997 3.8 for sale with duff engine - good opportunity?
Discussion
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
if that could be picked up for maybe just under £16k and the engine was taken out and sent off to Hartech, would it make sense? it looks like 'the works' comes out at circa £7.6k inc VAT for a full strip, all new cylinders (might as well replace them all) and new IMS and spindle.
total cost would then be circa £23.5k for a 64.5k 2005 3.8 carrera s with the cachet of having just had a full Hartech rebuild.
a similar car running around with an original engine would be circa £21k i guess.
thoughts?
if that could be picked up for maybe just under £16k and the engine was taken out and sent off to Hartech, would it make sense? it looks like 'the works' comes out at circa £7.6k inc VAT for a full strip, all new cylinders (might as well replace them all) and new IMS and spindle.
total cost would then be circa £23.5k for a 64.5k 2005 3.8 carrera s with the cachet of having just had a full Hartech rebuild.
a similar car running around with an original engine would be circa £21k i guess.
thoughts?
hondansx said:
Maybe if it was a manual it would be interesting. There certainly looks to be profit to had if you want to make a few quid though. Just don't forget to account for the hassle in getting all done that - time has a value.
damn... just spotted it has a tiptronic... even though the title says manual.Edited by hondansx on Wednesday 9th November 16:11
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Base engine rebuild - £2.2k (engine out) - £3.5k (engine in car)6x new cylinders - £2.5k
New intermediate shaft - £750
New shaft bearing with stronger spindle - £150
inc VAT this works out at between £6,720 and £8,280 depending on whether the car or just the engine is sent up (i guess it is better to send the car up to be sure it all goes back together properly).
numbers taken from Hartech website
cheers for the reply.... i was just curious... i am seriously thinking of pulling the trigger on a 997 in the new year (am kicking myself for not buying the stunning white with saddle brown leather 997 at strasse a couple of months ago), but i can do without the stress and worry of grenading the engine.
i know that this only affects a small percentage of cars, but often it is the worry that takes the edge off ownership. i sold my boxster s a while ago and thanked my lucky stars that nothing blew up in my ownership.
you may wonder why i am therefore thinking of a porsche (in addition to wondering why i can't be bothered to use capital letters). i want a compact and classy 2+2 for use as a daily driver... compact, as i park on the street... 2+2 as i have a 4yr old... classy as i will use it in my business (currently using a cls 500 merc as a daily). the bmw 6-series isn't special enough. maseratis are a little fragile. the jag xk is too small in the back, and so on...
i know that this only affects a small percentage of cars, but often it is the worry that takes the edge off ownership. i sold my boxster s a while ago and thanked my lucky stars that nothing blew up in my ownership.
you may wonder why i am therefore thinking of a porsche (in addition to wondering why i can't be bothered to use capital letters). i want a compact and classy 2+2 for use as a daily driver... compact, as i park on the street... 2+2 as i have a 4yr old... classy as i will use it in my business (currently using a cls 500 merc as a daily). the bmw 6-series isn't special enough. maseratis are a little fragile. the jag xk is too small in the back, and so on...
It's tempting, as my fav. colour! 
It depends on how long you going to keep the car? If it's a quite long term car, and you are happy about triptonics, a reliable engine rebuild/upgrade somewhere like hartech would be a good one I guess. (considering that the rest of the car is completely neat, nothing on the body work and etc...)
On a different note, another beautiful 3.8 Carrera S, engine required before even 50k! Porsche should have recalled these models and fixed them but instead they refused to admit a problem exists or that they were liable/responsible.
It depends on how long you going to keep the car? If it's a quite long term car, and you are happy about triptonics, a reliable engine rebuild/upgrade somewhere like hartech would be a good one I guess. (considering that the rest of the car is completely neat, nothing on the body work and etc...)
On a different note, another beautiful 3.8 Carrera S, engine required before even 50k! Porsche should have recalled these models and fixed them but instead they refused to admit a problem exists or that they were liable/responsible.
Edited by ooid on Wednesday 9th November 21:22
As is often the case - not everything is as it can be presented by others in a post.
Firstly there is no such thing as a "standard rebuild". Secondly included within the £3,500 mentioned are gaskets, seals, coolant, oil filter, crankshaft oil jets etc - all included within the fixed rebuild part of the price (because we know that whatever else the customer wants - they will all have to have all those anyway) and this fact alone places some doubt upon the authenticity of some posts and the reasons behind them. For example we do offer a discounted fixed price for say a 2006-2008 3.8S for, 6 cylinders, re-coated pistons, new rings, crankshaft shells, chains, guide rails, oil/air separator, basic head overhauls, IMS bearing, plugs and of course all oil, coolant and filters of £7,500 + Vat (many customers not eligible for Vat or recover it from their business) - and I think that is fantastic value for money and in complete contrast to the impression given in some other posts.
We always make every effort to discuss what the owner wants from their car in the future and can be quite blunt and to the point to make sure they are authorising what they want.
If they want to keep the car for a long time and can afford a top rebuild then they may well have many of the things replaced that were listed above (and I think it would be worthwhile) - but the car may very well have recently had a new coolant pump and if the engine has covered relatively low mileage - it may well not need re-coated piston, chains or guide rails etc. Many of those parts are not completely worn out but are relatively inexpensive and so someone hoping to exploit the longevity of the basic Hartech cylinders (etc) may well prefer to replace those as well - their choice!
Crankshaft bearings are another classic example. They are relatively narrow (low surface area) in these engines (much less than many earlier Porsche engines with long life reputations) and the oil pump is a cheap design that provides adequate oil delivery at mid to high revs but which falls off a lot at low revs - so shell bearings are often quite worn when we strip the engine. This doesn't mean they "have to be replaced" but once again - if the owner wants a keeper - the cost is relatively low compared to the overall price and many prefer to replace them.
In some cases they already show wear through the white metal and therefore would have failed anyway in the near future - costing a replacement crankshaft as well! I think it is a little misleading to imply that these are part of a "standard rebuild" - they are optional but yes - most people sensibly request them.
Our charges therefore are often less than £7,500 if the customer chooses a lower spec rebuild or existing parts are in better than usual condition. Although we would never rebuild and engine with such a poor life expectancy that we would expect it to fail soon afterwards - most of the low cost parts we often include are more of a safeguard than anything else as no one knows exactly how long the original part worn parts may have lasted and many (rightly in my opinion) prefer not to take the risk.
Furthermore we do sometimes encounter seized bolts that need drilling out and helicoiling, corroded exhaust parts, an almost completely worn out clutch (and/or dual mass flywheel), worn engine mounts and split coolant tank (etc) that would have needed replacement soon enough anyway and are infinitely cheaper to deal with during the rebuild - and most of these issues would have been just as relevant if replacing with a new engine (incorporating all the existing well known weaknesses that caused or contributed to the need for the rebuild in the first place) at roughly twice that price (and also with Vat).
It is true that there have been occasions where the owner has many of these faults and wants the best job possible done (and can afford it) for a "keeper" and may well load his costs up to around £10K plus £2K Vat - but always at their choice and after detailed and frank discussions about the overall situation - and remember they still end up in pocket (compared to a New replacement engine) and with a superior product specification.
I agree it is reasonable to point out to someone weighing up what the likely costs might be that typical prices may vary between say £7,500 and say £10K + Vat) but I think that is only a fair assessment if the other reasons for the differences are outlined as I have above.
Not only do we provide a superb rebuild list of options but also have researched and developed low cost products to reduce the likelihood of an owner needing a rebuild (or extending the existing life of their engine) and we are now road testing more new products to increase the choices for customers and try and make the Hartech rebuild even more attractive.
There are of course some owners who simply cannot afford a top rebuild and anyway who are in such financial difficulties because the car they bought expecting superb reliability has let them down - for them - unexpectedly - that they are stuck unable to justify a top level rebuild. Even for them we can put together a good specification of a rebuild. They may not have all the parts replaced that others choose - but then - no one knows how long they would have lasted anyway and in many cases many tens of thousands of miles would still be possible at less than £7,500 + Vat and for those in serious difficulty we even will consider a fair price purchase of the car so we can help them move on and after our own top level rebuild - put their old car back on the market in superb condition to further Porsche's reputation for many years ahead.
There are others offering rebuilds - many more expensive and none to an equivalent specification - many inferior.
For garage businesses (or competent home mechanics) we are prepared to just fix the crankcase problem with new cylinders, rebuild the bottom end, or include the top end as well - to put together the complete engine repair service with the highest quality at fair and reasonable prices for any part of the market (including overseas).
Baz
Firstly there is no such thing as a "standard rebuild". Secondly included within the £3,500 mentioned are gaskets, seals, coolant, oil filter, crankshaft oil jets etc - all included within the fixed rebuild part of the price (because we know that whatever else the customer wants - they will all have to have all those anyway) and this fact alone places some doubt upon the authenticity of some posts and the reasons behind them. For example we do offer a discounted fixed price for say a 2006-2008 3.8S for, 6 cylinders, re-coated pistons, new rings, crankshaft shells, chains, guide rails, oil/air separator, basic head overhauls, IMS bearing, plugs and of course all oil, coolant and filters of £7,500 + Vat (many customers not eligible for Vat or recover it from their business) - and I think that is fantastic value for money and in complete contrast to the impression given in some other posts.
We always make every effort to discuss what the owner wants from their car in the future and can be quite blunt and to the point to make sure they are authorising what they want.
If they want to keep the car for a long time and can afford a top rebuild then they may well have many of the things replaced that were listed above (and I think it would be worthwhile) - but the car may very well have recently had a new coolant pump and if the engine has covered relatively low mileage - it may well not need re-coated piston, chains or guide rails etc. Many of those parts are not completely worn out but are relatively inexpensive and so someone hoping to exploit the longevity of the basic Hartech cylinders (etc) may well prefer to replace those as well - their choice!
Crankshaft bearings are another classic example. They are relatively narrow (low surface area) in these engines (much less than many earlier Porsche engines with long life reputations) and the oil pump is a cheap design that provides adequate oil delivery at mid to high revs but which falls off a lot at low revs - so shell bearings are often quite worn when we strip the engine. This doesn't mean they "have to be replaced" but once again - if the owner wants a keeper - the cost is relatively low compared to the overall price and many prefer to replace them.
In some cases they already show wear through the white metal and therefore would have failed anyway in the near future - costing a replacement crankshaft as well! I think it is a little misleading to imply that these are part of a "standard rebuild" - they are optional but yes - most people sensibly request them.
Our charges therefore are often less than £7,500 if the customer chooses a lower spec rebuild or existing parts are in better than usual condition. Although we would never rebuild and engine with such a poor life expectancy that we would expect it to fail soon afterwards - most of the low cost parts we often include are more of a safeguard than anything else as no one knows exactly how long the original part worn parts may have lasted and many (rightly in my opinion) prefer not to take the risk.
Furthermore we do sometimes encounter seized bolts that need drilling out and helicoiling, corroded exhaust parts, an almost completely worn out clutch (and/or dual mass flywheel), worn engine mounts and split coolant tank (etc) that would have needed replacement soon enough anyway and are infinitely cheaper to deal with during the rebuild - and most of these issues would have been just as relevant if replacing with a new engine (incorporating all the existing well known weaknesses that caused or contributed to the need for the rebuild in the first place) at roughly twice that price (and also with Vat).
It is true that there have been occasions where the owner has many of these faults and wants the best job possible done (and can afford it) for a "keeper" and may well load his costs up to around £10K plus £2K Vat - but always at their choice and after detailed and frank discussions about the overall situation - and remember they still end up in pocket (compared to a New replacement engine) and with a superior product specification.
I agree it is reasonable to point out to someone weighing up what the likely costs might be that typical prices may vary between say £7,500 and say £10K + Vat) but I think that is only a fair assessment if the other reasons for the differences are outlined as I have above.
Not only do we provide a superb rebuild list of options but also have researched and developed low cost products to reduce the likelihood of an owner needing a rebuild (or extending the existing life of their engine) and we are now road testing more new products to increase the choices for customers and try and make the Hartech rebuild even more attractive.
There are of course some owners who simply cannot afford a top rebuild and anyway who are in such financial difficulties because the car they bought expecting superb reliability has let them down - for them - unexpectedly - that they are stuck unable to justify a top level rebuild. Even for them we can put together a good specification of a rebuild. They may not have all the parts replaced that others choose - but then - no one knows how long they would have lasted anyway and in many cases many tens of thousands of miles would still be possible at less than £7,500 + Vat and for those in serious difficulty we even will consider a fair price purchase of the car so we can help them move on and after our own top level rebuild - put their old car back on the market in superb condition to further Porsche's reputation for many years ahead.
There are others offering rebuilds - many more expensive and none to an equivalent specification - many inferior.
For garage businesses (or competent home mechanics) we are prepared to just fix the crankcase problem with new cylinders, rebuild the bottom end, or include the top end as well - to put together the complete engine repair service with the highest quality at fair and reasonable prices for any part of the market (including overseas).
Baz
Edited by hartech on Thursday 10th November 16:13
J1mmy90 said:
It’s on for 13, is that too much? How much is the fix likely to be?
Offer £8K and meet at £10KForget a rebuild, go to Porsche and order a new engine at £16K fitted.
Then its £26K all in which is about what they go for with 100K miles on them, whereas you'd have one starting afresh again.
Misread your post - so the thread subject matter is a duff engine whereas your potential purchase doesn't, yet has high milage. but you are concerned on what it might cost yep?
Here are the costs
https://www.hartech.org/rebuild-prices
Here are the costs
https://www.hartech.org/rebuild-prices
Don't get a new Porsche engine, that's just silly as it'll have all the potential problems of the original. Get a proper rebuild, with cylinder liners made from a sensible material, better IMS, and the closed deck-mod as well.
Most importantly, remember that a 2005, 115K car will likely have a whole host of other issues that will need to be assessed and maybe dealt with. Pipes, hoses, suspension components will all be worn to some degree, and if the engine's coming out then there are plenty of extras that you would be mad not to do at the same time.
This car's not likely to only cost you purchase price plus engine rebuild IMO.
Most importantly, remember that a 2005, 115K car will likely have a whole host of other issues that will need to be assessed and maybe dealt with. Pipes, hoses, suspension components will all be worn to some degree, and if the engine's coming out then there are plenty of extras that you would be mad not to do at the same time.
This car's not likely to only cost you purchase price plus engine rebuild IMO.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff