911 buying advice
Discussion
Having chosen a brand new TVR Chimaera 450 in 1998 instead of a used 993, and feeling like I made the wrong choice ever since (loved the tvr but not the maintenance and depreciation). Now have decided life's too short and I should go buy a nice 911 cab as a weekend car. Part of my justification is that they hold their value so well - if I choose well. 996s don't hold their value and it seems 997 gen 1s may be the same - prices keep dropping. Are gen 2s likely to do the same or is the general feeling they're a bit more solid? Having thought at the outset I'd be able to get a 997 for around £30k my hunting ground seems more like £45-50k for a decent C4 cab. Probably wrong time of year as well! Just wondering what more experienced 911 owners think - wait till autumn and spend 45k on a 997 gen 2 and expect it to drop 10-15k over next few years, or spend less on a gen1 expecting it to drop less as well (and not fall to 996 levels??)
Just looking for experienced opinions please.
Just looking for experienced opinions please.
Expect to pay 40K+ for a decent 997 Gen 2 Cab. Don't rule out a non 4S version. I had a 997 Gen 2 C2S & loved it - have since had more expensive 911s & 981 Spyder; but the 997 I thought was excellent value for money. I would def go Gen 2 for the 997 (think 2009 onwards) as the Gen 1 have suffered engine problems. The Gen 2 has a much improved DFI engine. Personally, I would go manual if you can - more fun & rarer; although the PDK is excellent. I don't think you will lose a bomb on the 997 Gen 2 over the next few years, as GTS prices are going silly & this has had a positive effect on other 997s. I sold my 997 just over two years ago & would have to pay same money for a similar car today. I also wouldn't rule out a 981 Boxster for open top fun - smaller, nimble & again in manual form you will have a lot of fun. Stick a sports exhaust on either car for added grin factor.
youngr6 said:
Having chosen a brand new TVR Chimaera 450 in 1998 instead of a used 993...
My second Griffith was built new in 1998, chassis no. ended 2198. I now have a 996 turbo. 
As others say, there are advantages to the gen 2 engines. There's much on PH and 911uk about the potential bore scoring and other issues on 996 and early 997 engines to read up on.
IME it's always going to be better buying a droptop in the winter and, probably, a sports car too. Best to buy from an OPC, or very, very well reputed dealer for peace of mind, but otherwise buy nothing without a PPI (pre purchase inspection) by an independent expert,
Really think you should consider a boxster if you want to go down the Cab route. I think they are epic cars in 987.2 form (i had 987.1s from new and loved it). My car journey was from TVR also, 2.8S1, V8S, Griff 4.0, Griff 500 (owned for 5y), Boxster 987S, 997.1 C2S, 997.1 C4S Cab, 997.1 Turbo, 997.1 Turbo Cab. 997.2 GTS. Even today, i remember my Griff 500 and 987 boxster as some of the most fun of all of that list.
c4sman said:
Really think you should consider a boxster if you want to go down the Cab route. I think they are epic cars in 987.2 form (i had 987.1s from new and loved it). My car journey was from TVR also, 2.8S1, V8S, Griff 4.0, Griff 500 (owned for 5y), Boxster 987S, 997.1 C2S, 997.1 C4S Cab, 997.1 Turbo, 997.1 Turbo Cab. 997.2 GTS. Even today, i remember my Griff 500 and 987 boxster as some of the most fun of all of that list.
Does the boxster not lack power compared to say the 997.1 C2S though - isn't it about a 20% power increase from the Boxster to the C2S?The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I guess it's relative to the driver to a certain extent - I've owned a couple of 400-420 bhp cars as my main driver for the 7 years or so prior to owning the Porsche, so 300 bhp feels a bit slow to me. No doubt if I were used to driving 500 bhp cars, 400 bhp would feel slow.That's probably why I feel the 385 bhp of the 997.2 C2S would be perfect. Will have to drive one to find out!
Interesting, thanks! Its this perpetual loop I get into - the more research you do the more you find there's a better/newer model and the reasons for it, but obviously the price goes up accordingly as well. I think I may wait until after Summer and see what happens with Gen 2 prices. Having said that, some low miles Gen 1 cab's around as well at 25-35k. Thanks for the input.
youngsyr said:
Does the boxster not lack power compared to say the 997.1 C2S though - isn't it about a 20% power increase from the Boxster to the C2S?
The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
Mine must be broken then. Feels far from lazy!The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
It's not starship quick, but it's still a very, very, quick car for most daily use and definitely not lazy. Get up on the torque bump at 3800-4000 and it wants to go, and with it being nice and smooth, that's not really a hardship.
I think the problem is the gearing is quite long, you can get well, well over a ton in fourth, so if you shuffle up the gears like any normal car it can feel slightly lethargic below variocam switch point. For this reason, I find consciously keeping a gear lower than the one you think, and treating sixth as a cruise/overdrive gear is instructive. On twisty country lanes, you probably won't get out of third if you're 'using' the car, which gives you the punch needed out of the bends, and good engine braking too.
Of course I wouldn't complain with another 50hp, but it's perfectly usable and sweet spinning as is..
bgunn said:
youngsyr said:
Does the boxster not lack power compared to say the 997.1 C2S though - isn't it about a 20% power increase from the Boxster to the C2S?
The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
Mine must be broken then. Feels far from lazy!The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
It's not starship quick, but it's still a very, very, quick car for most daily use and definitely not lazy. Get up on the torque bump at 3800-4000 and it wants to go, and with it being nice and smooth, that's not really a hardship.
I think the problem is the gearing is quite long, you can get well, well over a ton in fourth, so if you shuffle up the gears like any normal car it can feel slightly lethargic below variocam switch point. For this reason, I find consciously keeping a gear lower than the one you think, and treating sixth as a cruise/overdrive gear is instructive. On twisty country lanes, you probably won't get out of third if you're 'using' the car, which gives you the punch needed out of the bends, and good engine braking too.
Of course I wouldn't complain with another 50hp, but it's perfectly usable and sweet spinning as is..
I guess I just miss the torque of the Evo.
youngsyr said:
Does the boxster not lack power compared to say the 997.1 C2S though - isn't it about a 20% power increase from the Boxster to the C2S?
The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
Drive before you buy as I think a recent ish Boxster S would be plenty quick enough as although less poke than a 911 they are lighter. Also depends on how you use the car and where. Most of my driving in the GTS means I can't use much of the power much of the time. Occasionally I miss my turbos in a straight line for about 3 seconds before I spot the speed camera that would have got me banned as I would have been travelling 20mph faster than I am.....The only thing I'd change about my 996.1 C2 Cab is the power - at 300 bhp it just feels a bit lazy. I think 385 bhp would be ideal for road use - quick enough to give you the g force and adrenaline rush, but not so quick you can't give it full throttle to the red line in a couple of gears at legal(ish) speeds.
youngr6 said:
OK... I ended up going for a 997.1 S Cab Manual '05 - just need to find someone in the Bournemouth area that can do an inspection - any suggestions?
One of the better known and not too far away: http://www.porscheinspections.com/index.phpUnless anyone else can advise better?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for the help on here. Had the 997.1 inspected at Dorset Sports Cars, they gave really good service and talked me and the owner around the first part of the inspection on the ramps, before we left them to do the bore scope inspection. All went well, a few things that need sorting but not urgent and by the sounds of it fairly common. So did the deal, picked it up from the garage and went for a nice evening drive. Love it, so worth the wait (many years since I had a "proper" car). That sound when the engines warm - priceless.
youngr6 said:
Thanks for the help on here. Had the 997.1 inspected at Dorset Sports Cars, they gave really good service and talked me and the owner around the first part of the inspection on the ramps, before we left them to do the bore scope inspection. All went well, a few things that need sorting but not urgent and by the sounds of it fairly common. So did the deal, picked it up from the garage and went for a nice evening drive. Love it, so worth the wait (many years since I had a "proper" car). That sound when the engines warm - priceless.
A happy ending! Well done.Of course, we need pictures now.
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