Gts to gt3 991.1
Discussion
I went from a 991.1 GTS to a 991.2 GT3. The difference is night and day. I also had a 991.2 C2S before that, so I’ve worked my way through the range.
Short answer:
The C2S is an exceptionally good GT car.
The GTS is an superb sports car.
The GT3 is an outstanding track car.
Long answer:
Each car completes its designated task handsomely. So it really just depends what you value and how/where you intend to drive. I used all three cars as my DDs, and I took all three cars on track regularly. The experience of a GT3 on track is simply other-worldly, razor-sharp and involving, and it makes the C2S feel like a milk float by comparison. However for the 95% of the time you just drive about town or on the motorway, the C2S is the more comfortable car. The GTS, meanwhile, is a nice compromise between the two. Make no mistake about it though: there is a much bigger difference between the GTS and the GT3, than between the C2S and the GTS. The GT3 really is a very different car: tight, nervous, noisy and mechanical, whereas the GTS is just a very handsomely specced regular 911. Note also that the 991.1 GTS, with all its NA glory, is closer to the GT3 than the 991.2 turbocharged GTS, which to me has lost much of the sharpness and sense of occasion by comparison.
Finally, some comments about usability of the GT3: I had expected the car to be a serious pain for daily driving. However it’s just fine. The bucket seats are perfectly comfortable. The ride is compliant enough for crappy London roads if you keep the suspension on the normal setting. The noise won’t infuriate your neighbours if you keep the sports exhaust off. And the lack of parking sensors and other creature comforts is very quickly forgotten. Also, people just leave you in peace. It’s not like you’re driving a Lamborghini where you invite stares and “w
ker” signs from passers-by at every traffic light. The car only really attracts comments from real petrolheads, and that is nice.
I really do use my GT3 every day, and I have no problems with its usability. The only two watch-outs are: (1) the cup tires are magnificent when warmed up on track, but they’re dreadful in the cold and wet. I slide in London traffic! (2) even with the nose lift, you’ll want to avoid parking garages and the like with steep inclines. Ground clearance is ok, and speed humps aren’t a problem, but there are limits to where you can go.
Short answer:
The C2S is an exceptionally good GT car.
The GTS is an superb sports car.
The GT3 is an outstanding track car.
Long answer:
Each car completes its designated task handsomely. So it really just depends what you value and how/where you intend to drive. I used all three cars as my DDs, and I took all three cars on track regularly. The experience of a GT3 on track is simply other-worldly, razor-sharp and involving, and it makes the C2S feel like a milk float by comparison. However for the 95% of the time you just drive about town or on the motorway, the C2S is the more comfortable car. The GTS, meanwhile, is a nice compromise between the two. Make no mistake about it though: there is a much bigger difference between the GTS and the GT3, than between the C2S and the GTS. The GT3 really is a very different car: tight, nervous, noisy and mechanical, whereas the GTS is just a very handsomely specced regular 911. Note also that the 991.1 GTS, with all its NA glory, is closer to the GT3 than the 991.2 turbocharged GTS, which to me has lost much of the sharpness and sense of occasion by comparison.
Finally, some comments about usability of the GT3: I had expected the car to be a serious pain for daily driving. However it’s just fine. The bucket seats are perfectly comfortable. The ride is compliant enough for crappy London roads if you keep the suspension on the normal setting. The noise won’t infuriate your neighbours if you keep the sports exhaust off. And the lack of parking sensors and other creature comforts is very quickly forgotten. Also, people just leave you in peace. It’s not like you’re driving a Lamborghini where you invite stares and “w
ker” signs from passers-by at every traffic light. The car only really attracts comments from real petrolheads, and that is nice. I really do use my GT3 every day, and I have no problems with its usability. The only two watch-outs are: (1) the cup tires are magnificent when warmed up on track, but they’re dreadful in the cold and wet. I slide in London traffic! (2) even with the nose lift, you’ll want to avoid parking garages and the like with steep inclines. Ground clearance is ok, and speed humps aren’t a problem, but there are limits to where you can go.
Given the costs involved with changing, OP could do worse than book a test at PEC Silverstone. I've only ever driven their cars on their track/circuits/test areas, but IIRC, you can also arrange to drive on the road too.
I'm fairly sure the centre will have examples of both 991.1 and .2 GT3 there still.
I'm fairly sure the centre will have examples of both 991.1 and .2 GT3 there still.
I think the difference between the mainstream 991s is fairly marginal, although the N.A v turbos divide opinions.
Not owned a GT3, but a very close friend has had most variants from 996 to latest Touring, which I have spent some time in.
Firstly, it's a misnomer that the GT3 is mainly designed for track use. I would guess that most never see a track and spend most of their lives being enjoyed on the road. There are few compromises and lots that are very special. You can't fail to be impressed every time you hear the engine start or accelerate through the rev range. And the chassis feels fantastic, even from the passenger seat, and excellent ride refinement - perhaps firmer at low speeds and a bit more tyre noise. Definitely a much more tactile experience.
Not owned a GT3, but a very close friend has had most variants from 996 to latest Touring, which I have spent some time in.
Firstly, it's a misnomer that the GT3 is mainly designed for track use. I would guess that most never see a track and spend most of their lives being enjoyed on the road. There are few compromises and lots that are very special. You can't fail to be impressed every time you hear the engine start or accelerate through the rev range. And the chassis feels fantastic, even from the passenger seat, and excellent ride refinement - perhaps firmer at low speeds and a bit more tyre noise. Definitely a much more tactile experience.
Digga said:
Given the costs involved with changing, OP could do worse than book a test at PEC Silverstone. I've only ever driven their cars on their track/circuits/test areas, but IIRC, you can also arrange to drive on the road too.
I'm fairly sure the centre will have examples of both 991.1 and .2 GT3 there still.
^^^ Do this.... I considered moving on my GT4 for a more “practical” 991.2 GTS (basically for the rear seats— I have kids!!). My local OPC kindly arranged for a PEC drive in the new GTS (manual, of course..!!).... Have to say— night and day coming from the GT4.... Simply didn’t like it— too soft, gear change sloppy, lacked feedback.... Was desperate to get back in my GT4 at the end of the day...!!! If the GT3 is anything akin to the GT4 (which I’m sure it is), the GT cars are a breed apart..... I'm fairly sure the centre will have examples of both 991.1 and .2 GT3 there still.
Try them— let us know what you think....
Just gone from a .2 gts to a .2gt3.
I will ignore all the benefits and concentrate on your question.
The ride is firmer ,it is liveable though a long way from older gt3s I have experienced.
The biggest difference is the noise levels ,the engine is obviously noisier ,but if engine noise bothers you then don’t even consider a gt3,the biggest difference to me is the road noise ,it is much worse in the gt3.
So yes it is quite a lot different in those respects but as to whether it is too raw or not depends on your own personal tolerances,I can use it every day ,my dad for example would hate it.
I will ignore all the benefits and concentrate on your question.
The ride is firmer ,it is liveable though a long way from older gt3s I have experienced.
The biggest difference is the noise levels ,the engine is obviously noisier ,but if engine noise bothers you then don’t even consider a gt3,the biggest difference to me is the road noise ,it is much worse in the gt3.
So yes it is quite a lot different in those respects but as to whether it is too raw or not depends on your own personal tolerances,I can use it every day ,my dad for example would hate it.
I think if you are going to use it as a daily, then I would go for a 991.2 GTS. It is a monster of a car, you get all the goodies that are pretty nice to have everyday, better infotainment, apple CarPlay, a stereo that you can hear. And if you spec with the performance parts, RWS, buckets, PCCB and add the MPSC2s after the fact you will have a car that is as fast on the odd trackday.
HOWEVER, there is no denying that the GT3 adds a lot more drama, the 9000 redline and a sense of occasion that the GTS won't be able to get close to.
I have a wife and kids, and couldn't get an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 and decided to go for the GTS. I think it would be impossible for me to go back to a 991.1 GT3 now, that is how good it is.
HOWEVER, there is no denying that the GT3 adds a lot more drama, the 9000 redline and a sense of occasion that the GTS won't be able to get close to.
I have a wife and kids, and couldn't get an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 and decided to go for the GTS. I think it would be impossible for me to go back to a 991.1 GT3 now, that is how good it is.
franki68 said:
Just gone from a .2 gts to a .2gt3.
I will ignore all the benefits and concentrate on your question.
The ride is firmer ,it is liveable though a long way from older gt3s I have experienced.
The biggest difference is the noise levels ,the engine is obviously noisier ,but if engine noise bothers you then don’t even consider a gt3,the biggest difference to me is the road noise ,it is much worse in the gt3.
So yes it is quite a lot different in those respects but as to whether it is too raw or not depends on your own personal tolerances,I can use it every day ,my dad for example would hate it.
+1,I will ignore all the benefits and concentrate on your question.
The ride is firmer ,it is liveable though a long way from older gt3s I have experienced.
The biggest difference is the noise levels ,the engine is obviously noisier ,but if engine noise bothers you then don’t even consider a gt3,the biggest difference to me is the road noise ,it is much worse in the gt3.
So yes it is quite a lot different in those respects but as to whether it is too raw or not depends on your own personal tolerances,I can use it every day ,my dad for example would hate it.
If i didn't work form home and had to drive to work and back I take my GT3, no problem.
As you say, its all to do with ones personal tolerances. Like the mega strings seats debates.
acey81 said:
I think if you are going to use it as a daily, then I would go for a 991.2 GTS. It is a monster of a car, you get all the goodies that are pretty nice to have everyday, better infotainment, apple CarPlay, a stereo that you can hear. And if you spec with the performance parts, RWS, buckets, PCCB and add the MPSC2s after the fact you will have a car that is as fast on the odd trackday.
HOWEVER, there is no denying that the GT3 adds a lot more drama, the 9000 redline and a sense of occasion that the GTS won't be able to get close to.
I have a wife and kids, and couldn't get an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 and decided to go for the GTS. I think it would be impossible for me to go back to a 991.1 GT3 now, that is how good it is.
The gts is a superb car,although overjoyed at getting a gt3 allocation I was upset I had to sell the gts.HOWEVER, there is no denying that the GT3 adds a lot more drama, the 9000 redline and a sense of occasion that the GTS won't be able to get close to.
I have a wife and kids, and couldn't get an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 and decided to go for the GTS. I think it would be impossible for me to go back to a 991.1 GT3 now, that is how good it is.
Went from a 997.1 gt3 to a 991.2 gts both were new so i had a few other cars in between...
They are both fine cars the 997 was the first really useable gt3 as a daily imo ofc you lack the rear seats but i was able to use to commut across central london as well as enjoy at weekends. Reason for this mostly i think is pasm. Before this track cars simply had to be way too hard for the road.
The 991 gt3 if anything is even more suited as a daily than the 997 so sure you can use it.
Is it too hardcore as others have said only you will know.
But realistically if you are not tracking the car its about do you get enough out of what the gt3 offers over the gts. To be even asking this question its likely the GTS is a better car. Or even a regular C2.
The GTS had bags more performance than you likely will use its mega fast prob faster than the 991.1 gt3 in most situations so the Gt3 is about that noise. Even a GTS has a lot of tire noise thats one of the things thats annoying when using as a GT car with company.
I think 991s are so good, all of them, that you might be surprised how good the base one is.
Spec up a GTS right with 2wd coupe buckets and gts interior and i think its a lovely blend of sporting luxury everything is just so well put together and its my fav car to be in. You can also have the bernmester hifi if thats important to you - we are honestly not driving on great b roads as much as wed like.
That said the GT3 name still carries way more cachet and will attact a lot more attention.
The only reason i would now switch to a gt3 im sorry to say is residuals if you get allocated one its hard to justify not taking one over a GTS - its far cheaper to own the GT3 - if these cars all depreciated normally id take the GTS now.
PEC is awesome id do that for sure you would learn loads about the cars however i dont know what you would get out of it its about how the cars compare on the road that should determine this choice unless its going to be used largely as a track car.
These things are like anything, wine, watches, scotch...you can learn to aquire expensive taste quite easily
They are both fine cars the 997 was the first really useable gt3 as a daily imo ofc you lack the rear seats but i was able to use to commut across central london as well as enjoy at weekends. Reason for this mostly i think is pasm. Before this track cars simply had to be way too hard for the road.
The 991 gt3 if anything is even more suited as a daily than the 997 so sure you can use it.
Is it too hardcore as others have said only you will know.
But realistically if you are not tracking the car its about do you get enough out of what the gt3 offers over the gts. To be even asking this question its likely the GTS is a better car. Or even a regular C2.
The GTS had bags more performance than you likely will use its mega fast prob faster than the 991.1 gt3 in most situations so the Gt3 is about that noise. Even a GTS has a lot of tire noise thats one of the things thats annoying when using as a GT car with company.
I think 991s are so good, all of them, that you might be surprised how good the base one is.
Spec up a GTS right with 2wd coupe buckets and gts interior and i think its a lovely blend of sporting luxury everything is just so well put together and its my fav car to be in. You can also have the bernmester hifi if thats important to you - we are honestly not driving on great b roads as much as wed like.
That said the GT3 name still carries way more cachet and will attact a lot more attention.
The only reason i would now switch to a gt3 im sorry to say is residuals if you get allocated one its hard to justify not taking one over a GTS - its far cheaper to own the GT3 - if these cars all depreciated normally id take the GTS now.
PEC is awesome id do that for sure you would learn loads about the cars however i dont know what you would get out of it its about how the cars compare on the road that should determine this choice unless its going to be used largely as a track car.
These things are like anything, wine, watches, scotch...you can learn to aquire expensive taste quite easily
blackmamba said:
I think the last GT3 you can legitimately fit rear belts to is the 997.1. All since have single skin rear platforms. I think it would still require very careful declaration to your insurance company.
^^^^ Been there, done that— spoken to nearly all viable UK companies within the “Porsche Modification” industry.... Apparently, the lack of rear mounts make it nigh on impossible to fit rear seats to any 991 GT model.... Simple as.... If the rear seats are of utmost importance, get a 991 GTS or, even better, a 997 GT3 and have the seats installed.... TDT said:
v8ksn said:
Yep!
Another option is to have rear seats installed in the GT3, i'm sure its possible
People have been searching for this holy grail since 1999. - I want rear seats in my GT3!Another option is to have rear seats installed in the GT3, i'm sure its possible
See: Inertia House, Lowther Road, Edgware, Stanmore, Middx HA7 1EP
notsomadmick said:
TDT said:
v8ksn said:
Yep!
Another option is to have rear seats installed in the GT3, i'm sure its possible
People have been searching for this holy grail since 1999. - I want rear seats in my GT3!Another option is to have rear seats installed in the GT3, i'm sure its possible
See: Inertia House, Lowther Road, Edgware, Stanmore, Middx HA7 1EP
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