Know this 997.1 gt3?
Discussion
8 owner car and i dont believe its the first time its been advertised. Not sure why pccb discs would be lipped but no expert. just curious if its a known car here?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
You won't see a PCCB disc with a lip on it. Hence why the owner states they're not lipped. The PCCB wearing face is incredibly thin and if the wearing face wears out, the coarse substrate underneath will be exposed. The exposed substrate is very hard and VERY abrasive and will wear the brake pads out quicker than the pads wear out the substrate.
The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
Such is the improvement in the design of the 997 PCCBs over the these 996 items (both in size and cooling) you'll be unlikely to ever see such wear rates and delamination on anything other than a very heavily tracked 997 GT3/RS.
P.S You may want to remove your postcode from the Autotrader link ....
The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
Such is the improvement in the design of the 997 PCCBs over the these 996 items (both in size and cooling) you'll be unlikely to ever see such wear rates and delamination on anything other than a very heavily tracked 997 GT3/RS.
P.S You may want to remove your postcode from the Autotrader link ....
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 16th November 09:20
Looks very similar to a car that sold during the week before I was due to view it at Ashgoods, last September.
Brakes look okay, but need careful inspection for wear, cracks or chips. If PCCB running costs worry you, there's a kit (pads & discs with bellhousings and rear bolts for about £3.7k) you can switch to Alcon's here: https://uber9s.com/997-gt-gen-1/
Brakes look okay, but need careful inspection for wear, cracks or chips. If PCCB running costs worry you, there's a kit (pads & discs with bellhousings and rear bolts for about £3.7k) you can switch to Alcon's here: https://uber9s.com/997-gt-gen-1/
Slippydiff said:
You won't see a PCCB disc with a lip on it. Hence why the owner states they're not lipped. The PCCB wearing face is incredibly thin and if the wearing face wears out, the coarse substrate underneath will be exposed. The exposed substrate is very hard and VERY abrasive and will wear the brake pads out quicker than the pads wear out the substrate.
The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
PCCB pads are over sized and covers all the area of the disk by design ;-) you will never see a lip even when the surface has worn out as the pad is bigger than the disk area.The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
Slippydiff said:
You won't see a PCCB disc with a lip on it. Hence why the owner states they're not lipped. The PCCB wearing face is incredibly thin and if the wearing face wears out, the coarse substrate underneath will be exposed. The exposed substrate is very hard and VERY abrasive and will wear the brake pads out quicker than the pads wear out the substrate.
The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
Such is the improvement in the design of the 997 PCCBs over the these 996 items (both in size and cooling) you'll be unlikely to ever see such wear rates and delamination on anything other than a very heavily tracked 997 GT3/RS.
P.S You may want to remove your postcode from the Autotrader link ....
good catch thanks. if the one that pops up begins with dn its one i picked at random...The coarse substrate can be seen exposed on my 996 GT2 discs here :
Such is the improvement in the design of the 997 PCCBs over the these 996 items (both in size and cooling) you'll be unlikely to ever see such wear rates and delamination on anything other than a very heavily tracked 997 GT3/RS.
P.S You may want to remove your postcode from the Autotrader link ....
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 16th November 09:20
Slippydiff said:
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you will never see a wear line on the outter part of PCCB disk as the pads are over sized vs steel size pads.look at any disk you will see the inner contact wear line(I show this in a red arrow, but no outer like you would on a steel disk hence no lip and not even any contact lines.
that pic might just mean the owner fitted non approved parts/size pads !
to quote Porsche "The (pad swept height) of these pads(ie steel ones) is smaller than the large PCCB pads"
it's by design and hence you will never see a wear line on the outter of a PCCB disk.
Porsche911R said:
you will never see a wear line on the outter part of PCCB disk as the pads are over sized vs steel size pads.
look at any disk you will see the inner contact wear line(I show this in a red arrow, but no outer like you would on a steel disk hence no lip and not even any contact lines.
that pic might just mean the owner fitted non approved parts/size pads !
to quote Porsche "The (pad swept height) of these pads(ie steel ones) is smaller than the large PCCB pads"
it's by design and hence you will never see a wear line on the outter of a PCCB disk.
Of course it could !! (but only in your befuddled mind)look at any disk you will see the inner contact wear line(I show this in a red arrow, but no outer like you would on a steel disk hence no lip and not even any contact lines.
that pic might just mean the owner fitted non approved parts/size pads !
to quote Porsche "The (pad swept height) of these pads(ie steel ones) is smaller than the large PCCB pads"
it's by design and hence you will never see a wear line on the outter of a PCCB disk.
But what else could it mean ??
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 16th November 11:11
Slippydiff said:
And what else could it mean ??
Not picking a fight, just trying to explain why you don't see PCCB lips or wear lines. why did you edit the post and add an insult at the end ? , lets talk like adults and help the forum to understand PCCB's as it come up a lot.show me a worn disk with an outter line, like the inner none swept line.
the fact is the PCCB pad has a larger area height, that is just a plain fact, just trying to help the OP as you will never see a wear line on an outter PCCB disk due to the larger PCCB design pad.
here is a very worn PCCB disk with a very clear wear line, but again lacks any outter wear lines
Porsche911R said:
Not picking a fight, just trying to explain why you don't see PCCB lips or wear lines. why did you edit the post and add an insult at the end ? , lets talk like adults and help the forum to understand PCCB's as it come up a lot.
show me a worn disk with an outter line, like the inner none swept line.
the fact is the PCCB pad has a larger area height, that is just a plain fact, just trying to help the OP as you will never see a wear line on an outter PCCB disk due to the larger PCCB design pad.
here is a very worn PCCB disk with a very clear wear line, but again lacks any outter wear lines
Not picking a fight either. You appear to have missed the point of my original post, that being that the friction layer on the faces of the PCCB discs are so thin (iirc they're less than 15 thou thick) you'll never see a disc with a wear lip on it, because there is insufficient material to wear away to form a lip before the substrate is exposed. Your point about the pad overlapping the outer edge of annulus is moot one, for the reason I've given.show me a worn disk with an outter line, like the inner none swept line.
the fact is the PCCB pad has a larger area height, that is just a plain fact, just trying to help the OP as you will never see a wear line on an outter PCCB disk due to the larger PCCB design pad.
here is a very worn PCCB disk with a very clear wear line, but again lacks any outter wear lines
As for the "insult", you said the pads overlap the edge of the disc, I find a picture on Google within 30 seconds of searching that shows they don't. Go figure.
Slippydiff said:
Not picking a fight either. You appear to have missed the point of my original post, that being that the friction layer on the faces of the PCCB discs are so thin (iirc they're less than 15 thou thick) you'll never see a disc with a wear lip on it, because there is insufficient material to wear away to form a lip before the substrate is exposed. Your point about the pad overlapping the outer edge of annulus is moot one, for the reason I've given.
As for the "insult", you said the pads overlap the edge of the disc, I find a picture on Google within 30 seconds of searching that shows they don't. Go figure.
I could say moot either way and you missed my point as the PCCB pads would not allow a wear mark even if they were 4mm worn steels or 1 micron of wear !!As for the "insult", you said the pads overlap the edge of the disc, I find a picture on Google within 30 seconds of searching that shows they don't. Go figure.
so stating a thickness in that context how ever small is not helpful as they DO wear and will get THINNER !
you posting a picture means nothing as we don't know that car , I have posted 2 showing the unswept part of a disk and own 2 cars with PCCBs and you only see inner wear lines, as yes they do wear and yes you can clearly see the inner area line where the pads does not touch the disk.
The PCCB pad is a higher swept area pad by design, it's that simple so even if its 20 microns worn the outer will never lip if measured as it's impossible.
every thing wears how ever small hence why there is a reading given out by Porsche and a weight of the disk on every hub and thickness specs..
you have to look at 4 things when testing PCCB disks
1: Thickness as they do wear and Porsche do give out min specs on each disk on every hub.
2: Weight, not sure specs but if it's lighter by say a 100gramms it's toast or some thing (don't quote me , as it's different for front and rear)
3: Assess the surface roughness (Sr) of the brake discs (max. 80 ?m permitted),
4: Edge damage specs.
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