Are affordable cars that drive well a thing of the past?
Discussion
I drive a 10 year old, 130,000 mile mk7 Golf estate and am a Plant Engineer at a small factory (less than 100 employees), so my colleagues assume that I earn the big bucks (I don’t) but most of them drive newer, more expensive cars than me and question why I still drive “that old thing”!
Back in October, a deer ran into the side of my Golf damaging the front wing, headlight and two passenger doors rendering the passenger door inoperable but fortunately it was still drivable. I think that the insurance company were very close to writing it off but having done some research on replacement values (as it is a very high spec car), they finally relented and agreed to fix it but due to parts being on back order it only went in this week to get fixed.
Which brings me to my point. I’m currently driving a brand new Vauxhall Mokka hire car whilst mine is being repaired. Driving a brand new car, whether it be a courtesy or hire car always used to be a rare treat and almost always better than whatever old thing that I was driving but I’m not getting that with the Mokka and already missing the Golf. Don’t get me wrong, I’m grateful to have a replacement vehicle whilst mine is getting prepared and I’m not one of those people who gets sniffy because they think the replacement car is a “downgrade”, as long as it gets me to where I need to go, I don’t really care. It’s just that shouldn’t I like it better and everyone at work says that’s more like it, my son thinks that it looks quite cool (and to be fair it does, I don’t have an issue with that) and likes the big touchscreen and the Wifi hotspot and it’s perfectly adequate to drive but leaves me completely cold and there are some aspects that are less impressive than my 10 year old car. Yes, I know it's a Vauxhall and they've generally been pretty uninspiring over the years but I do like some of the older ones (Carlton/Senator/Nova) and the mk4 Astra (late 90s/early 200s) was a surprising outlier that was as good as the mk1 Focus to drive in many ways.
I’m not saying that the mk7 Golf is one of the all-time great driver’s cars but the ergonomics are spot on, the seats comfortable, the engine responsive (1.4 TSI), it’s really economical, the steering has some weight and feedback and is linear, as are the brakes and the ride whilst on the firm side of comfortable, the suspension does at least seem to breathe with the road surface.
In contrast, I don’t find the seats in the Mokka very comfortable, the ergonomics are a little off ie the dash is a digital iPad-style affair and is angled down slightly but the steering wheel doesn’t adjust high enough for my liking and on the first day, I pressed a button by accident on the steering wheel, lost the radio station that I was listening to and haven’t worked out how to get it back yet! I believe that it’s a 3-pot turbo with an automatic transmission but feels really laggy and although the fuel economy isn’t terrible, it’s not a patch on the 10 year old Golf. The steering has zero weight and feedback and isn’t at all linear. The turn-in is overly sharp and then seems to slow down thereafter making it difficult to make smooth inputs, the brake pedal seems a little high and firm. You need to give it a firm shove and then it brakes probably a little harder than you want it to and it’s more susceptible to side winds than the Golf. The tyres are higher profile than my Golf and it looks like it should ride well and should have decent suspension travel but the ride feels very brittle and it feels a little overdamped, as it doesn’t deal very well with bumpy roads and the interior quality feels very “cheap” in comparison to the Golf.
I did actually have an old-shape Mokka diesel as a holiday rental a few years ago and it was surprisingly decent. Horrible looking thing and a cheap and nasty GM interior but the steering was surprisingly good (possibly still hydraulic?), the 1.7 diesel was punchy and economical if a little laggy and it actually dealt with the bumpy roads pretty well. Not a car that I would ever want to own but it exceeded my expectations as transport.
I don’t think this is just a thing with non-premium cars either. My MIL has a new Evoque (she had a 1st gen Evoque previously) and although the new one does drive better than the old one, I still don’t think that the new one drives as nice as my Golf. Not bad and better than the Mokka I would say but not as well as I would expect it to drive and I would expect the same to be true of quite a few modern Audis, BMWs and Mercedes too.
Now I’m sure that there are more niche cars (hot hatches/sports cars etc) that would impress me (Civic Type R/MX5/GR86/GR Yaris etc) but they’re either not practical or affordable for me and to be fair with the exception of the brakes lacking a bit of power, my wife’s 2021 Mazda CX5 gets most of the driving stuff right and I was actually quite impressed with the brand new Honda CRV hybrid that we had as a courtesy car for a couple of weeks when it went in for some warranty work last year but that was a 50k vehicle!
I did look at some modest “upgrade” options when I thought they were going to write off my Golf but I found all of them utterly uninspiring, so when insurance agreed to fix, I saw no reason to change it. So there used to be ordinary middle-of-the-road cars that drove really well (Fiesta/Focus/Mondeo, Peugeot 306/406, Nissan Primera and I actually have a soft spot for 90s/2000s Rovers) and in any given class, there was usually a "go to" driver's choice but manufacturers seems to have given up on that? I didn’t think the mk8 Fiesta drove as well as the mk7 Fiesta for example. Do people just not value a sweet driving car any more or are they only interested in styling, badge and tech? Are there still any ordinary, affordable, non-performance/luxury cars that still drive really well?
Back in October, a deer ran into the side of my Golf damaging the front wing, headlight and two passenger doors rendering the passenger door inoperable but fortunately it was still drivable. I think that the insurance company were very close to writing it off but having done some research on replacement values (as it is a very high spec car), they finally relented and agreed to fix it but due to parts being on back order it only went in this week to get fixed.
Which brings me to my point. I’m currently driving a brand new Vauxhall Mokka hire car whilst mine is being repaired. Driving a brand new car, whether it be a courtesy or hire car always used to be a rare treat and almost always better than whatever old thing that I was driving but I’m not getting that with the Mokka and already missing the Golf. Don’t get me wrong, I’m grateful to have a replacement vehicle whilst mine is getting prepared and I’m not one of those people who gets sniffy because they think the replacement car is a “downgrade”, as long as it gets me to where I need to go, I don’t really care. It’s just that shouldn’t I like it better and everyone at work says that’s more like it, my son thinks that it looks quite cool (and to be fair it does, I don’t have an issue with that) and likes the big touchscreen and the Wifi hotspot and it’s perfectly adequate to drive but leaves me completely cold and there are some aspects that are less impressive than my 10 year old car. Yes, I know it's a Vauxhall and they've generally been pretty uninspiring over the years but I do like some of the older ones (Carlton/Senator/Nova) and the mk4 Astra (late 90s/early 200s) was a surprising outlier that was as good as the mk1 Focus to drive in many ways.
I’m not saying that the mk7 Golf is one of the all-time great driver’s cars but the ergonomics are spot on, the seats comfortable, the engine responsive (1.4 TSI), it’s really economical, the steering has some weight and feedback and is linear, as are the brakes and the ride whilst on the firm side of comfortable, the suspension does at least seem to breathe with the road surface.
In contrast, I don’t find the seats in the Mokka very comfortable, the ergonomics are a little off ie the dash is a digital iPad-style affair and is angled down slightly but the steering wheel doesn’t adjust high enough for my liking and on the first day, I pressed a button by accident on the steering wheel, lost the radio station that I was listening to and haven’t worked out how to get it back yet! I believe that it’s a 3-pot turbo with an automatic transmission but feels really laggy and although the fuel economy isn’t terrible, it’s not a patch on the 10 year old Golf. The steering has zero weight and feedback and isn’t at all linear. The turn-in is overly sharp and then seems to slow down thereafter making it difficult to make smooth inputs, the brake pedal seems a little high and firm. You need to give it a firm shove and then it brakes probably a little harder than you want it to and it’s more susceptible to side winds than the Golf. The tyres are higher profile than my Golf and it looks like it should ride well and should have decent suspension travel but the ride feels very brittle and it feels a little overdamped, as it doesn’t deal very well with bumpy roads and the interior quality feels very “cheap” in comparison to the Golf.
I did actually have an old-shape Mokka diesel as a holiday rental a few years ago and it was surprisingly decent. Horrible looking thing and a cheap and nasty GM interior but the steering was surprisingly good (possibly still hydraulic?), the 1.7 diesel was punchy and economical if a little laggy and it actually dealt with the bumpy roads pretty well. Not a car that I would ever want to own but it exceeded my expectations as transport.
I don’t think this is just a thing with non-premium cars either. My MIL has a new Evoque (she had a 1st gen Evoque previously) and although the new one does drive better than the old one, I still don’t think that the new one drives as nice as my Golf. Not bad and better than the Mokka I would say but not as well as I would expect it to drive and I would expect the same to be true of quite a few modern Audis, BMWs and Mercedes too.
Now I’m sure that there are more niche cars (hot hatches/sports cars etc) that would impress me (Civic Type R/MX5/GR86/GR Yaris etc) but they’re either not practical or affordable for me and to be fair with the exception of the brakes lacking a bit of power, my wife’s 2021 Mazda CX5 gets most of the driving stuff right and I was actually quite impressed with the brand new Honda CRV hybrid that we had as a courtesy car for a couple of weeks when it went in for some warranty work last year but that was a 50k vehicle!
I did look at some modest “upgrade” options when I thought they were going to write off my Golf but I found all of them utterly uninspiring, so when insurance agreed to fix, I saw no reason to change it. So there used to be ordinary middle-of-the-road cars that drove really well (Fiesta/Focus/Mondeo, Peugeot 306/406, Nissan Primera and I actually have a soft spot for 90s/2000s Rovers) and in any given class, there was usually a "go to" driver's choice but manufacturers seems to have given up on that? I didn’t think the mk8 Fiesta drove as well as the mk7 Fiesta for example. Do people just not value a sweet driving car any more or are they only interested in styling, badge and tech? Are there still any ordinary, affordable, non-performance/luxury cars that still drive really well?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 9th May 16:49
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 9th May 16:51
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 9th May 16:52
I am inclined to agree.
We have a 7 year old Mondeo estate and an 11 year old Focus hatch (a model with independent rear suspension).
They both still drive very well and have all of the features that we need (and many that we don't).
Although we could easily afford to buy/PCP new cars, I am in no rush to replace these ordinary Fords.
We have a 7 year old Mondeo estate and an 11 year old Focus hatch (a model with independent rear suspension).
They both still drive very well and have all of the features that we need (and many that we don't).
Although we could easily afford to buy/PCP new cars, I am in no rush to replace these ordinary Fords.
Hold on, it's been strongly argued in another topic that no one finds lower-priced brand new cars impressive and no one attaches a positive image to them....
That aside, maybe it's VW vs Vauxhall rather than old vs new? I wouldn't necessarily expect a new Vauxhall to feel better than a 10(?) year old VW.
That aside, maybe it's VW vs Vauxhall rather than old vs new? I wouldn't necessarily expect a new Vauxhall to feel better than a 10(?) year old VW.
I skim-read that so apologies if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick...
Sheds that would run for 10-12 months without fault and came with a full MOT for £700 are long gone (used to be possible about 10 years ago). s
tboxes with a full MOT are now being sold for £2-3k even if they're 25 years old and in a terrible state. The rise in premium cars has encouraged everyone to take the piss. But counter that with the fact that if you do have a car on FB marketplace for £700 that IS in the right condition for its age (as sheds were 10 years ago), some pillock will expect it to be in showroom condition like the day it came off the forecourt with 3 miles on the clock.
Sheds that would run for 10-12 months without fault and came with a full MOT for £700 are long gone (used to be possible about 10 years ago). s
tboxes with a full MOT are now being sold for £2-3k even if they're 25 years old and in a terrible state. The rise in premium cars has encouraged everyone to take the piss. But counter that with the fact that if you do have a car on FB marketplace for £700 that IS in the right condition for its age (as sheds were 10 years ago), some pillock will expect it to be in showroom condition like the day it came off the forecourt with 3 miles on the clock.Hoofy said:
I skim-read that so apologies if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick...
Sheds that would run for 10-12 months without fault and came with a full MOT for £700 are long gone (used to be possible about 10 years ago). stboxes with a full MOT are now being sold for £2-3k even if they're 25 years old and in a terrible state. The rise in premium cars has encouraged everyone to take the piss. But counter that with the fact that if you do have a car on FB marketplace for £700 that IS in the right condition for its age (as sheds were 10 years ago), some pillock will expect it to be in showroom condition like the day it came off the forecourt with 3 miles on the clock.
Absolutely. My cousin just bought his son a 2008 Fiesta Zetec (the boxy one) in that purply metallic colour for 900 notes. Only 104k. Looks really clean. I'm guessing the only issue with something like that might be rust but yeah, I'd drive that over most new vehicles.Sheds that would run for 10-12 months without fault and came with a full MOT for £700 are long gone (used to be possible about 10 years ago). s
tboxes with a full MOT are now being sold for £2-3k even if they're 25 years old and in a terrible state. The rise in premium cars has encouraged everyone to take the piss. But counter that with the fact that if you do have a car on FB marketplace for £700 that IS in the right condition for its age (as sheds were 10 years ago), some pillock will expect it to be in showroom condition like the day it came off the forecourt with 3 miles on the clock.Limited on characters for the title, so I was referring more to new/newish affordable cars ie less than 7 years old but you can still get a very serviceable older car that drives well for not much money but we're conditioned to think that newer is better and it seems irratioonal to replace a newer car with an older one?
The powers that be don’t want us to enjoy driving.
They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
Natpen79 said:
The powers that be don’t want us to enjoy driving.
They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
Nice! Legacy Estate? So one FWD, one RWD and one AWD?They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
white_goodman said:
Natpen79 said:
The powers that be don’t want us to enjoy driving.
They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
Nice! Legacy Estate? So one FWD, one RWD and one AWD?They want us to drive round in electro assisted silence.
So until I can afford a new type R ( probably never) I will continue with my current fleet of old but enjoyable car’s that make me smile when I look at them, get me to where I need to be and make other people smile ( or sometimes laugh). All good to drive in their own way.
Here’s my three, the fourth being the wife’s Zafira that isn’t worthy of a mention on here.
I was given a C3 Aircross hire car, this week.
In fairness, it drives quite well and even has some urge to it but god, it's the ugliest car I've ever driven and I hate everything about it, especially the gear knob which is brick-shaped. Why?
I also hate the touchscreen which is garbage. The one in my Insignia B SRi was great so why is this so appalling?
I love driving my 2004 Mustang and my two 169 Pandas and also my MX5RF, though the satnav in that is rubbish.
In fairness, it drives quite well and even has some urge to it but god, it's the ugliest car I've ever driven and I hate everything about it, especially the gear knob which is brick-shaped. Why?
I also hate the touchscreen which is garbage. The one in my Insignia B SRi was great so why is this so appalling?
I love driving my 2004 Mustang and my two 169 Pandas and also my MX5RF, though the satnav in that is rubbish.
I'm in an 11 year old Freelander 2 with 133000 miles on it. It's immaculate and does everything I need it to. I'm struggling to find anything to replace it with that actually ticks all the boxes it does that doesn't cost £60k, suffer overly complicated modern engine emissions systems or be so fragile if will spend more time in the dealers than on my drive.
Best I can find currently is a Subaru Outback but even that is petrol only, cvt gearbox and low mpg.
Best I can find currently is a Subaru Outback but even that is petrol only, cvt gearbox and low mpg.
LightweightLouisDanvers said:
I'm in an 11 year old Freelander 2 with 133000 miles on it. It's immaculate and does everything I need it to. I'm struggling to find anything to replace it with that actually ticks all the boxes it does that doesn't cost £60k, suffer overly complicated modern engine emissions systems or be so fragile if will spend more time in the dealers than on my drive.
Best I can find currently is a Subaru Outback but even that is petrol only, cvt gearbox and low mpg.
Did you look at a Discovery Sport? I quite like the look of them but have yet to drive one. Ingenium diesel is best avoided by all accounts but is the petrol/hybrid one ok? The MIL's Evoque has the petrol Ingenium and that has been OK reliability-wise. I think the early Disco Sports had the same (Ford?) diesel engine as the Freelander 2 though?Best I can find currently is a Subaru Outback but even that is petrol only, cvt gearbox and low mpg.
Op, I totaly get what you mean, we also have an old golf thats getting very tired and on 250k miles, and its due an mot soon, so have been looking for something newer, we will keep it it it gets through the mot okish, but its due a cambelt soon. Everything we have looked at is very uninspiring, and surprisingly expensive.
And all the nanny features are a real put off, as are the obsession with ipads on the dash.
And all the nanny features are a real put off, as are the obsession with ipads on the dash.
richhead said:
Op, I totaly get what you mean, we also have an old golf thats getting very tired and on 250k miles, and its due an mot soon, so have been looking for something newer, we will keep it it it gets through the mot okish, but its due a cambelt soon. Everything we have looked at is very uninspiring, and surprisingly expensive.
And all the nanny features are a real put off, as are the obsession with ipads on the dash.
Timing belts are cheap compared with newer carsAnd all the nanny features are a real put off, as are the obsession with ipads on the dash.
I have a 2016 Golf Alltrack. All 150 bhp of it. TDI
I bought it in Jan 23 it replaced a lovely Q5 that came to the end of the lease.
The Audi probably cost me £17k to lease. I had it for 3 yrs and 32000m
I bought the Golf for £12.5k
Probably put 30000m on it in that time
I far prefer the Golf although it's had its faults. And bills.
The driving experience is far less stressful.
I too often drive rental cars for work. I still prefer the Golf although I was surprised that I liked a Peugeot 2008 as much as I did. And my Golf is a manual and I always ask for an auto rental.
I bought it in Jan 23 it replaced a lovely Q5 that came to the end of the lease.
The Audi probably cost me £17k to lease. I had it for 3 yrs and 32000m
I bought the Golf for £12.5k
Probably put 30000m on it in that time
I far prefer the Golf although it's had its faults. And bills.
The driving experience is far less stressful.
I too often drive rental cars for work. I still prefer the Golf although I was surprised that I liked a Peugeot 2008 as much as I did. And my Golf is a manual and I always ask for an auto rental.
I didn't read the whole OP, because I potentially only have another 40 years or so to live, but I don't think it's a new phenomenon that some brand new cars are worse to drive than some older ones. When I used to get hire cars from work around 2003-2006 they were mostly much worse to drive than my 1998 Rover 200, the Peugeot 307s being a particularly memorable lowlight. Some cars are just rubbish from new, that's always been the case.
For the price, the Golf Mk7 is a very well engineered car, with no weaknesses. The Mk8.5 is on evolution of the MQB platform, that was launched 11 years ago, and its still considered good enough in 2025, although best competitors like the Honda Civic are said to run it close or better it, depending on the reviewer.
When I was replacing my 13 year old Mk6, non of the brand new C segment family SUV’s had the same level of engineering apart from the Volvo XC40, and that car is still regarded as one of the best cars in its class, what, 8 years after launch? Even the new shape Kia Sportage, the NVH, ride, damping and suspension sophistication were a noticeable step down.
To get a decent improvement in quality and sophistication over a Golf you’d have to step up to a D segment prestige car. C Class, 3 Series etc.
The Mokka is B segment, so going the wrong way if you want to see quality engineering.
If I were looking at getting a C Segment hatch again, my top choices would be the Golf Mk8.5, Audi A3, Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. Bet your sentiments would be different if you were given one of these as a hire car, although they wouldn’t show much improvement over a Mk7 Golf. The main developments these days are in electronic and infotainment systems, ADAS etc.
When I was replacing my 13 year old Mk6, non of the brand new C segment family SUV’s had the same level of engineering apart from the Volvo XC40, and that car is still regarded as one of the best cars in its class, what, 8 years after launch? Even the new shape Kia Sportage, the NVH, ride, damping and suspension sophistication were a noticeable step down.
To get a decent improvement in quality and sophistication over a Golf you’d have to step up to a D segment prestige car. C Class, 3 Series etc.
The Mokka is B segment, so going the wrong way if you want to see quality engineering.
If I were looking at getting a C Segment hatch again, my top choices would be the Golf Mk8.5, Audi A3, Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. Bet your sentiments would be different if you were given one of these as a hire car, although they wouldn’t show much improvement over a Mk7 Golf. The main developments these days are in electronic and infotainment systems, ADAS etc.
Edited by wyson on Saturday 10th May 05:26
E63eeeeee... said:
I didn't read the whole OP, because I potentially only have another 40 years or so to live, but I don't think it's a new phenomenon that some brand new cars are worse to drive than some older ones. When I used to get hire cars from work around 2003-2006 they were mostly much worse to drive than my 1998 Rover 200, the Peugeot 307s being a particularly memorable lowlight. Some cars are just rubbish from new, that's always been the case.
Are there many rubbish new cars though? I'm not sure if they're bad just competent and very dull. If competent and dull is the new normal then surely that doesn't make them "bad". 307 is a good example of the new car being a turd compared to its predecessor though.I have a 2018 Audi A5 Cabriolet with the (rare) 3.0 TDI 286bhp engine. It has an innocuous TDI Quattro badge on the back. It's an great car to drive. Yes, i know it's an Audi, and A5, a convertible and all that, and that Evo and Top Gear hate it, but on a summer evening, top down, it's fantastic. and with 457lb/ft, it has left a good few 'performance cars' for dead (once the turbo finally spools up) Depends what you want from a car.. not everyone wants a noisy, uncomfortable car that changes direction like a housefly. riding the huge wave of torque can be fun too.!
Got a 2007 Passat sport TDI bought at 43k other than routine servicing never let me down now covered 140k.56 mpg on a run. Just bought the wife a 2013 A1 sport line TDI 2 owners 55k full Audi service history £20 rfl and 60 mpg. You can keep the newer cars. A mates just bought new BMW was horrified at tax especially as he trade similar model just older than was £30 tax a year..
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