991 GT3 vs 997.1 GT3 on track
Discussion
I did a track day recently on the Silverstone GP circuit and had my first encounter with a 991 GT3 on track. Now before the trolls jump in and accuse me of discovering the limits of my driving talent I'd just like to say I have a cupboard full of trophies from racing including one from BTCC - therefore I have reasonable driving talent.
On previous track days I have found little performance difference on track between my 997.1 and 997.2 GT3s or GT3 RS. A well driven gen 2 GT3 RS on michelins will slowly pull away from my pzero corsa clad 997.1, but not by much and my non-RS GT3 is quick down the straights without the drag from the rear wing of the RS.
On the recent day at Silverstone, towards the end when the track was finally quiet, a 991 GT3 came past me and so I decided to try and hang on to it. I was really surprised at how quickly he pulled away on the straights and at Stowe corner the car was able to carry significantly more corner speed as my 997 slid around as I was clearly asking it to do more than it was capable of. Following the 991 in to Copse it looked really stable braking later than I could and clearly had better traction on the exit, and then really pulled away on the straight with better acceleration. After a lap it had pulled a reasonable gap and continued to pull away. I realise it has 65hp more that the 997.1, but there was a noticable difference to encounters I have had with 997.2 GT3 RSs.
It looked very impressive and that was the first time I have been tempted to change my 997. Anyone on here driven a 991 GT3 on track and able to comment on whether the fun factor is also there with the additional pace?
On previous track days I have found little performance difference on track between my 997.1 and 997.2 GT3s or GT3 RS. A well driven gen 2 GT3 RS on michelins will slowly pull away from my pzero corsa clad 997.1, but not by much and my non-RS GT3 is quick down the straights without the drag from the rear wing of the RS.
On the recent day at Silverstone, towards the end when the track was finally quiet, a 991 GT3 came past me and so I decided to try and hang on to it. I was really surprised at how quickly he pulled away on the straights and at Stowe corner the car was able to carry significantly more corner speed as my 997 slid around as I was clearly asking it to do more than it was capable of. Following the 991 in to Copse it looked really stable braking later than I could and clearly had better traction on the exit, and then really pulled away on the straight with better acceleration. After a lap it had pulled a reasonable gap and continued to pull away. I realise it has 65hp more that the 997.1, but there was a noticable difference to encounters I have had with 997.2 GT3 RSs.
It looked very impressive and that was the first time I have been tempted to change my 997. Anyone on here driven a 991 GT3 on track and able to comment on whether the fun factor is also there with the additional pace?
Callughan said:
Ive seen a 991 C4S be much quicker than 997.1 GT3 on track. Technology and all that
That is issue when a normal 991 laps faster than the top of the last gen GT3'sA 911 turbo with cups would kill all GT3's round a larger track these days I bet, but the cars never get tested with cups other wise it would make other stuff look too slow.
Cups 2's are making the laps times these days, every new record car has them.
991 GT3 was a cheap car for the lap time esp with cash back for most, still does nothing for me though, and I'll take a 458 special every day of the week.
mrdemon said:
Callughan said:
Ive seen a 991 C4S be much quicker than 997.1 GT3 on track. Technology and all that
That is issue when a normal 991 laps faster than the top of the last gen GT3'sA 911 turbo with cups would kill all GT3's round a larger track these days I bet, but the cars never get tested with cups other wise it would make other stuff look too slow.
Cups 2's are making the laps times these days, every new record car has them.
991 GT3 was a cheap car for the lap time esp with cash back for most, still does nothing for me though, and I'll take a 458 special every day of the week.
997.1 GT3 is so pretty though :-)
One of my friends was in his 458 Speciale at the same TD, this was his first day in the car and he was still getting to grips with it - but my 9971.1 GT3 was quicker over a lap, now that is down to driver experience, but on the straights it didn't pull away any quicker than the 991 GT3. I dont want this to turn into a 458 vs 991 GT3 thread, the point of the thread was the jump in performance I noted compared to the delta between previous GT3 and GT3 RS models.
Agree the tyres probably are a part of the improvement, along with all the other tech other's have mentioned already.
Agree the tyres probably are a part of the improvement, along with all the other tech other's have mentioned already.
Interesting observations (and thread) OP
I have no doubt the 991 GT3 is faster over a given lap than a 997.1 GT3. If you are chasing lap times and want to be the quickest then the 991 GT3 is the one to have.
If, however, you enjoy the challenge of extracting as much speed from a car as you can and want to learn and improve as a driver then stick with the 997 - (though with a BTCC trophy in your cabinet I am not sure there is much left for you to learn!)
For road driving, its a completely different kettle of fish!
I have no doubt the 991 GT3 is faster over a given lap than a 997.1 GT3. If you are chasing lap times and want to be the quickest then the 991 GT3 is the one to have.
If, however, you enjoy the challenge of extracting as much speed from a car as you can and want to learn and improve as a driver then stick with the 997 - (though with a BTCC trophy in your cabinet I am not sure there is much left for you to learn!)
For road driving, its a completely different kettle of fish!
braddo said:
Is your car standard or does it have a tweaked setup (geo/dampers/brakes/diff etc)?
Its lightly modified with RS29s all round, Alcons on the front and GT2 cooling ducts on the rear. It has a track day geo by JZM. I suppose the corsas stick out as a bit of a compromise, but I drive the car to the track and at places like Spa it is often wet and the Corsas do a reasonable job wet or dry on track and are pretty reasonable on the road. The car is non-club sport spec with Sunroof (lets in the noise on track :-) and seat belts in the back for the kids!It is a very enjoyable car to extract a good lap from on track, passengers are amazed at the braking performance and cornering grip (have seen 1.2g on the vbox). It could use more power - having driven a 4.0 RS that felt perfect with the extra 90 neddies. My mates 996GT3RS is similar in pace to my 997.1 GT3 which is in turn is not substantially slower than a 997.2GT3 RS - definitely a case of evolution.
However, 991 GT3 turn-in looked incredible on track. Through longer corners (Copse, Stowe) it looked really planted and quick. Very impressive leap forward compared to previous increments. Anyone driven one on track yet?
braddo said:
Interesting, thanks.
So far I just have the rear seatbelts.
Some Alcons and tyres are likely next year however.
For track days the Alcon /RS29 combination is fantastic, great braking power, they are lasting really well and I have not experienced any fade - although I do limit my runs as the tyres generally do start to overheat.So far I just have the rear seatbelts.
Some Alcons and tyres are likely next year however.F40GT346 said:
I did a track day recently on the Silverstone GP circuit and had my first encounter with a 991 GT3 on track. Now before the trolls jump in and accuse me of discovering the limits of my driving talent I'd just like to say I have a cupboard full of trophies from racing including one from BTCC - therefore I have reasonable driving talent.
On previous track days I have found little performance difference on track between my 997.1 and 997.2 GT3s or GT3 RS. A well driven gen 2 GT3 RS on michelins will slowly pull away from my pzero corsa clad 997.1, but not by much and my non-RS GT3 is quick down the straights without the drag from the rear wing of the RS.
On the recent day at Silverstone, towards the end when the track was finally quiet, a 991 GT3 came past me and so I decided to try and hang on to it. I was really surprised at how quickly he pulled away on the straights and at Stowe corner the car was able to carry significantly more corner speed as my 997 slid around as I was clearly asking it to do more than it was capable of. Following the 991 in to Copse it looked really stable braking later than I could and clearly had better traction on the exit, and then really pulled away on the straight with better acceleration. After a lap it had pulled a reasonable gap and continued to pull away. I realise it has 65hp more that the 997.1, but there was a noticable difference to encounters I have had with 997.2 GT3 RSs.
It looked very impressive and that was the first time I have been tempted to change my 997. Anyone on here driven a 991 GT3 on track and able to comment on whether the fun factor is also there with the additional pace?
Who was having the most fun ?On previous track days I have found little performance difference on track between my 997.1 and 997.2 GT3s or GT3 RS. A well driven gen 2 GT3 RS on michelins will slowly pull away from my pzero corsa clad 997.1, but not by much and my non-RS GT3 is quick down the straights without the drag from the rear wing of the RS.
On the recent day at Silverstone, towards the end when the track was finally quiet, a 991 GT3 came past me and so I decided to try and hang on to it. I was really surprised at how quickly he pulled away on the straights and at Stowe corner the car was able to carry significantly more corner speed as my 997 slid around as I was clearly asking it to do more than it was capable of. Following the 991 in to Copse it looked really stable braking later than I could and clearly had better traction on the exit, and then really pulled away on the straight with better acceleration. After a lap it had pulled a reasonable gap and continued to pull away. I realise it has 65hp more that the 997.1, but there was a noticable difference to encounters I have had with 997.2 GT3 RSs.
It looked very impressive and that was the first time I have been tempted to change my 997. Anyone on here driven a 991 GT3 on track and able to comment on whether the fun factor is also there with the additional pace?
Everything else is irrelevant.
ChrisW. said:
Was that a rhetorical question or are you into reading minds ??
Who can say ?
I'm assuming he means that although the 991 was quicker was the driver having as much fun as the 997 driver. It's a good question as well, as driving the 991 with it's automatic gearbox wouldn't appeal to everyone.Who can say ?
ChrisW. said:
Was that a rhetorical question or are you into reading minds ??
Who can say ?
I'm assuming he means that although the 991 was quicker was the driver having as much fun as the 997 driver. It's a good question as well, as driving the 991 with it's automatic gearbox wouldn't appeal to everyone.Who can say ?
On a normal track like Donny how many times do you change up gears ?
Each one at best saving you a 2/10th second
5 times? ESP with a manual GT3.
Cups two are worth more than that a lap over street tyres :-)
You change gear less than you think on track.
Each one at best saving you a 2/10th second
5 times? ESP with a manual GT3.
Cups two are worth more than that a lap over street tyres :-)
You change gear less than you think on track.
Edited by mrdemon on Monday 6th October 20:53
mrdemon said:
On a normal track like Donny how many times do you change up gears ?
Each one at best saving you a 2/10th second
5 times? ESP with a manual GT3.
Cups two are worth more than that a lap over street tyres :-)
You change gear less than you think on track.
At Silverstone, about 20 times if I don't block shift when I need to go down 2 gears...Each one at best saving you a 2/10th second
5 times? ESP with a manual GT3.
Cups two are worth more than that a lap over street tyres :-)
You change gear less than you think on track.
Edited by mrdemon on Monday 6th October 20:53
So not insignificant (but I still prefer shifting manually :-)
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