996 Turbo manual vs. Tiptronic - decision time
Discussion
Hi there,
Been lurking around here for a while and reading whilst thinking about buying a 996 Turbo (LHD to take from the UK to Germany).
These plans have now gotten a little more concrete and I have the option of buying a manual or Tiptronic and wanted to hear a few thoughts around the two cars I am looking at specifically:
The Tiptronic is a silver / black (outside / inside) MY2001, c. 70k km / 43k miles, originally a Russian delivery (C38 country code) but according to service books has always lived in Japan, most likely owned by one or two prior owners. Full service history / books. Spec includes electric seat adjustments, heated seats.
Price would be c. £38k
The manual is also a MY2001, c. 60k km / 37k miles, originally a Japan delivery (C08 country code), also has full service history, again likely 1-2 prior owners but unclear. Full service history / books. Lapis blue outside, black leather inside. Basic spec without any additions aside from not having a sunroof (i.e. manual seat adjustment, no heated seats, etc.). Spec code 762 indicates this is a "Market launch or dealer demo car" (https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/996-98-01/) - what's to make of that, if anything?
Price is c. £40-41k.
I have driven both and would be happy with either model, although I'd generally have a slight favour towards the manual. I am not looking to take it to race tracks regularly, it should rather be a weekend/holiday car to enjoy driving.
In terms of mileage and condition, both seem fairly similar - what do people here think as to whether the manual is worth the premium? I know that at the end of the day I have to make up my mind about that, but am keen to hear other people's thoughts. Before finally committing to buying, I'd be looking to have a pre-purchase inspection done
Many thanks and looking forward to hearing the views...
Been lurking around here for a while and reading whilst thinking about buying a 996 Turbo (LHD to take from the UK to Germany).
These plans have now gotten a little more concrete and I have the option of buying a manual or Tiptronic and wanted to hear a few thoughts around the two cars I am looking at specifically:
The Tiptronic is a silver / black (outside / inside) MY2001, c. 70k km / 43k miles, originally a Russian delivery (C38 country code) but according to service books has always lived in Japan, most likely owned by one or two prior owners. Full service history / books. Spec includes electric seat adjustments, heated seats.
Price would be c. £38k
The manual is also a MY2001, c. 60k km / 37k miles, originally a Japan delivery (C08 country code), also has full service history, again likely 1-2 prior owners but unclear. Full service history / books. Lapis blue outside, black leather inside. Basic spec without any additions aside from not having a sunroof (i.e. manual seat adjustment, no heated seats, etc.). Spec code 762 indicates this is a "Market launch or dealer demo car" (https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/996-98-01/) - what's to make of that, if anything?
Price is c. £40-41k.
I have driven both and would be happy with either model, although I'd generally have a slight favour towards the manual. I am not looking to take it to race tracks regularly, it should rather be a weekend/holiday car to enjoy driving.
In terms of mileage and condition, both seem fairly similar - what do people here think as to whether the manual is worth the premium? I know that at the end of the day I have to make up my mind about that, but am keen to hear other people's thoughts. Before finally committing to buying, I'd be looking to have a pre-purchase inspection done
Many thanks and looking forward to hearing the views...
As a 996 Turbo manual owner, I'm obviously biased in favour of the manual option. The Tiptronic auto box does work very well in the 996 Turbo, especially if you tune it, but for a weekend or second car I just prefer the extra level of engagement I get from three pedals. The c. £3k price difference between the two cars is probably lower than the premium a manual would command in a C16 RHD UK car.
I might be stating the obvious here, but get a very thorough inspection done by a specialist. The 996 Turbo can hide a multitude of issues that while not especially complex to fix, are potentially labour intensive. Things like suspension parts are individually cheap, but rapidly turn into a bill for a few thousand pounds when you do a full refresh in one hit. Exhaust manifold and turbo bolts corrode and cause leaks, taking many hours to remove and replace. Boost leaks slowly erode performance and take lots of effort to track down and fix. You get the picture. I'm not trying to scare you, just emphasising that if you aren't that concerned either way about which gearbox to choose, then the results of a detailed inspection might have more of a bearing on which car is best.
I might be stating the obvious here, but get a very thorough inspection done by a specialist. The 996 Turbo can hide a multitude of issues that while not especially complex to fix, are potentially labour intensive. Things like suspension parts are individually cheap, but rapidly turn into a bill for a few thousand pounds when you do a full refresh in one hit. Exhaust manifold and turbo bolts corrode and cause leaks, taking many hours to remove and replace. Boost leaks slowly erode performance and take lots of effort to track down and fix. You get the picture. I'm not trying to scare you, just emphasising that if you aren't that concerned either way about which gearbox to choose, then the results of a detailed inspection might have more of a bearing on which car is best.
I have a 996 Turbo Tiptronic. It’s the first automatic car I’ve had & have now had it for over 3 years. Wasn’t after a 996TT, but was taken with the condition of it primarily. Being unsure if I was doing the right thing, I went & drove a manual one for comparison. Personally, I thought the tiptronic suited the car - it’s a fast, reasonably heavy, comfortable, road car, not a gt3 or similar, which are much more focused & demand a manual for ultimate involvement.
As above, an inspection may make the decision for you.
Great cars, though the tiptronic gets slated by many, it really does work well in the Turbo.
Good luck
As above, an inspection may make the decision for you.
Great cars, though the tiptronic gets slated by many, it really does work well in the Turbo.
Good luck
Manual 'box in the 996 turbo is the same as in the 996 GT3, so with a bit of money spent on short-shift kit, can have a very nice action. However, these 'boxes are also very, very well known for issues - do some Googling - as they're dealing with a lot of torque in the turbo. They can be re-built, but it's normally a four-figure bill.
Then there's the general turbo stuff to watch, like intercoolers and boost valves.
They are really great cars, but you really need to buy carefully, either from a very reputable dealer, or with an extremely thorough PPI.
Then there's the general turbo stuff to watch, like intercoolers and boost valves.
They are really great cars, but you really need to buy carefully, either from a very reputable dealer, or with an extremely thorough PPI.
Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. Having driven both cars over the weekend and slept another night over it, I think I'm leaning more towards the manual.
As it regards PPI, I was looking to have that done by either RPM Technik or JZM Porsche since they seem reputable (according to this forum) and are also not too far from where the car is located - any views / objections from the experts?
As it regards PPI, I was looking to have that done by either RPM Technik or JZM Porsche since they seem reputable (according to this forum) and are also not too far from where the car is located - any views / objections from the experts?
sPaCePiR8 said:
As it regards PPI, I was looking to have that done by either RPM Technik or JZM Porsche since they seem reputable (according to this forum) and are also not too far from where the car is located - any views / objections from the experts?
Would happily deal with either. My current car is from JZM.Outside of that area, for PPI from firms that have real knowledge of the 996 turbo, you could also try:
- Midlands/North West: Sports & Classic
- South East: Nine Excellence
Another definite vote for the manual if "weekend/holiday" car
Despite living in London I didn't even consider tips for my 997 turbo (when tip was improved over 996), PDK I would have considered but that was next price band.
Great cars but parts are expensive so get thorough PPI, mine was from 9E and was excellent - included a engine pressure test, they found a missing screw somewhere not obvious and replaced!
Despite living in London I didn't even consider tips for my 997 turbo (when tip was improved over 996), PDK I would have considered but that was next price band.
Great cars but parts are expensive so get thorough PPI, mine was from 9E and was excellent - included a engine pressure test, they found a missing screw somewhere not obvious and replaced!
sPaCePiR8 said:
Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. Having driven both cars over the weekend and slept another night over it, I think I'm leaning more towards the manual.
As it regards PPI, I was looking to have that done by either RPM Technik or JZM Porsche since they seem reputable (according to this forum) and are also not too far from where the car is located - any views / objections from the experts?
You could use Jaz in St.Albans. Steve looks after my 996 turbo.As it regards PPI, I was looking to have that done by either RPM Technik or JZM Porsche since they seem reputable (according to this forum) and are also not too far from where the car is located - any views / objections from the experts?
Really boils down to what type of transmission you want.
My 2003 Turbo was a 6-speed manual. I bought the car used with less than 10K miles. The shifting was not very smooth. This was in direct contrast to my Boxster's 5-speed shifting which was hot knife through warm butter smooth. And fast. The fastest shifting manual I've ever experienced. With no experience with the Turbo transmission I figured it was "normal".
At some point -- I forget the mileage now but say around 20K miles -- car in for service and tech spotted a selector shaft leak. After a week or so of back and forth with the factory the factory elected to replace the transmission. Oh, the car was covered with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty.
New transmission was installed and the shifting was much much, did I mention much?, better. Then the shifter broke some time after the new transmission was installed and tech suggested installing the 997 shifter which he said was a better shifter than the factory 996 shifter. I agreed and the tech was right, the shifting got a bit better.
Afterwards the tranny and shifter and clutch were just fine when I sold the car with 161K miles on it. Had the transmission out at around 120K miles to have the RMS replaced and the clutch disc had no measurable wear. (I get good life out of clutches. The clutch in my 2002 Boxster lasted 16 years, 317K miles.)
But I have to admit when I went to "replace" the Turbo I bought a car with an 8-speed automatic. A Dodge Challenger Hellcat with 707hp with around 650 ft-lbs of torque. I had had my fill of shifting and with that much HP I wanted a transmission that might offer a bit of cushion between the beast of an engine and drive train. (By way of comparison, the Turbo engine produced 420hp and 413 ft-lbs of torque.) The 8-speed auto shifts damn fast and has a manual shift mode that I can use the shift lever to up/down shift or paddles on the steering wheel.
(My Boxster replacement, a 2018 Mini JCW, I bought with a 6-speed manual transmission, so it is not like I've totally moved away from manual transmission equipped cars.)
You have to decide. I will offer up I believe the Turbo with the auto would be quicker because even with the very nice shifting of my Turbo's 6-speed it still took time to shift and this tended to mute the acceleration a bit. (The Hellcat auto just bangs into the next gear in under 0.2 of second.)
Ok, back to your Turbo choices...
Be sure you thoroughly check each car out.
Visit the car cold. Leave the AC off -- you test this later -- because if it is on the radiator fans run and this can mask any overheating issues. Start up the engine cold and get out and with the engine compartment lid open walk around the car and check body panel gaps, tires, and brakes. (1mm lip around the rotor is a sign the rotors and pads are worn out.)
Keep an ear tuned to the engine listening for any untoward noises, ticks and the like, and that the engine idles relatively smoothly but it won't be sewing machine smooth as it is too tightly tuned for that.
After some idling time then have the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride -- you as a passenger -- with the route chosen to allow the driver to demo the car as you intend to use it. A mix of city (stop/go), boulevard driving, and high speed (high way/freeway) driving.
With the Tip have the driver do a k turn to see how the cold transmission handles rapid and repeated changes in direction.
After the 15 mile test ride back at the starting point you take the car out on a 15 mile test drive, over the same route, and drive the car the same way.
The test ride and drive are critical. You must experience the car in its natural state. Engine running and on the road.
After the test ride and test drive then give the car a thorough used car check out. The CPO check list the techs use is a good starting point.
After the check out then if you can arrange to get the car in the air so a careful/thorough inspection can be made for any leak sign. Every seal, hose, hose fitting, gasket, o-ring, pipe and pipe connection needs to be checked for leak sign.
Water pump, RMS are the most common areas but with my Turbo the spoiler hydraulics leaked and were replaced (out of warranty).
The water pump developed a leak as did the RMS. The front diff axle flange seals leaked. At 130K miles all 3 radiators were leaking. Even the rear view mirror leaked, developed a shadow and had to be replaced. Then the replacement mirror manifested the same symptom 25 months later.
Two times an idler roller bearing failed -- got noisy -- and had to be replaced. The driver side radiator fan motor had to be replaced. Oh, the passenger side radiator fan motor and radiator and other hardware had to be replaced when the radiator fan motor shaft snapped (!) and this bent the fins on the radiator and damaged some of the radiator brackets/hardware. (This was taken care of under warranty, thank goodness.)
Front brakes lasted over 120K miles. At 161K miles the rears were while original getting close to needing replacement, but I sold the car before the brake warning light was on.
At 132K miles I replaced all 4 O2 sensors. One failed and I replaced all 4. The engine ran slightly better afterwards, which kind of surprised me.
Then at around 140K miles I had the coils replaced -- no error codes/misfires just felt the coils were "due". (The plugs were about 10K miles from their change by date.) After new plugs/coils the engine ran better afterwards. Because I had replaced just the plugs before several times with no change in how the engine ran I attributed the engine running better to the new coils. Apparently the coils can degrade to where engine performance is affected but not to the point the engine manifests any real signs of coil degradation, no misfires, no CEL.
My 2003 Turbo was a 6-speed manual. I bought the car used with less than 10K miles. The shifting was not very smooth. This was in direct contrast to my Boxster's 5-speed shifting which was hot knife through warm butter smooth. And fast. The fastest shifting manual I've ever experienced. With no experience with the Turbo transmission I figured it was "normal".
At some point -- I forget the mileage now but say around 20K miles -- car in for service and tech spotted a selector shaft leak. After a week or so of back and forth with the factory the factory elected to replace the transmission. Oh, the car was covered with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty.
New transmission was installed and the shifting was much much, did I mention much?, better. Then the shifter broke some time after the new transmission was installed and tech suggested installing the 997 shifter which he said was a better shifter than the factory 996 shifter. I agreed and the tech was right, the shifting got a bit better.
Afterwards the tranny and shifter and clutch were just fine when I sold the car with 161K miles on it. Had the transmission out at around 120K miles to have the RMS replaced and the clutch disc had no measurable wear. (I get good life out of clutches. The clutch in my 2002 Boxster lasted 16 years, 317K miles.)
But I have to admit when I went to "replace" the Turbo I bought a car with an 8-speed automatic. A Dodge Challenger Hellcat with 707hp with around 650 ft-lbs of torque. I had had my fill of shifting and with that much HP I wanted a transmission that might offer a bit of cushion between the beast of an engine and drive train. (By way of comparison, the Turbo engine produced 420hp and 413 ft-lbs of torque.) The 8-speed auto shifts damn fast and has a manual shift mode that I can use the shift lever to up/down shift or paddles on the steering wheel.
(My Boxster replacement, a 2018 Mini JCW, I bought with a 6-speed manual transmission, so it is not like I've totally moved away from manual transmission equipped cars.)
You have to decide. I will offer up I believe the Turbo with the auto would be quicker because even with the very nice shifting of my Turbo's 6-speed it still took time to shift and this tended to mute the acceleration a bit. (The Hellcat auto just bangs into the next gear in under 0.2 of second.)
Ok, back to your Turbo choices...
Be sure you thoroughly check each car out.
Visit the car cold. Leave the AC off -- you test this later -- because if it is on the radiator fans run and this can mask any overheating issues. Start up the engine cold and get out and with the engine compartment lid open walk around the car and check body panel gaps, tires, and brakes. (1mm lip around the rotor is a sign the rotors and pads are worn out.)
Keep an ear tuned to the engine listening for any untoward noises, ticks and the like, and that the engine idles relatively smoothly but it won't be sewing machine smooth as it is too tightly tuned for that.
After some idling time then have the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride -- you as a passenger -- with the route chosen to allow the driver to demo the car as you intend to use it. A mix of city (stop/go), boulevard driving, and high speed (high way/freeway) driving.
With the Tip have the driver do a k turn to see how the cold transmission handles rapid and repeated changes in direction.
After the 15 mile test ride back at the starting point you take the car out on a 15 mile test drive, over the same route, and drive the car the same way.
The test ride and drive are critical. You must experience the car in its natural state. Engine running and on the road.
After the test ride and test drive then give the car a thorough used car check out. The CPO check list the techs use is a good starting point.
After the check out then if you can arrange to get the car in the air so a careful/thorough inspection can be made for any leak sign. Every seal, hose, hose fitting, gasket, o-ring, pipe and pipe connection needs to be checked for leak sign.
Water pump, RMS are the most common areas but with my Turbo the spoiler hydraulics leaked and were replaced (out of warranty).
The water pump developed a leak as did the RMS. The front diff axle flange seals leaked. At 130K miles all 3 radiators were leaking. Even the rear view mirror leaked, developed a shadow and had to be replaced. Then the replacement mirror manifested the same symptom 25 months later.
Two times an idler roller bearing failed -- got noisy -- and had to be replaced. The driver side radiator fan motor had to be replaced. Oh, the passenger side radiator fan motor and radiator and other hardware had to be replaced when the radiator fan motor shaft snapped (!) and this bent the fins on the radiator and damaged some of the radiator brackets/hardware. (This was taken care of under warranty, thank goodness.)
Front brakes lasted over 120K miles. At 161K miles the rears were while original getting close to needing replacement, but I sold the car before the brake warning light was on.
At 132K miles I replaced all 4 O2 sensors. One failed and I replaced all 4. The engine ran slightly better afterwards, which kind of surprised me.
Then at around 140K miles I had the coils replaced -- no error codes/misfires just felt the coils were "due". (The plugs were about 10K miles from their change by date.) After new plugs/coils the engine ran better afterwards. Because I had replaced just the plugs before several times with no change in how the engine ran I attributed the engine running better to the new coils. Apparently the coils can degrade to where engine performance is affected but not to the point the engine manifests any real signs of coil degradation, no misfires, no CEL.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff