-Rover you'd soon be sued.
Great buy for someone. If it sells, next week I will have Jaguar Daimler Ltd for sale with a drawing of a Roller and then Shelby Cobra Ltd with a picture of a Ferrari the week after.
olof3528 said:
Lots of interesting, if sad, facts and compilations here. The most successful part of BL was, I belive, Unipart, and I think it’s still going strong. Too bad there are no real BL cars left to support with spares
Ironically Unipart had a consultancy arm that pedalled LEAN improvements to other manufacturing organisations. Mind you so did Lucas, in the early 1990s via Lucas Emgineering and Systems Ltd, under Professor John Parnaby, before we knew it as Lean. Before that it was "Worlds best practice manufacturing systems redesign taskforces" that we flogged.
2xChevrons said:
Pit Pony said:
Don't know the exact details. But it was a win win situation for everyone but VW.
After Rolls-Royce's bankruptcy and restructuring (where the aero and car divisions were financially separated), the car division was sold to Vickers in 1980. Vickers owned the Crewe factory and the rights to the car products and patents as well as the R-R automotive 'back catalogue' and model names, plus the full rights to the 'Greek temple' radiator grille and Spirit of Ecstacy trademarks. It also had full ownership of the Bentley portfolio, name and logo. But Rolls-Royce Limited retained rights to the Rolls-Royce name and the interwoven-R logo, which Vickers was allowed to use on the cars under licence.
By the 1990s Vickers was using BMW drivetrains in R-R and Bentley cars and was looking to sell. At the last minute VW put in a higher bid than BMW and ended up with the 'Crewe package' - Everything except the R-R name and badge.
Rolls-Royce Limited (the aero engine people) already had a joint venture with BMW building jet engines in Germany and didn't think VW would be a suitable custodian, so licensed the name to BMW - giving them the name and the badge but no factory and no rights to any existing or previous R-R automotive design.
BMW played hardball by threatening to cut off its supply of engines to Crewe (which is what led to the return of the old OHV V8 in the 'Red Label' Bentleys) but in the end that continued in return for BMW receiving the rights to the grille, Spirit of Ecstasy and the Phantom model name after five years.
This was enough time for BMW to found Rolls-Royce Motors, build the Goodwood factory and design a virtually clean-sheet product.
After 2002, VW could no longer build cars with the R-R name, badge, grille or mascot, only Bentleys. But it does retain the entire Crewe back catalogue, so if it wanted to re-use an old R-R model name like Silver Cloud it could. It could even build a 'continuation' Silver Cloud if it wanted...except it would have to be as a Bentley S-type because it couldn't use the R-R grille.
It's actually Bentley that has the historical, technical and corporate continuity right back to the days of the Silver Ghost. Apart from the name and trademarks nothing on the current Rolls-Royces has a heritage further back than 2001.
Pit Pony said:
Ironically Unipart had a consultancy arm that pedalled LEAN improvements to other manufacturing organisations.
Mind you so did Lucas, in the early 1990s via Lucas Emgineering and Systems Ltd, under Professor John Parnaby, before we knew it as Lean. Before that it was "Worlds best practice manufacturing systems redesign taskforces" that we flogged.
The first car factory in the world to be purpose-built to use Just-in-Time logistics and Lean manufacturing processes was the Nuffield Australia plant in Victoria Park, Sydney, opened in 1947.Mind you so did Lucas, in the early 1990s via Lucas Emgineering and Systems Ltd, under Professor John Parnaby, before we knew it as Lean. Before that it was "Worlds best practice manufacturing systems redesign taskforces" that we flogged.
In the 1920s Frank Woollard was general manager of Morris Engines and converted the factory from batch to flow production. He was the first to formalise and implement automation on an industrial scale (fitting out Morris Engines with automatic transfer machinery), as the progression from Henry Ford's industrial system of mechanised (rather than automated) workstations. He conceptualised the idea of logistical 'supermarkets' that hold a calculated pool of components that are continually being withdrawn for use as new shipments come in, and to recognise the advantages in capital control and quality control from Just-in-Time supply rather than large warehouse stocks. Morris Engines was the first factory in the world to adopt U-shaped 'cells' at each workstation for optimised work ergonomics. Woollard's writings also laid out what he saw as the two key concepts of his progressive management system - what he called Continual Improvement and Respect for People.
The success of Woollard's concepts at Morris Engines meant that the Nuffield Australia factory was designed and built from the ground up to make full use of them. British-owned car factories in Australia faced very similar problems to those in Japan - a limited pool of skilled labour, high energy costs, a reliance on imports for key materials and components and a very long logistical 'tail'.
Kiichiro Toyoda and Taiichi Ohno were already developing what would become the Toyota Production System by the late 1940s, combining their own experiences with the work of Frederick Taylor, Henry Ford and Frank Woollard, plus the lectures and papers provided in Japan by W.E. Deming. They visited the Nuffield Australia factory shortly after it opened and took copious notes about its theories, processes and design.
Unfortunately any hope of Woollard's principles being adopted more widely in the Nuffield Organisation died after the merger with Austin. And so passed yet another example of British innovation being exploited to the full by others.
americancrx said:
At one point, weren't they referred to as British Leyland Austin Rover Group?
BLARG must surely make the Hall of Fame of Unfortunate Acronyms, next to the Conservative Reform Alliance Party in Canada.
AFAIK that was never an official name - certainly not a public facing one. BLARG must surely make the Hall of Fame of Unfortunate Acronyms, next to the Conservative Reform Alliance Party in Canada.
The 1982 restructuring that produced the Austin-Rover brand ended up with:
1) The top level umbrella corporation still officially registered as British Leyland but publicly branded as 'BL plc'.
2) Once the Triumph and Morris marques had been withdrawn, that left what had been the Car Division with just Austin and Rover, which became the 'Austin-Rover Group' with the blue and green logo and effectively the new corporate identity as far as most of the general public was concerned.
3) Land Rover had been a division in its own right since 1979 and now LR and Range Rover became related but distinct marques for marketing purposes. The Sherpa van became the Freight Rover and LR, RR and FR formed the 'Freight Rover Group' making light commercials.
4) Leyland Truck & Bus made heavy commercials - like LR and RR there were marketing distinctions between the truck and bus products even if they were the same group.
5) Jaguar continued its semi-independent existence and became Jaguar Car Holdings in preparation for sell-off, which happened in 1984.
Maybe someone used the 'BL-ARG' acronym somewhere, but it wasn't official.
Michael Kitt said:
Love all the negative comments about Austin Rover Group Ltd then Austin Rover ltd. If you check out the full facts the whole company name was passed over as we were using the motorsport cars under the AR logo .
So as the owner / seller of the company - what are you selling, who is 'we'?2xChevrons said:
Alvis - privatised in 1981,now part of BAE, name dormant since 2004.
Alvis has been revived as a car brand and is building 'continuation' versions of some its classic models, I learned today.https://thealviscarcompany.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ae_JGOOjv8
Apparently after being taken over by Rover in the 1960s, Alvis pulled out of car making to concentrate on military vehicles, but the car spares business and archive of drawings etc was hived off as Red Triangle, which was itself eventually bought by an entrepreneur who reacquired the rights to the Alvis name and started making cars again.
But only in tiny numbers at about £300,000 each, apparently.
Proves that it is possible for someone to buy back one of the ex-BL brands though.
Alvis' military vehicle side was indeed subsumed into BL, later BAE, as quoted above.
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