New 996 C4S Owner - IMS/Clutch Replacement Question
Discussion
Hi all
I've just picked up a very nice 996 C4S Coupe Manual in Seal Grey...chuffed to bits with it so far. I've gone into it eyes wide open with regard IMS issues and am planning to upgrade the IMS (and clutch at the same time), however I have a hesitation...
The car has come with a complete and up to date service book and document pack but only the odd receipt here and there from the previous couple of owners. There is no documentary evidence to suggest the clutch has been replaced, however it must have been, right? The car is on 76k and from what I've read the clutch should only be good for 40k.
I've called all the previous garages that appear in the service book and those I could get hold of (bar one) have confirmed the service history but that they hadn't replaced the clutch or IMS. The one garage I can't get hold of (Porsche Service Centre, Essex) no longer appears to be trading and shows two services at 43k and 49k - around the time I'd imagine the clutch would be replaced. I spoke to two of the recent previous owners and neither said they changed the clutch (or IMS).
My hesitation in diving straight in and replacing the clutch (which currently seems fine) and the IMS at great cost is that it may have already been done. I'd hate to spend £1.5k only for the mechanic to say it already had the latest IMS and didn't need doing!! So my big question is, is there any way, visually (without paperwork), to identify whether a 911 has had the IMS replaced? Pretty sure it'll be a resounding 'NO' but thought I'd ask!!
Thanks
Mike
I've just picked up a very nice 996 C4S Coupe Manual in Seal Grey...chuffed to bits with it so far. I've gone into it eyes wide open with regard IMS issues and am planning to upgrade the IMS (and clutch at the same time), however I have a hesitation...
The car has come with a complete and up to date service book and document pack but only the odd receipt here and there from the previous couple of owners. There is no documentary evidence to suggest the clutch has been replaced, however it must have been, right? The car is on 76k and from what I've read the clutch should only be good for 40k.
I've called all the previous garages that appear in the service book and those I could get hold of (bar one) have confirmed the service history but that they hadn't replaced the clutch or IMS. The one garage I can't get hold of (Porsche Service Centre, Essex) no longer appears to be trading and shows two services at 43k and 49k - around the time I'd imagine the clutch would be replaced. I spoke to two of the recent previous owners and neither said they changed the clutch (or IMS).
My hesitation in diving straight in and replacing the clutch (which currently seems fine) and the IMS at great cost is that it may have already been done. I'd hate to spend £1.5k only for the mechanic to say it already had the latest IMS and didn't need doing!! So my big question is, is there any way, visually (without paperwork), to identify whether a 911 has had the IMS replaced? Pretty sure it'll be a resounding 'NO' but thought I'd ask!!
Thanks
Mike
echoblue said:
Hi all
I've just picked up a very nice 996 C4S Coupe Manual in Seal Grey...chuffed to bits with it so far. I've gone into it eyes wide open with regard IMS issues and am planning to upgrade the IMS (and clutch at the same time), however I have a hesitation...
The car has come with a complete and up to date service book and document pack but only the odd receipt here and there from the previous couple of owners. There is no documentary evidence to suggest the clutch has been replaced, however it must have been, right? The car is on 76k and from what I've read the clutch should only be good for 40k.
I've called all the previous garages that appear in the service book and those I could get hold of (bar one) have confirmed the service history but that they hadn't replaced the clutch or IMS. The one garage I can't get hold of (Porsche Service Centre, Essex) no longer appears to be trading and shows two services at 43k and 49k - around the time I'd imagine the clutch would be replaced. I spoke to two of the recent previous owners and neither said they changed the clutch (or IMS).
My hesitation in diving straight in and replacing the clutch (which currently seems fine) and the IMS at great cost is that it may have already been done. I'd hate to spend £1.5k only for the mechanic to say it already had the latest IMS and didn't need doing!! So my big question is, is there any way, visually (without paperwork), to identify whether a 911 has had the IMS replaced? Pretty sure it'll be a resounding 'NO' but thought I'd ask!!
Thanks
Mike
Mike,I've just picked up a very nice 996 C4S Coupe Manual in Seal Grey...chuffed to bits with it so far. I've gone into it eyes wide open with regard IMS issues and am planning to upgrade the IMS (and clutch at the same time), however I have a hesitation...
The car has come with a complete and up to date service book and document pack but only the odd receipt here and there from the previous couple of owners. There is no documentary evidence to suggest the clutch has been replaced, however it must have been, right? The car is on 76k and from what I've read the clutch should only be good for 40k.
I've called all the previous garages that appear in the service book and those I could get hold of (bar one) have confirmed the service history but that they hadn't replaced the clutch or IMS. The one garage I can't get hold of (Porsche Service Centre, Essex) no longer appears to be trading and shows two services at 43k and 49k - around the time I'd imagine the clutch would be replaced. I spoke to two of the recent previous owners and neither said they changed the clutch (or IMS).
My hesitation in diving straight in and replacing the clutch (which currently seems fine) and the IMS at great cost is that it may have already been done. I'd hate to spend £1.5k only for the mechanic to say it already had the latest IMS and didn't need doing!! So my big question is, is there any way, visually (without paperwork), to identify whether a 911 has had the IMS replaced? Pretty sure it'll be a resounding 'NO' but thought I'd ask!!
Thanks
Mike
I had the very same car which I sold to a mechanic at Bob Houghton Ferrari, it might even be my old one! It all depends on how the car has been driven and if mechanical sympathy was used. Although its likely it has been changed, 76k is very possible if its been looked after so I just wouldn't worry about it. If all seems fine use it and change it if it starts to slip.
Re the IMS, very few cars failed in reality. You only ever hear the horror stories here! If you ve spoken to the pervious 2 owners, then its highly likely that it hasn't been changed. I went through the same thought process with mine, you take a gamble but in reality you have a less than 10% chance of it going wrong.
The more likely issue will be bore scoring so look for very black sooted up exhausts. My advice would be to change the thermostat for a low temp one which will make the engine run cooler and avoid bore scoring. Should cost you less than £100 and is well worth doing.
Personally I wouldn't change the IMS, just keep the oil at max mark level all the time to help lubricate the IMS bearing.
Edited by Fokker on Wednesday 7th September 14:30
Don't bother with an IMS "upgrade".
Read this excellent thread; perfect if you intend to do the clutch.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
Read this excellent thread; perfect if you intend to do the clutch.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
I was in same boat a few weeks ago with my C4 3.6 just under 74k miles.. Clutch wasn't slipping but I took it to a trusted Porsche specialist to get an appraisal of the transmission etc.
After a test drive, the clutch was found to be a bit leggy and the DMF was causing a very slight judder while taking off in 1st.. The replacement of which was left at my discretion and I could have opted for an interim service / fluid change.
However I asked the guys to go through the car from front to back and replace anything that needed attention. Some suspension components at front and the oily bits received: RMS, LN IMS bearing upgrade, IMS seal and tensioner seals £700 + vat, New Clutch and flywheel £990 + vat.. top work, great value and the engine is future proofed..it was a no brainer.
Car was good before but now it's a superb drive. The clutch is noticeably lighter and the gear change slicker.
Take it to a good independent porsche garage and get them to assess the car during a test drive. They should be able to tell you a lot about the state of the clutch from pedal feel. As others have stated, I wouldn't have the gearbox out soley to replace the IMS until the clutch needed doing also..
After a test drive, the clutch was found to be a bit leggy and the DMF was causing a very slight judder while taking off in 1st.. The replacement of which was left at my discretion and I could have opted for an interim service / fluid change.
However I asked the guys to go through the car from front to back and replace anything that needed attention. Some suspension components at front and the oily bits received: RMS, LN IMS bearing upgrade, IMS seal and tensioner seals £700 + vat, New Clutch and flywheel £990 + vat.. top work, great value and the engine is future proofed..it was a no brainer.
Car was good before but now it's a superb drive. The clutch is noticeably lighter and the gear change slicker.
Take it to a good independent porsche garage and get them to assess the car during a test drive. They should be able to tell you a lot about the state of the clutch from pedal feel. As others have stated, I wouldn't have the gearbox out soley to replace the IMS until the clutch needed doing also..
Thanks for all of the replies...got the car going into the local specialist tomorrow for a once-over and front suspension overhaul. Cartainly seems worth holding off doing anything with the clutch and IMS until the clutch actually needs doing, and will discuss the condition of the clutch with the garage tomorrow.
Bobby, all that work sounds incredibly cheap...where did you get it done? I'm assuming this isn't the usual going-rate for an indy?
Bobby, all that work sounds incredibly cheap...where did you get it done? I'm assuming this isn't the usual going-rate for an indy?
OK just picked he up from the garage after the front suspension work, tracking and a full inspection. Really pleased as on the whole it seems like a good one and is certainly in-line with my expectations when I bought it. Apparently the bolts around the IMS housing are the 'new type' so highly likely the IMS has been done (though not conclusive).
On the to-do list over the next few weeks:
- Clutch. I knew it was a bit stiff and according to the (trusted) garage it could do with being done. I figure I may as well get it done sooner rather than later so that I get the most out of it (on past experience its unlikely I'll keep the car beyond the life of the new clutch so no point delaying). When they're doing it they'll investigate whether the IMS has indeed been done.
- RMS Seal to be replaced - slight leak
- 2 x front condensers (no air con at the mo). Only one needs doing but worth doing them both at the same time.
Looking like £1,400 all-in so not as bad as I had imagined
On the to-do list over the next few weeks:
- Clutch. I knew it was a bit stiff and according to the (trusted) garage it could do with being done. I figure I may as well get it done sooner rather than later so that I get the most out of it (on past experience its unlikely I'll keep the car beyond the life of the new clutch so no point delaying). When they're doing it they'll investigate whether the IMS has indeed been done.
- RMS Seal to be replaced - slight leak
- 2 x front condensers (no air con at the mo). Only one needs doing but worth doing them both at the same time.
Looking like £1,400 all-in so not as bad as I had imagined
Good move.. tidy C4s's are making strong money and the investment you've put in will reward you in the driving experience and value of the car long term.. buying them is one thing, keeping them in top mechanical condition requires a bit of investment but with a good independent, it doesn't have to cost the earth..
Mine is George McMillan Porsche.. 30 + years with the marque.. I wouldn't go near an OPC. I like my cars done right.
Mine is George McMillan Porsche.. 30 + years with the marque.. I wouldn't go near an OPC. I like my cars done right.
I had the clutch and IMS done on mine at Brookspeed Southapton back in January, £1,500.
My clutch actually went which is what prompted the work, mileage was just over 60k and it was the original clutch so yours could be too!
The usual IMS scare stories are what prompted me to get it changed at the sme time, why wouldn't you but from what I've heard at this sort of mileage if it hasn't gone it is unlikely too,
My clutch actually went which is what prompted the work, mileage was just over 60k and it was the original clutch so yours could be too!
The usual IMS scare stories are what prompted me to get it changed at the sme time, why wouldn't you but from what I've heard at this sort of mileage if it hasn't gone it is unlikely too,
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