Upgrading Bose system in a 991.2 GT3 Touring
Discussion
Does anyone have experience upgrading the audio system?
I am leaning towards just replacing the door speakers due to weight savings, but I am tempted to fit a subwoofer.
I found a speaker upgrade option for non Bose cars, but am not sure if the doors cards and internals are different.
I am considering at the moment:
Morel Elate Ti M9 woofers (Will need to buy)
Morel Limited Carbon Mid and tweeter (from a previous car)
JL 900/5 (from a previous car)
Audison Bit One (from previous car)
Advice appreciated
I am leaning towards just replacing the door speakers due to weight savings, but I am tempted to fit a subwoofer.
I found a speaker upgrade option for non Bose cars, but am not sure if the doors cards and internals are different.
I am considering at the moment:
Morel Elate Ti M9 woofers (Will need to buy)
Morel Limited Carbon Mid and tweeter (from a previous car)
JL 900/5 (from a previous car)
Audison Bit One (from previous car)
Advice appreciated
Edited by BrntRubber on Friday 17th August 15:11
BrntRubber said:
Porsche911R said:
Ti bypass pipe :-)
A rear bypass is being fitted and is already waiting at my house. I am one step ahead.The Bose system is quite disappointing to be honest. It lacks, power, depth, low end and the door cards vibrate quite badly.
Cheib said:
I’d have thought given the road noise and that bloody fantastic engine you’d struggle to hear the improved set up that much. I’ve got a fairly decent hifi at home but just don’t think it’s worth the money in a car like the GT3.
Double gauche said:
If the Bose is poor, how bad must the standard system be ! ?
I think the noise in the cabin is too loud to be able to enjoy a high quality sound system.
I speccd Bose as I thought it would be louder
My ears are old and bent.
I had the same thoughts before a system went in a 458. The power, detail and lower bottom end can certainly be enjoyed, even when pushing the car hard.I think the noise in the cabin is too loud to be able to enjoy a high quality sound system.
I speccd Bose as I thought it would be louder
My ears are old and bent.
The system as is shouldn’t even be considered an upgrade at all to be honest and the vein rating doors from new is shocking.
I've upgraded my standard sound system in a 991.1 C4S to a custom build. A 991.2 GT3 will be quite similar, I think. From the audio point of view, anyway!
I've replaced the tweeters with a pair of Dynaudio Esotec MD 102s, the main door speakers with Audison Prima 8s and the mids with Audison Voce 3s. To drive this lot I used a Mosconi D2 80.6 six channel DSP amplifier and added a Focal BE13 as the sub-woofer driven by a Rockford Fosgate Punch 300 (the standard system - Sound System Plus - doesn't come with any sort of sub-woofer). Total power output is 480+300 but I've got it configured for less than that. Even so, I've never even got the thing to half way up the scale - I'd go deaf.
I'm still working on it - the sub-woofer needs a bit more work, and I'm still finding my way around digital signal processors (DSPs are a *lot* more complicated than good old fashioned bass and treble!).
My rules were:
1) no butchering the wiring harness. Everything has to be reversible if a future owner doesn't like what I've done (or I don't either, for that matter).
2) OEM look. No boom boxes or false bottoms in the frunk.
That constrained the choice of amplifiers (they both fit snugly in the amplifier cavity under the drivers seat, replacing the original amplifier) and the speakers to certain extent. I'm no audiophile, so I didn't go overboard in over-specifying the speakers. I did spend quite a lot of time researching what amplifiers would fit and so on. With a Bose system it would be easier, since you've already got the sub-woofer system in there.
The results are amazing!
1) no door rattles even at high volume - the original system really suffered here.
2) beautifully clear treble from the Esotecs. Original system ... treble, what's that?
3) a clear and well defined sound stage (that's what the DSP really adds - you can tune each speaker individually for the correct distance from your ears and driving position).
It's not a simple job, but any competent after-market system installer should be able to do something similar. I machined up all the adapters out of acetal and installed the wiring, including taking a new 80A power line from the power distributor (doing that was a right royal pain in the butt).
Total cost to date in parts is around £1600. Worth every penny, too. You could spend a lot more on the speakers, but I'm not at all sure you would get much more sound quality - the 911 environment isn't exactly a concert hall.
I've replaced the tweeters with a pair of Dynaudio Esotec MD 102s, the main door speakers with Audison Prima 8s and the mids with Audison Voce 3s. To drive this lot I used a Mosconi D2 80.6 six channel DSP amplifier and added a Focal BE13 as the sub-woofer driven by a Rockford Fosgate Punch 300 (the standard system - Sound System Plus - doesn't come with any sort of sub-woofer). Total power output is 480+300 but I've got it configured for less than that. Even so, I've never even got the thing to half way up the scale - I'd go deaf.
I'm still working on it - the sub-woofer needs a bit more work, and I'm still finding my way around digital signal processors (DSPs are a *lot* more complicated than good old fashioned bass and treble!).
My rules were:
1) no butchering the wiring harness. Everything has to be reversible if a future owner doesn't like what I've done (or I don't either, for that matter).
2) OEM look. No boom boxes or false bottoms in the frunk.
That constrained the choice of amplifiers (they both fit snugly in the amplifier cavity under the drivers seat, replacing the original amplifier) and the speakers to certain extent. I'm no audiophile, so I didn't go overboard in over-specifying the speakers. I did spend quite a lot of time researching what amplifiers would fit and so on. With a Bose system it would be easier, since you've already got the sub-woofer system in there.
The results are amazing!
1) no door rattles even at high volume - the original system really suffered here.
2) beautifully clear treble from the Esotecs. Original system ... treble, what's that?
3) a clear and well defined sound stage (that's what the DSP really adds - you can tune each speaker individually for the correct distance from your ears and driving position).
It's not a simple job, but any competent after-market system installer should be able to do something similar. I machined up all the adapters out of acetal and installed the wiring, including taking a new 80A power line from the power distributor (doing that was a right royal pain in the butt).
Total cost to date in parts is around £1600. Worth every penny, too. You could spend a lot more on the speakers, but I'm not at all sure you would get much more sound quality - the 911 environment isn't exactly a concert hall.
Edited by Forrester1 on Friday 17th August 23:16
Forrester1 said:
I've upgraded my standard sound system in a 991.1 C4S to a custom build. A 991.2 GT3 will be quite similar, I think. From the audio point of view, anyway!
I've replaced the tweeters with a pair of Dynaudio Esotec MD 102s, the main door speakers with Audison Prima 8s and the mids with Audison Voce 3s. To drive this lot I used a Mosconi D2 80.6 six channel DSP amplifier and added a Focal BE13 as the sub-woofer driven by a Rockford Fosgate Punch 300 (the standard system - Sound System Plus - doesn't come with any sort of sub-woofer). Total power output is 480+300 but I've got it configured for less than that. Even so, I've never even got the thing to half way up the scale - I'd go deaf.
I'm still working on it - the sub-woofer needs a bit more work, and I'm still finding my way around digital signal processors (DSPs are a *lot* more complicated than good old fashioned bass and treble!).
My rules were:
1) no butchering the wiring harness. Everything has to be reversible if a future owner doesn't like what I've done (or I don't either, for that matter).
2) OEM look. No boom boxes or false bottoms in the frunk.
That constrained the choice of amplifiers (they both fit snugly in the amplifier cavity under the drivers seat, replacing the original amplifier) and the speakers to certain extent. I'm no audiophile, so I didn't go overboard in over-specifying the speakers. I did spend quite a lot of time researching what amplifiers would fit and so on. With a Bose system it would be easier, since you've already got the sub-woofer system in there.
The results are amazing!
1) no door rattles even at high volume - the original system really suffered here.
2) beautifully clear treble from the Esotecs. Original system ... treble, what's that?
3) a clear and well defined sound stage (that's what the DSP really adds - you can tune each speaker individually for the correct distance from your ears and driving position).
It's not a simple job, but any competent after-market system installer should be able to do something similar. I machined up all the adapters out of acetal and installed the wiring, including taking a new 80A power line from the power distributor (doing that was a right royal pain in the butt).
Total cost to date in parts is around £1600. Worth every penny, too. You could spend a lot more on the speakers, but I'm not at all sure you would get much more sound quality - the 911 environment isn't exactly a concert hall.
Congrats on the build, sounds awesome!I've replaced the tweeters with a pair of Dynaudio Esotec MD 102s, the main door speakers with Audison Prima 8s and the mids with Audison Voce 3s. To drive this lot I used a Mosconi D2 80.6 six channel DSP amplifier and added a Focal BE13 as the sub-woofer driven by a Rockford Fosgate Punch 300 (the standard system - Sound System Plus - doesn't come with any sort of sub-woofer). Total power output is 480+300 but I've got it configured for less than that. Even so, I've never even got the thing to half way up the scale - I'd go deaf.
I'm still working on it - the sub-woofer needs a bit more work, and I'm still finding my way around digital signal processors (DSPs are a *lot* more complicated than good old fashioned bass and treble!).
My rules were:
1) no butchering the wiring harness. Everything has to be reversible if a future owner doesn't like what I've done (or I don't either, for that matter).
2) OEM look. No boom boxes or false bottoms in the frunk.
That constrained the choice of amplifiers (they both fit snugly in the amplifier cavity under the drivers seat, replacing the original amplifier) and the speakers to certain extent. I'm no audiophile, so I didn't go overboard in over-specifying the speakers. I did spend quite a lot of time researching what amplifiers would fit and so on. With a Bose system it would be easier, since you've already got the sub-woofer system in there.
The results are amazing!
1) no door rattles even at high volume - the original system really suffered here.
2) beautifully clear treble from the Esotecs. Original system ... treble, what's that?
3) a clear and well defined sound stage (that's what the DSP really adds - you can tune each speaker individually for the correct distance from your ears and driving position).
It's not a simple job, but any competent after-market system installer should be able to do something similar. I machined up all the adapters out of acetal and installed the wiring, including taking a new 80A power line from the power distributor (doing that was a right royal pain in the butt).
Total cost to date in parts is around £1600. Worth every penny, too. You could spend a lot more on the speakers, but I'm not at all sure you would get much more sound quality - the 911 environment isn't exactly a concert hall.
Edited by Forrester1 on Friday 17th August 23:16
Where did you locate the subwoofer? That Focal sub is big mama!
Post some pics please, would love to see it!
Porsche911R said:
BOSE does the job for me, SPP is very bad, I have 2 cars with BOSE and while I dislike the company, it works ok and is a big step on from SPP. No regrets spacing it in my GT3 my door cards don’t shake either, so not sure what people expect or how loud people have their systems.
I can’t imagine how bad SPP must be. For a paid upgrade the Bose doesn’t one close to BMW, in my opinion.I've also got a GT3 Touring with BOSE and I don't think it's terrible. It doesn't sound amazing but it's quite listenable, clear at high volumes and if you set "linear" mode it doesn't mess with the music too much. My basis for comparison is the Sensonum system in my Aventador S, a very expensive option. While it has more punch, the sound it produces is dreadful. It sounds like you're under water and the vocals are totally drowned out. There's no configuration aside from Bass, Treble and GALA.
Watching this thread with interest. If the Touring stays with me long term I'd love to upgrade the sound. I disagree that it's pointless in a fast road car. Opportunities to exploit the performance are few and far between. Making the car more enjoyable to use day to day means you'll use it more and when the road does open up you can turn down the tunes and use the car to its full potential.
Watching this thread with interest. If the Touring stays with me long term I'd love to upgrade the sound. I disagree that it's pointless in a fast road car. Opportunities to exploit the performance are few and far between. Making the car more enjoyable to use day to day means you'll use it more and when the road does open up you can turn down the tunes and use the car to its full potential.
dad_drive said:
I've also got a GT3 Touring with BOSE and I don't think it's terrible. It doesn't sound amazing but it's quite listenable, clear at high volumes and if you set "linear" mode it doesn't mess with the music too much. My basis for comparison is the Sensonum system in my Aventador S, a very expensive option. While it has more punch, the sound it produces is dreadful. It sounds like you're under water and the vocals are totally drowned out. There's no configuration aside from Bass, Treble and GALA.
Watching this thread with interest. If the Touring stays with me long term I'd love to upgrade the sound. I disagree that it's pointless in a fast road car. Opportunities to exploit the performance are few and far between. Making the car more enjoyable to use day to day means you'll use it more and when the road does open up you can turn down the tunes and use the car to its full potential.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m in London if you want a listen when it’s done.Watching this thread with interest. If the Touring stays with me long term I'd love to upgrade the sound. I disagree that it's pointless in a fast road car. Opportunities to exploit the performance are few and far between. Making the car more enjoyable to use day to day means you'll use it more and when the road does open up you can turn down the tunes and use the car to its full potential.
SSP vs Bose: I've not been able to tell the difference in a 991.1. Bose have upgraded the system in the 991.2 so it might be better. I have listened to a Bose in a 718 and while it's ok, the bog standard sound system in my BMW F11 Touring is still a lot better.
I approached the upgrade in stages trying to figure out what actually made the difference. Briefly, this is what I found:
1) Tweeters: vast improvement. The Esotecs made a huge difference all by themselves. Easy to do as well.
2) Woofers: I used Audison Prima 8s (150W rms). This seemed to make things a bit worse, basically because they weren't matched to the amp. Door vibration went, but when I cranked up the volume the floor pan started vibrating! I could feel the sound through my feet. Probably because too much base was being sent to the speakers. However, what did make a difference was the acetal adapter I machined up. This was from 16mm acetal (Delrin) to get the necessary clearance from the window glass and consequently was pretty stiff. So when this was screwed to the door panel (flimsy 2.5mm plastic) it acted as a really good stiffener between the speaker and the panel and seemed to stop the panel vibrating. I've seen people do this in MDF and I don't think will work as well. However, this a conjecture - I don't really know for sure.
3) Mids: I chose Voce 3s to fit the existing door cavity rather than any other reason - but they improved matters considerably. Much better sound overall. Very pleased with them really.
4) Sub-woofer: makes a difference but not as much as I thought it might. I think this is probably due to the way I've made the adapter - the speaker cone is too close to the dash panel in my original adapter design and I think this is muffling the sound. I'm going to expand the gap quite a bit when I get some time and a rainy day or two. I'm enjoying driving in this lovely weather too much to do any engineering right now. The Focal Utopia BE13 is a 4 ohm 130mm speaker, so it does fit in the space under the dash where the Bose/Burmeister sub goes. I might experiment with another sub in there - a 2 ohm speaker will give me 150 W RMS of base with the Punch amplifier. We'll see.
5) DSP: I would have liked to use an 8 channel Mosconi but it wouldn't fit in the hole under the seat due to the damned tracker! I did think about removing the tracker, but it isn't easy to remove (by design, I guess). I don't use my tracker any more - the insurance company required it when I first got the car, but then after a year decided it wasn't needed. Since the tracker is incredibly easy to jam and costs a fair bit per year, I decided I could live without it. The DSP makes all the difference, though. You can route the correct amount of bass through to the woofers and get the mids working perfectly. I'm still experimenting with the settings - as I've said, I'm no audiophile. I would guess an expert would be able to do a much better job than I can. Still, even with my limited knowledge, I can get the system to sound how I like it.
Pics to follow when I get some more time later on.
I approached the upgrade in stages trying to figure out what actually made the difference. Briefly, this is what I found:
1) Tweeters: vast improvement. The Esotecs made a huge difference all by themselves. Easy to do as well.
2) Woofers: I used Audison Prima 8s (150W rms). This seemed to make things a bit worse, basically because they weren't matched to the amp. Door vibration went, but when I cranked up the volume the floor pan started vibrating! I could feel the sound through my feet. Probably because too much base was being sent to the speakers. However, what did make a difference was the acetal adapter I machined up. This was from 16mm acetal (Delrin) to get the necessary clearance from the window glass and consequently was pretty stiff. So when this was screwed to the door panel (flimsy 2.5mm plastic) it acted as a really good stiffener between the speaker and the panel and seemed to stop the panel vibrating. I've seen people do this in MDF and I don't think will work as well. However, this a conjecture - I don't really know for sure.
3) Mids: I chose Voce 3s to fit the existing door cavity rather than any other reason - but they improved matters considerably. Much better sound overall. Very pleased with them really.
4) Sub-woofer: makes a difference but not as much as I thought it might. I think this is probably due to the way I've made the adapter - the speaker cone is too close to the dash panel in my original adapter design and I think this is muffling the sound. I'm going to expand the gap quite a bit when I get some time and a rainy day or two. I'm enjoying driving in this lovely weather too much to do any engineering right now. The Focal Utopia BE13 is a 4 ohm 130mm speaker, so it does fit in the space under the dash where the Bose/Burmeister sub goes. I might experiment with another sub in there - a 2 ohm speaker will give me 150 W RMS of base with the Punch amplifier. We'll see.
5) DSP: I would have liked to use an 8 channel Mosconi but it wouldn't fit in the hole under the seat due to the damned tracker! I did think about removing the tracker, but it isn't easy to remove (by design, I guess). I don't use my tracker any more - the insurance company required it when I first got the car, but then after a year decided it wasn't needed. Since the tracker is incredibly easy to jam and costs a fair bit per year, I decided I could live without it. The DSP makes all the difference, though. You can route the correct amount of bass through to the woofers and get the mids working perfectly. I'm still experimenting with the settings - as I've said, I'm no audiophile. I would guess an expert would be able to do a much better job than I can. Still, even with my limited knowledge, I can get the system to sound how I like it.
Pics to follow when I get some more time later on.
Check out @woppum on Instagram. He had his 991.1 RS done by some company in London. Looked and guess sounded amazing
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCVgDyfobO8/?hl=en&...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCVgDyfobO8/?hl=en&...
Edited by rkwm1 on Saturday 18th August 15:50
Forrester1 said:
4) Sub-woofer: makes a difference but not as much as I thought it might. I think this is probably due to the way I've made the adapter - the speaker cone is too close to the dash panel in my original adapter design and I think this is muffling the sound. I'm going to expand the gap quite a bit when I get some time and a rainy day or two. I'm enjoying driving in this lovely weather too much to do any engineering right now. The Focal Utopia BE13 is a 4 ohm 130mm speaker, so it does fit in the space under the dash where the Bose/Burmeister sub goes. I might experiment with another sub in there - a 2 ohm speaker will give me 150 W RMS of base with the Punch amplifier. We'll see.
Pics to follow when I get some more time later on.
Space under the dash that fits a Sub? Where is this space? Passenger or drivers side? Was the focal the largest driver that fit?Pics to follow when I get some more time later on.
This would be a massive help to me as I was debating between the rear shelf and passenger footwell for a sub. I am very excited to hear more.
Does it allow for something sealed or infinite baffle only?
Any idea on the measurements of that space?
Any pics of the space or area?
Edited by BrntRubber on Saturday 18th August 16:17
BrntRubber said:
Space under the dash that fits a Utopia BE13! Where is this space? Passenger or drivers side?
This would be a massive help to me as I was debating between the rear shelf and passenger footwell for a sub. I am very excited to hear more.
Does it allow for something sealed or infinite baffle only?
Any idea on the measurements of that space?
Any pics of the space or area?
Both driver and passenger side, but you want the driver side. Infinite baffle - no room for enclosure, I think. There's a sound tube that runs under the dash to the other side that connects the apertures in the dash, so you can install either for LHD or RHD. Both Bose and Burmeister use infinite baffle. The Burmeister sub is like a brick compared to the Bose, though, and from all accounts a lot better. So I think with a decent sub-woofer in there, you should be able to get a good base. Not as good as a rear shelf box, but quite acceptable, I would think. This would be a massive help to me as I was debating between the rear shelf and passenger footwell for a sub. I am very excited to hear more.
Does it allow for something sealed or infinite baffle only?
Any idea on the measurements of that space?
Any pics of the space or area?
If you have Bose installed, you can see the speaker if you stick your head right under the steering wheel (and put a right angle in your back while you are at it - to do any serious work, you may well have to remove the seat. I did.). It's on the far right under the dash, just above the gateway module. The dimensions are a little tricky as there are other things in there that might get in the way. I think there is room for a 180mm speaker, but I'm not at all sure. I am going to experiment when I modify the adapter.
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