Discussion
Looking at the 997 GTS and everywhere i read they seem to be a complete drivers car, always wanted a newish 911 but i also do look at resale values when i buy something, with the new model 991 now out are the 997 GTS models likely to crash or stay at a decent level. I am more classic car (porsche obviously) orientated but am now thinking that a more modern car is needed now i have young family.
any thaughts on the GTS or other options
any thaughts on the GTS or other options
I suppose a GTS is likely to suffer less depreciation than its equivalent model year carrera S/4s and the 991 is going to suffer more depreciation than either (as it's newer).
I didn't find the GTS sufficiently 'better' than the gen2 S I did buy to justify the extra £20k at the time. But were I in the market now, I wouldn't discount it, they seem to command a smaller premium.
If you want a manual, there are very few GTS about but they seem to be cheaper than their PDK equivalents. Few gen2 S/4s manual about too.
Don't bother with 991 manual, it's awful.
If PDK then take your pick and drive examples of all and make decision based on that. 991 is the better car for a family, bit more spacious inside and better rear accommodation.
No right or wrong in this, buy the car you like the most but expect the largest hit on depreciation in a 991.
I didn't find the GTS sufficiently 'better' than the gen2 S I did buy to justify the extra £20k at the time. But were I in the market now, I wouldn't discount it, they seem to command a smaller premium.
If you want a manual, there are very few GTS about but they seem to be cheaper than their PDK equivalents. Few gen2 S/4s manual about too.
Don't bother with 991 manual, it's awful.
If PDK then take your pick and drive examples of all and make decision based on that. 991 is the better car for a family, bit more spacious inside and better rear accommodation.
No right or wrong in this, buy the car you like the most but expect the largest hit on depreciation in a 991.
I had a long look at a GTS; it’s a great car and sufficiently ‘different’ from the C2S to make a real difference – it sounded considerably better for instance.
If you can find one, I would take it in preference to the C2S all day long. Manual with the short shift is the sweet spot for me.
In the end I didn’t buy it and bought another GT3 instead – a much safer place for your money and on a whole other level in terms of driver engagement, but as you have a young family I guess that the GT3 option is out…
If you can find one, I would take it in preference to the C2S all day long. Manual with the short shift is the sweet spot for me.
In the end I didn’t buy it and bought another GT3 instead – a much safer place for your money and on a whole other level in terms of driver engagement, but as you have a young family I guess that the GT3 option is out…
TheDeadPrussian said:
I had a long look at a GTS; it’s a great car and sufficiently ‘different’ from the C2S to make a real difference – it sounded considerably better for instance.
If you can find one, I would take it in preference to the C2S all day long. Manual with the short shift is the sweet spot for me.
In the end I didn’t buy it and bought another GT3 instead – a much safer place for your money and on a whole other level in terms of driver engagement, but as you have a young family I guess that the GT3 option is out…
Hopefully the following adds to the OP's original question.If you can find one, I would take it in preference to the C2S all day long. Manual with the short shift is the sweet spot for me.
In the end I didn’t buy it and bought another GT3 instead – a much safer place for your money and on a whole other level in terms of driver engagement, but as you have a young family I guess that the GT3 option is out…
Was that in comparison to sports exhaust too? Did you notice much difference in the way of driving experience (on the road that is, I didn't drive it on track)?
I ask because I'm looking again at upgrade path (991 now discounted, I want a manual) and GTS is getting a second look but think again, not different enough (mine has SSK and sports exhaust). Sacrilege I know but I just don't like the the GT3 spoiler, love how it drives though.
f1ashgordon said:
Hopefully the following adds to the OP's original question.
Was that in comparison to sports exhaust too? Did you notice much difference in the way of driving experience (on the road that is, I didn't drive it on track)?
I ask because I'm looking again at upgrade path (991 now discounted, I want a manual) and GTS is getting a second look but think again, not different enough (mine has SSK and sports exhaust). Sacrilege I know but I just don't like the the GT3 spoiler, love how it drives though.
Some things are slightly ambiguous and intangible – but the GTS just felt ‘better’. The 997.2 C2S is a great car, but the GTS just felt slightly better. The exhaust was the stand out feature above the standard sports exhaust – not quite Mezger good (in that bag of spanners in a washing machine way on start up and screaming through the revs), but much more raucous and angry than the standard sports exhaust I thought. Was that in comparison to sports exhaust too? Did you notice much difference in the way of driving experience (on the road that is, I didn't drive it on track)?
I ask because I'm looking again at upgrade path (991 now discounted, I want a manual) and GTS is getting a second look but think again, not different enough (mine has SSK and sports exhaust). Sacrilege I know but I just don't like the the GT3 spoiler, love how it drives though.
On the road there’s not that much in it, but the GTS just felt ‘tighter’ and more urgent. Difficult to quantify, but they do feel different. My advice would be to drive both as closely in relation to each other as possible – it may just be me and my own perception, but perhaps not.
TheDeadPrussian said:
In the end I didn’t buy it and bought another GT3 instead – a much safer place for your money and on a whole other level in terms of driver engagement, but as you have a young family I guess that the GT3 option is out…
I have installed rear seats and seat belts in my GT3. An easy modification.After driving both GTS and C2S, I went with the C2S at the time - the extra £25k for the GTS at the time wasn't worth it when this was my first Porsche. Were I buying now, when GTS prices have dropped, I'd very seriously consider the GTS - in fact, for a 'keeper' 997.2, it's probably ideal (GT3 notwithstanding). Having driven every combination of manual and PDK 991s and 997s, my personal choice would be a manual 997. If I were buying a 991, it would be a PDK - the whole car feels like it was designed with the PDK as an integral element and the 991 manual box, whilst not terrible, is not a patch on the 997 6-speed with SSK.
this is the one i like http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
seems to be well optioned
thaughts
seems to be well optioned
thaughts
I was in a similar position but ended up with the GTS. For the spec I wanted on a 997.2 S, I was looking at £50k from OPC. As others have said, the GTS just felt more focused, bit more exclusive and will hold better residuals than a S. There's some that speculate they will be sought after in a few years, not sure why as such, but overall I felt it to be a better drive and better investment. The black one in the link is lovely, I'd prefer to keep the Alcantara package myself though.
preA356 said:
this is the one i like http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
seems to be well optioned
thaughts
Ah, the fantastic GTS........much underrated IMO and much discussed.....seems to be well optioned
thaughts
:I have owned a good selection of 911s over the years, the last 2 years run a GTS PDK coupe 2wd and rate the GTS as up there with the best....not just my thoughts either, its had recommendations on the 'alternative to the 991 GT3 thread' also Attwood one of the highly esteemed Porsche Experience Centre official drivers said it was the best drivers 911 in his opinion....praise indeed!
Other posters and owners in the know have said the C2S to the GTS is like the GT3 3.8 RS is to the 4.0...
Anyone saying the GTS is a jumped up C2S is missing the point....
Main differences are different suspension set up, wider 4wd body, 408 bhp (23 bhp more than the C2S but crucially with a flatter torque curve), sports exhaust and black spyder centre lock wheels (£2200+ option on the 997 turbo s).
Having owned several 911 4 w d, I consider the steering is adversely affected and the GTS 4 is no different....the C2S and GTS 2 w d have a beautifully balanced feel and neutrality to the now defunct hydraulic steering and the electric steering in the 991 C2S Gt3 and Tts has come in for some criticism mainly due to its lack of feel.....
Downsides....not many...yes some people critisise the spyder centre locks but I think these look fantastic and are an essential part of the overall package and have had no problems with mine over 2 years. Personally I dislike the alcantara and think the placcy dash standard trim awful but each to their own.....
Without going down the speculated residual route again
the GTS will inevitably hold on to its value much better than the ubiquitous C2S, mainly due to there only being a handful of proper spec and mileage cars around at any one time.....values have remained fairly static.....I personally think the GTS will become increasingly desirable as one the last of the truly drivers focused properly steered 911s....Finally, the black car you highlighted with 17k miles (and a saggy drivers seat!) is very high spec, virtually identical to my Carrara white one (12k) but mine also has Cruise control, Auto dimming and rear wiper. Unfortunately, I will be selling shortly when the GT3 arrives......
.
av185 said:
Ah, the fantastic GTS........much underrated IMO and much discussed.....:
I have owned a good selection of 911s over the years, the last 2 years run a GTS PDK coupe 2wd and rate the GTS as up there with the best....not just my thoughts either, its had recommendations on the 'alternative to the 991 GT3 thread' also Attwood one of the highly esteemed Porsche Experience Centre official drivers said it was the best drivers 911 in his opinion....praise indeed!
Other posters and owners in the know have said the C2S to the GTS is like the GT3 3.8 RS is to the 4.0...
Anyone saying the GTS is a jumped up C2S is missing the point....
Main differences are different suspension set up, wider 4wd body, 408 bhp (23 bhp more than the C2S but crucially with a flatter torque curve), sports exhaust and black spyder centre lock wheels (£2200+ option on the 997 turbo s).
Having owned several 911 4 w d, I consider the steering is adversely affected and the GTS 4 is no different....the C2S and GTS 2 w d have a beautifully balanced feel and neutrality to the now defunct hydraulic steering and the electric steering in the 991 C2S Gt3 and Tts has come in for some criticism mainly due to its lack of feel.....
Downsides....not many...yes some people critisise the spyder centre locks but I think these look fantastic and are an essential part of the overall package and have had no problems with mine over 2 years. Personally I dislike the alcantara and think the placcy dash standard trim awful but each to their own.....
Without going down the speculated residual route again the GTS will inevitably hold on to its value much better than the ubiquitous C2S, mainly due to there only being a handful of proper spec and mileage cars around at any one time.....values have remained fairly static.....I personally think the GTS will become increasingly desirable as one the last of the truly drivers focused properly steered 911s....
Finally, the black car you highlighted with 17k miles (and a saggy drivers seat!) is very high spec, virtually identical to my Carrara white one (12k) but mine also has Cruise control, Auto dimming and rear wiper. Unfortunately, I will be selling shortly when the GT3 arrives.......
I would in fact reckon you will be getting some cash back when you pick up your GT3? :I have owned a good selection of 911s over the years, the last 2 years run a GTS PDK coupe 2wd and rate the GTS as up there with the best....not just my thoughts either, its had recommendations on the 'alternative to the 991 GT3 thread' also Attwood one of the highly esteemed Porsche Experience Centre official drivers said it was the best drivers 911 in his opinion....praise indeed!
Other posters and owners in the know have said the C2S to the GTS is like the GT3 3.8 RS is to the 4.0...
Anyone saying the GTS is a jumped up C2S is missing the point....
Main differences are different suspension set up, wider 4wd body, 408 bhp (23 bhp more than the C2S but crucially with a flatter torque curve), sports exhaust and black spyder centre lock wheels (£2200+ option on the 997 turbo s).
Having owned several 911 4 w d, I consider the steering is adversely affected and the GTS 4 is no different....the C2S and GTS 2 w d have a beautifully balanced feel and neutrality to the now defunct hydraulic steering and the electric steering in the 991 C2S Gt3 and Tts has come in for some criticism mainly due to its lack of feel.....
Downsides....not many...yes some people critisise the spyder centre locks but I think these look fantastic and are an essential part of the overall package and have had no problems with mine over 2 years. Personally I dislike the alcantara and think the placcy dash standard trim awful but each to their own.....
Without going down the speculated residual route again
the GTS will inevitably hold on to its value much better than the ubiquitous C2S, mainly due to there only being a handful of proper spec and mileage cars around at any one time.....values have remained fairly static.....I personally think the GTS will become increasingly desirable as one the last of the truly drivers focused properly steered 911s....Finally, the black car you highlighted with 17k miles (and a saggy drivers seat!) is very high spec, virtually identical to my Carrara white one (12k) but mine also has Cruise control, Auto dimming and rear wiper. Unfortunately, I will be selling shortly when the GT3 arrives......
.I have a GTS2 in manual with Short Shift and can highly recommend it. Not driven a 991 so can't give a truly useful comparison, however I have a friend with a 991S and familiarity with it has shown it has nothing that makes me want to change (though if I'd wanted PDK that might have made a difference). Even the interior of the new one is a little too Porsche Cayenne generic for my liking.
I like the Alcantara and personally would choose it, plus the leather dash because the standard plastic one does look rather cheap in what was an expensive car. Whilst mine has the centre locks it wouldn't be a deal breaker if it didn't have them - 5 studs are easier to live with in reality.
Not sure what it says about the car but for someone who changes cars rather too frequently (I think the record is 3 in 12 months) this one is a keeper. In all honesty (and maybe it's an age thing) I don't feel the need for a GT3.
I like the Alcantara and personally would choose it, plus the leather dash because the standard plastic one does look rather cheap in what was an expensive car. Whilst mine has the centre locks it wouldn't be a deal breaker if it didn't have them - 5 studs are easier to live with in reality.
Not sure what it says about the car but for someone who changes cars rather too frequently (I think the record is 3 in 12 months) this one is a keeper. In all honesty (and maybe it's an age thing) I don't feel the need for a GT3.
I considered a lot of different cars over the last few weeks, gave me a headache. Bottom line is I think the new 991 C2S looks better than the 997 in non spoiler form, lots of pluses and minuses re everything else.
I saw a nice 991C2S PDK, private one up around £65k in the classified, autotrader or on here I can't remember. In warranty too. 997Turbo gen2 I liked as well but kept being told to stay clear by my trackday mates.
I settled for a manual/weekend/occasion car in the end, something that will hold its money hopefully....997.1GT3.
I saw a nice 991C2S PDK, private one up around £65k in the classified, autotrader or on here I can't remember. In warranty too. 997Turbo gen2 I liked as well but kept being told to stay clear by my trackday mates.
I settled for a manual/weekend/occasion car in the end, something that will hold its money hopefully....997.1GT3.
f1ashgordon said:
Hopefully the following adds to the OP's original question.
Was that in comparison to sports exhaust too? Did you notice much difference in the way of driving experience (on the road that is, I didn't drive it on track)?
I ask because I'm looking again at upgrade path (991 now discounted, I want a manual) and GTS is getting a second look but think again, not different enough (mine has SSK and sports exhaust). Sacrilege I know but I just don't like the the GT3 spoiler, love how it drives though.
would it not be an option to get the normal decklid instead of the gt3 one and revert back at sale? i assume at the speeds you are allowed to do in the uk it would not upset the balance all that much (just a guess). assuming you are never able to sell your spare decklid, you would probably still be money good given the gt3 depreciation vs a normal c2s or gtsWas that in comparison to sports exhaust too? Did you notice much difference in the way of driving experience (on the road that is, I didn't drive it on track)?
I ask because I'm looking again at upgrade path (991 now discounted, I want a manual) and GTS is getting a second look but think again, not different enough (mine has SSK and sports exhaust). Sacrilege I know but I just don't like the the GT3 spoiler, love how it drives though.
MDahmen said:
would it not be an option to get the normal decklid instead of the gt3 one and revert back at sale? i assume at the speeds you are allowed to do in the uk it would not upset the balance all that much (just a guess). assuming you are never able to sell your spare decklid, you would probably still be money good given the gt3 depreciation vs a normal c2s or gts
A gentleman did it on here( http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )
but didn't report back.
Came in for lots of criticism, perhaps more because of his motivation. Personally just don't like the rear wing. On the road there'd be b***er all difference. Think of it as more of a GTS but with Mezger engine. Or gt3 without the rear wing!
Nice interior av185.
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