6.2 GT3 front suspension tear down
Discussion
I'd like to get the front dampers on my 6.2 GT3 rebuilt and replace the front springs, and maybe coffin arms whilst I'm in there.
I'm a relatively competent spanner monkey having dropped engines and regularly replaced corners on rally cars/circuit cars. I have a good stock of tools and the space to keep the car on axle stands for a few weeks.
Through a friend I already have access to an account with bilstein for the damper refurb, so how difficult is it to get the front end apart and then back together in relatively complete order to enable me to drive the car over to CoG for a proper geo?
What is worrying me is the amount of adjustment/concentric bushings etc. Is there so much to adjust on the front of a 6.2 GT3 it would be dangerous for me to approximate, thus needing me to trailer it to them for a geo?
Or should I just pass the whole lot and my credit card to them and have them handle it ;-)
Thoughts from anyone who has done a damper or front end refurb please.
Thanks
Chris
I'm a relatively competent spanner monkey having dropped engines and regularly replaced corners on rally cars/circuit cars. I have a good stock of tools and the space to keep the car on axle stands for a few weeks.
Through a friend I already have access to an account with bilstein for the damper refurb, so how difficult is it to get the front end apart and then back together in relatively complete order to enable me to drive the car over to CoG for a proper geo?
What is worrying me is the amount of adjustment/concentric bushings etc. Is there so much to adjust on the front of a 6.2 GT3 it would be dangerous for me to approximate, thus needing me to trailer it to them for a geo?
Or should I just pass the whole lot and my credit card to them and have them handle it ;-)
Thoughts from anyone who has done a damper or front end refurb please.
Thanks
Chris
Its not a difficult job at all.
I run cup suspension on the front of mine and have replaced everything. It doesnt add to the complexity of the task. - Save yourself the money and do it yourself.
Caster & Camber are almost predetermined by the number of spacers and the mounting holes in the LCA, ride height is easy, toe needs the most attention but provided you measure well before its not rocket science.
You will need to have it setup once you have finished, however by taking basic measurements before you start will allow you to get a rough setup when you finish which will enable to to comfortably and safely drive the car to alignment, I had to travel circa 100 miles.
CoG did mine, whom are very good, my ad-hoc set was also not as far out as I had expected.
I run cup suspension on the front of mine and have replaced everything. It doesnt add to the complexity of the task. - Save yourself the money and do it yourself.
Caster & Camber are almost predetermined by the number of spacers and the mounting holes in the LCA, ride height is easy, toe needs the most attention but provided you measure well before its not rocket science.
You will need to have it setup once you have finished, however by taking basic measurements before you start will allow you to get a rough setup when you finish which will enable to to comfortably and safely drive the car to alignment, I had to travel circa 100 miles.
CoG did mine, whom are very good, my ad-hoc set was also not as far out as I had expected.
Edited by CrashBang on Tuesday 4th December 03:18
alfapork said:
Do you guys have a good supplier for LCAs and things like toe arms and springs, the OPC seems expensive!
OPC are the cheapest, 3rd party dealers have to buy of them also !cup parts are less than 1/2 the price, so you need to just find part numbers and give them to your OPC to order.
or buy a RSS kit, but the CUP part route is by way and far the cheapest option.
On the front of a 996.2 GT3 there are no differences between cup car from a control arm perspective. - There are on the rear, but not the front.
On the front 996 Cup used 2 piece LCA with rubber mount, differences come in the form of top mount orientation, springs & dampers. - If so desired you can replace the rubber mount with a monoball from the rear of the cup car, these are however even more expensive.
Cup car mechanical parts are more expensive, stating they are 50% cheaper is utter tosh, some cup body parts, splitters etc are usually more competitive than their road counter parts as the finishes are generally worse.
If your planning on buying from an OPC, drop me a PM, I can help regarding costs.
On the front 996 Cup used 2 piece LCA with rubber mount, differences come in the form of top mount orientation, springs & dampers. - If so desired you can replace the rubber mount with a monoball from the rear of the cup car, these are however even more expensive.
Cup car mechanical parts are more expensive, stating they are 50% cheaper is utter tosh, some cup body parts, splitters etc are usually more competitive than their road counter parts as the finishes are generally worse.
If your planning on buying from an OPC, drop me a PM, I can help regarding costs.
Edited by CrashBang on Thursday 6th December 22:45
OK started to tear into this tonight, seems self explanatory, things coming apart easily so far.
I've measured the camber and castor at full droop with the wheels off using a digi gauge on the brake calliper as a hard point. Not 100% accurate but good enough to get it roughly in the same spot.
The ends of the anti roll bar look a bit crusty so I think I'll take it out and get it e-coated, everything else seems in good nick so far.
Play was halted by not having a TX-55 for the calliper bolts.
Once I have the brakes off I think I'll split the bottom ball joint and have the strut off that way rather than trying to loosen the pinch bolt in situ. Then I can have the LCA arms off and properly inspect the bushes.
I've measured the camber and castor at full droop with the wheels off using a digi gauge on the brake calliper as a hard point. Not 100% accurate but good enough to get it roughly in the same spot.
The ends of the anti roll bar look a bit crusty so I think I'll take it out and get it e-coated, everything else seems in good nick so far.
Play was halted by not having a TX-55 for the calliper bolts.
Once I have the brakes off I think I'll split the bottom ball joint and have the strut off that way rather than trying to loosen the pinch bolt in situ. Then I can have the LCA arms off and properly inspect the bushes.
CrashBang said:
If your planning on buying from an OPC, drop me a PM, I can help regarding costs.
Thanks - have done so via forum email facility.Edited by CrashBang on Thursday 6th December 22:45
Well that went pretty well.
Few questions, let's take it component by component...
This is an '05 with 31k miles on it. Most of the components look to be the items it left the factory with.
Springs, these seem to be standard H&R, starting to look a bit tired, think we'll just replace these...
These top hats look fancy. Standard?
Top mounts. 964 part number! They look in relatively reasonable nick. Should I just bother replacing these anyway
On to the dampers, which is why we are here in the first place. Can't actually find any bilstein markings on them. Hard to tell in the photos but the RH one seems to have more grease/oil on the tube than the LH.
ARB drop links. One is new one is old. For that reason these are probably going in the bin. New porsche ones are a ridiculous £250. Really Porsche? I think I'll make some rose jointed ones that are adjustable.
ARB. This looks crusty on the ends. Off for blasting and e-coating.
Although where the bushes pick up on it looks a little rough. Strange?
Talking of the ARB bushes, these are manufacture dated 03 so I guess original to the car. They look OK but I guess they're cheap enough to renew whilst here.
On to the coffin arms, which it said in the pre-sales report where just starting to delaminate around the bushes. They look in good nick to me. Anyone disagree? Someone has been kind enough in the past to add RSS bushes for the "tuning fork".
These pieces tie in the sub frame to the front of the floorpan. Going in the e-coat pile as a bit crusty.
Finally, after a little bit of track time at Donington, the front discs are starting to crack. I take it I don't need to worry about this tool much until the cracks are right across and join the holes?
Finally, hibernating on stilts with its mezger cousin!
Few questions, let's take it component by component...
This is an '05 with 31k miles on it. Most of the components look to be the items it left the factory with.
Springs, these seem to be standard H&R, starting to look a bit tired, think we'll just replace these...
These top hats look fancy. Standard?
Top mounts. 964 part number! They look in relatively reasonable nick. Should I just bother replacing these anyway
On to the dampers, which is why we are here in the first place. Can't actually find any bilstein markings on them. Hard to tell in the photos but the RH one seems to have more grease/oil on the tube than the LH.
ARB drop links. One is new one is old. For that reason these are probably going in the bin. New porsche ones are a ridiculous £250. Really Porsche? I think I'll make some rose jointed ones that are adjustable.
ARB. This looks crusty on the ends. Off for blasting and e-coating.
Although where the bushes pick up on it looks a little rough. Strange?
Talking of the ARB bushes, these are manufacture dated 03 so I guess original to the car. They look OK but I guess they're cheap enough to renew whilst here.
On to the coffin arms, which it said in the pre-sales report where just starting to delaminate around the bushes. They look in good nick to me. Anyone disagree? Someone has been kind enough in the past to add RSS bushes for the "tuning fork".
These pieces tie in the sub frame to the front of the floorpan. Going in the e-coat pile as a bit crusty.
Finally, after a little bit of track time at Donington, the front discs are starting to crack. I take it I don't need to worry about this tool much until the cracks are right across and join the holes?
Finally, hibernating on stilts with its mezger cousin!
Nice to see you have a full stripdown in hand. Just a few comments to start the ball rolling:-
The front struts wont have a Bilstein marking as they have a Bilstein insert inside them - At the bottom of the unit the insert is retained by a nut, when removed enables disassembly of the strut.
The top mounts are a monoball of bronze, if the they are not sloppy check that are not semi seized by "stiction". You should be be able to move them smoothly with a lever. A soak in oil can return their smooth action.
Its always worth getting the inserts re-shimmed and valved if you want to refresh the suspension. Bilstein UK do this.
Rather than paying an arm and leg for lower arms Hartech recon the wearing parts for a reasonable sum.
The front struts wont have a Bilstein marking as they have a Bilstein insert inside them - At the bottom of the unit the insert is retained by a nut, when removed enables disassembly of the strut.
The top mounts are a monoball of bronze, if the they are not sloppy check that are not semi seized by "stiction". You should be be able to move them smoothly with a lever. A soak in oil can return their smooth action.
Its always worth getting the inserts re-shimmed and valved if you want to refresh the suspension. Bilstein UK do this.
Rather than paying an arm and leg for lower arms Hartech recon the wearing parts for a reasonable sum.
I made some drop links with motorsport quality XM M10 rose joints from McGill. Porsche wanted £250 a side for the standard ones (and they look nothing special) and these are easily adjustable on the car so the tension can be removed from the rollbar during setup.
At £80 for the bits, inc the VAT and postage, bargain!
At £80 for the bits, inc the VAT and postage, bargain!
Pugley said:
Nice to see you have a full stripdown in hand. Just a few comments to start the ball rolling:-
The front struts wont have a Bilstein marking as they have a Bilstein insert inside them - At the bottom of the unit the insert is retained by a nut, when removed enables disassembly of the strut.
The top mounts are a monoball of bronze, if the they are not sloppy check that are not semi seized by "stiction". You should be be able to move them smoothly with a lever. A soak in oil can return their smooth action.
Its always worth getting the inserts re-shimmed and valved if you want to refresh the suspension. Bilstein UK do this.
Rather than paying an arm and leg for lower arms Hartech recon the wearing parts for a reasonable sum.
Rears definitely have Bilstein markings on them, can't remember if the fronts do.The front struts wont have a Bilstein marking as they have a Bilstein insert inside them - At the bottom of the unit the insert is retained by a nut, when removed enables disassembly of the strut.
The top mounts are a monoball of bronze, if the they are not sloppy check that are not semi seized by "stiction". You should be be able to move them smoothly with a lever. A soak in oil can return their smooth action.
Its always worth getting the inserts re-shimmed and valved if you want to refresh the suspension. Bilstein UK do this.
Rather than paying an arm and leg for lower arms Hartech recon the wearing parts for a reasonable sum.
OP, the spherical bearings in the top mounts can be purchased separately without replacing the whole top mount assembly if they're worn/noisy. PM me for details.
Well done on fabricating your own droplinks
I did the same using the turnbuckles from McGill and rose joints from a local bearing stockist , and even using very high quality rose joints I think the cost came out to less than £100 front and rear.
Even at 30k miles the Bilsteins will be toast, you'll notice a big difference in the ride and handling once they've been rebuilt AND fitted with new springs (the powder coating on the springs is notorious for failing btw)
The gold anodized part is indeed the standard top mount.
Should you need replacement spring seats/locking collars, they can be purchased from Bilstein UK, my guess is they're a generic part (and the same parts were used on the 993 cars) IIRC, if needed the anti roll bar brackets can be purchased off Bilstein UK too.
Slippydiff said:
Even at 30k miles the Bilsteins will be toast,
lol 30k miles now, when I say these cars need a rebuild and shocks at circa 60k every one goes mental.now you quote 1/2 the miles I ever have.
funny thing forums what happens 6 years later than when I post about refreshes.
that whole front end looks well used though makes you think what 80% people do drive about in day to day and think is great.
Porsche911R said:
that whole front end looks well used though makes you think what 80% people do drive about in day to day and think is great.
LOL you'll be telling me I need a 5k refresh next. Let's just remember this is a 14 year old car.Aside from the cosmetics which will be professionally recoated, and the dampers and the drop links which I am replacing, the main arm bushes and ball joints are in "as they would have left the factory". And that's the words of our race team tech director. A clean up is all that is required!
I'll be in for less than £500 and that includes the bill with Bilstein and new springs and sundries from the OPC.
The rear springs and dampers were done by a previous owner and I've had the back wheels off and bushings etc. all look in good condition so I'm leaving that alone, I'll get a second opinion from CoG when it goes there for setup.
Porsche911R said:
lol 30k miles now, when I say these cars need a rebuild and shocks at circa 60k every one goes mental.
now you quote 1/2 the miles I ever have.
funny thing forums what happens 6 years later than when I post about refreshes.
Wrong (again).now you quote 1/2 the miles I ever have.
funny thing forums what happens 6 years later than when I post about refreshes.
From 2015
And if you took the trouble to read my previous posts on the subject, you’ll see I maintained well before 2015 that the OE Bilsteins dampers will be toast by 20k miles.
Same old, same old with the majority of your posts, basically any excuse to have a pop and cause annoyance and irritation to others.
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