Buying a 996 Turbo as an investment? Good or Bad?
Discussion
Hi all,
First of all I will start, I am new to Porsche. I have loved them all my life and always hankered after a 964 911 Turbo in black. I had an opportunity a few years ago to px my Escort RS Cosworth for a 964 Turbo with a hole in the block but I chickened out. How I wish I didn't now.
Anyway, I moved on to M3s and found myself with a E36 M3 Evolution Imola Individual (1 of 50 made for the UK market) I bought this car as an investment and got the timing spot on. You can see where this is going now.
I still have the M3 and with house prices and leaseholds just putting me off going down that route, I am very very tempted to get myself into a 996 Turbo mainly as an investment but also as a petrol head.
The car would be stored in a carcoon for most of its life with me with very few miles going on the clock and will sit along side the M3.
I have some questions though, mainly looking for people who have recently purchased and what they looked for?
And any technical knowledge from the long time owners.
1: What is the best combo to go for, colours, gearbox, spec, age etc. I am thinking black on black, standard, decent service history with a manual gearbox as a base. Is there anything else that would really make the car that bit more special and easier to sell on when the time comes?
2: What breaks on these cars? I heard the engines sometime erupt but not sure if that was just internet hype like the vanos on the E36 M3 engines.
3: What sort of money are we looking at for basic maintenance, say an oil service at a Porsche specialists? and are there any good ones in the South West (Somerset/Dorset area)
4: Am I completely off my nut and is this a really bad idea? I have seen over the years 911 Turbos go from £25k to £100k in some cases.
5: What should I be realistically paying? I am not looking for a super low mile car (I could not afford one without selling the M3) I do not plan on getting finance but could get a small amount for the right car to top up my pot.
6: What kind of prices did we see these drop to at their lowest? I know they have started rising already, sure I seen them for around £25k at one point but looks more like £30k or more is the number to get you in something sub 100k. Also, what year was they are their lowest. I would like to try and gauge how much they have increased year on year to get a rough idea.
Guys and girls, thanks for your time and I appreciate any help you can offer.
Thanks
Mark
First of all I will start, I am new to Porsche. I have loved them all my life and always hankered after a 964 911 Turbo in black. I had an opportunity a few years ago to px my Escort RS Cosworth for a 964 Turbo with a hole in the block but I chickened out. How I wish I didn't now.
Anyway, I moved on to M3s and found myself with a E36 M3 Evolution Imola Individual (1 of 50 made for the UK market) I bought this car as an investment and got the timing spot on. You can see where this is going now.
I still have the M3 and with house prices and leaseholds just putting me off going down that route, I am very very tempted to get myself into a 996 Turbo mainly as an investment but also as a petrol head.
The car would be stored in a carcoon for most of its life with me with very few miles going on the clock and will sit along side the M3.
I have some questions though, mainly looking for people who have recently purchased and what they looked for?
And any technical knowledge from the long time owners.
1: What is the best combo to go for, colours, gearbox, spec, age etc. I am thinking black on black, standard, decent service history with a manual gearbox as a base. Is there anything else that would really make the car that bit more special and easier to sell on when the time comes?
2: What breaks on these cars? I heard the engines sometime erupt but not sure if that was just internet hype like the vanos on the E36 M3 engines.
3: What sort of money are we looking at for basic maintenance, say an oil service at a Porsche specialists? and are there any good ones in the South West (Somerset/Dorset area)
4: Am I completely off my nut and is this a really bad idea? I have seen over the years 911 Turbos go from £25k to £100k in some cases.
5: What should I be realistically paying? I am not looking for a super low mile car (I could not afford one without selling the M3) I do not plan on getting finance but could get a small amount for the right car to top up my pot.
6: What kind of prices did we see these drop to at their lowest? I know they have started rising already, sure I seen them for around £25k at one point but looks more like £30k or more is the number to get you in something sub 100k. Also, what year was they are their lowest. I would like to try and gauge how much they have increased year on year to get a rough idea.
Guys and girls, thanks for your time and I appreciate any help you can offer.
Thanks
Mark
Would you buy another E36 right now? If I was you I'd be selling that TBH
I think you're a bit late to the party on this one, you'd possibly be buying at the top of the top of the market, and the cars need maintenance & insurance, whether they are used or not, plus the lost opportunity cost of the capital
What with all the market uncertainty and an ever growing number of desirable GT3 and GT4 cars languishing on the market, I honestly can't see it being an investible asset whatsoever and you'd be depriving someone else the opportunity to drive it too
I think you're a bit late to the party on this one, you'd possibly be buying at the top of the top of the market, and the cars need maintenance & insurance, whether they are used or not, plus the lost opportunity cost of the capital
What with all the market uncertainty and an ever growing number of desirable GT3 and GT4 cars languishing on the market, I honestly can't see it being an investible asset whatsoever and you'd be depriving someone else the opportunity to drive it too
Ah yes, sorry I should of added. I wont be buying until the whole Brexit thing has played its hand.
And would I buy another E36, at the price I bought mine for, yes in a heart beat. I know the 996 T has already gone up slightly, but most 911 T's end up around the 80k mark if looked after. I currently insure my M3 all year round and tax when I want to use it. Insurance is sensible with an agreed value and I cannot see the 911 being much different as currently worth around the same kind of money. Obviously I will look into all of that though.
And would I buy another E36, at the price I bought mine for, yes in a heart beat. I know the 996 T has already gone up slightly, but most 911 T's end up around the 80k mark if looked after. I currently insure my M3 all year round and tax when I want to use it. Insurance is sensible with an agreed value and I cannot see the 911 being much different as currently worth around the same kind of money. Obviously I will look into all of that though.
mboon said:
Ah yes, sorry I should of added. I wont be buying until the whole Brexit thing has played its hand.
And would I buy another E36, at the price I bought mine for, yes in a heart beat. I know the 996 T has already gone up slightly, but most 911 T's end up around the 80k mark if looked after. I currently insure my M3 all year round and tax when I want to use it. Insurance is sensible with an agreed value and I cannot see the 911 being much different as currently worth around the same kind of money. Obviously I will look into all of that though.
I think he meant if you would buy an E36 at current prices …And would I buy another E36, at the price I bought mine for, yes in a heart beat. I know the 996 T has already gone up slightly, but most 911 T's end up around the 80k mark if looked after. I currently insure my M3 all year round and tax when I want to use it. Insurance is sensible with an agreed value and I cannot see the 911 being much different as currently worth around the same kind of money. Obviously I will look into all of that though.
In any case, I am also of the opinion that you missed the boat on that one (I think the high time for prices was sometime in 2016 and since then it has been a gradual decline - cars not selling, asking prices too ambitious etc).
I'd buy an unmodified 996 GT2 or a 996.1 GT3 CS / 996.2 RS as a long-term investment play, that might possibly make sense even at current values. It would have to be a 10 year plus play though imo
Good luck in any case (if you hardly use the E36, it might be indeed a good time to sell)
Hi All,
Just my 2p's worth, I'm sure you'll all agree prices have soften over the last 6 months.
To a point where getting in to a 996 Turbo is once within reach of most buyers within the £28-35k price range.
However, for those looking at an investment and having a little fun you have to look out for really special lower mileage models and dare I say Turbo S versions.
Must be Coupe, Manual and in a good colour combo.
I will echo the above though......there are better Porker investment cars but boy oh boy the Turbo is such an occasion and puts a huge grin on your face every time!
IceBoy
Just my 2p's worth, I'm sure you'll all agree prices have soften over the last 6 months.
To a point where getting in to a 996 Turbo is once within reach of most buyers within the £28-35k price range.
However, for those looking at an investment and having a little fun you have to look out for really special lower mileage models and dare I say Turbo S versions.
Must be Coupe, Manual and in a good colour combo.
I will echo the above though......there are better Porker investment cars but boy oh boy the Turbo is such an occasion and puts a huge grin on your face every time!
IceBoy
Brinyan said:
You get a lot of car for the money with a 996 Turbo.
That’s it though - don’t mess around buying one as an ‘investment’, because it’s not - it’s a liability that costs a few £’s (sometimes quite a few £’s) each year to keep in good running order.
This completely. Unless you can afford a few hundred grand for a zero mileage GT or classic then you’re gambling at the wrong time. A turbo is a fabulous car but it’s going to cost you more on upkeep each year than you’ll make in appreciation. These cars are built to be driven, not stored in a carcoon. Personally, I’m happy with the current downturn in prices. I no longer have to have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind about piling on the miles in my car. I can now simply enjoy driving it. That’s it though - don’t mess around buying one as an ‘investment’, because it’s not - it’s a liability that costs a few £’s (sometimes quite a few £’s) each year to keep in good running order.
The experience of my 996T is as follows:
Sold it 4 years ago in May this year having owned it for 4 1/2 years.
Bought for £36k, sold for £40.5k, but after about 2 years ownership it would have been worth around £25-28k.
A couple of years after selling it would have carried on up to mid to high forties.
However, I would say prices have now peaked, and softened slightly.
I would add that although never totting it up, I must have spent £10-12k on upkeep on it (doing around 5k miles pa).
IMO they will never be an investment in the mould of the air cooled turbo's, although the S model is more sought after. 996T's are to be driven rather than left in a garage in the hope their value will increase by any great amount. Buy one and enjoy it.
Sold it 4 years ago in May this year having owned it for 4 1/2 years.
Bought for £36k, sold for £40.5k, but after about 2 years ownership it would have been worth around £25-28k.
A couple of years after selling it would have carried on up to mid to high forties.
However, I would say prices have now peaked, and softened slightly.
I would add that although never totting it up, I must have spent £10-12k on upkeep on it (doing around 5k miles pa).
IMO they will never be an investment in the mould of the air cooled turbo's, although the S model is more sought after. 996T's are to be driven rather than left in a garage in the hope their value will increase by any great amount. Buy one and enjoy it.
boxsey said:
mboon said:
The car would be stored in a carcoon for most of its life with me with very few miles going on the clock and will sit along side the M3.
My answer would be bad.....it's bad (and sad) for a Porker to be put in a carcoon for most of it's life and hardly ever be used! 
Buy it to drive, no other reason.
mboon said:
Hi all,
1: What is the best combo to go for, colours, gearbox, spec, age etc. I am thinking black on black, standard, decent service history with a manual gearbox as a base. Is there anything else that would really make the car that bit more special and easier to sell on when the time comes?
2: What breaks on these cars? I heard the engines sometime erupt but not sure if that was just internet hype like the vanos on the E36 M3 engines.
3: What sort of money are we looking at for basic maintenance, say an oil service at a Porsche specialists? and are there any good ones in the South West (Somerset/Dorset area)
4: Am I completely off my nut and is this a really bad idea? I have seen over the years 911 Turbos go from £25k to £100k in some cases.
5: What should I be realistically paying? I am not looking for a super low mile car (I could not afford one without selling the M3) I do not plan on getting finance but could get a small amount for the right car to top up my pot.
6: What kind of prices did we see these drop to at their lowest? I know they have started rising already, sure I seen them for around £25k at one point but looks more like £30k or more is the number to get you in something sub 100k. Also, what year was they are their lowest. I would like to try and gauge how much they have increased year on year to get a rough idea.
From memory (I sold mine a while ago now): 1: What is the best combo to go for, colours, gearbox, spec, age etc. I am thinking black on black, standard, decent service history with a manual gearbox as a base. Is there anything else that would really make the car that bit more special and easier to sell on when the time comes?
2: What breaks on these cars? I heard the engines sometime erupt but not sure if that was just internet hype like the vanos on the E36 M3 engines.
3: What sort of money are we looking at for basic maintenance, say an oil service at a Porsche specialists? and are there any good ones in the South West (Somerset/Dorset area)
4: Am I completely off my nut and is this a really bad idea? I have seen over the years 911 Turbos go from £25k to £100k in some cases.
5: What should I be realistically paying? I am not looking for a super low mile car (I could not afford one without selling the M3) I do not plan on getting finance but could get a small amount for the right car to top up my pot.
6: What kind of prices did we see these drop to at their lowest? I know they have started rising already, sure I seen them for around £25k at one point but looks more like £30k or more is the number to get you in something sub 100k. Also, what year was they are their lowest. I would like to try and gauge how much they have increased year on year to get a rough idea.
1. Silver or black or dark grey exterior. Black interior. Avoid savannah leather and avoid ruffled seats. Manual is best for protecting your money. I think there was a minor interior facelift post 2002. Turbo S is premium purchase but always seemed to hold its value better than the non-S. I'd go for the lowest mileage 2004 or 2005 S with a main dealer service history and an inspection if I was buying to invest.
2. Rads are basically a consumable. They get eaten by stones. Hydraulic rams on the rear spoiler. There are some other things that I cna't recall now, but generally they are well built durable cars.
3. Dunno about your location. Servicing wasn't cheap by absolute standards but wasn't eye watering either. When bits need to be replaced, they tend to be expensive.
4. It's an OK idea. I bought mine for 34, sold it for 32, and had I held it for another couple of years I could have sold it for close to 40. They soften from time to time then come into fashion and take off again. A low mileage well maintained good example should do well. But (a) they're a car that prefers to be driven regularly and (b) if you're "investing" in a car, you might want to think about what other cars you could get into for your money.
5. Dunno. Haven't looked at the market for a while. But as I have said if you're buying it to make money reconsider the mileage.
6. The ratty ones did fall to 25k at one point. I think I had mine 2012-2014. That's when they were low. Mine was a tip cab non-S, silver & black, just over 50k miles.
mr pg said:
Bought for £36k, sold for £40.5k, but after about 2 years ownership it would have been worth around £25-28k.
A couple of years after selling it would have carried on up to mid to high forties.
However, I would say prices have now peaked, and softened slightly.
I would add that although never totting it up, I must have spent £10-12k on upkeep on it (doing around 5k miles pa).
This, although softened a fair deal not slightlyA couple of years after selling it would have carried on up to mid to high forties.
However, I would say prices have now peaked, and softened slightly.
I would add that although never totting it up, I must have spent £10-12k on upkeep on it (doing around 5k miles pa).
Despite pg doing pretty well on buy/sell prices he spent way more on upkeep (which is not cheap on these cars)
Please buy a different car and cocoon it, hopefully something no enthusiast will miss seeing
Usual 911 formula:
- Manual
- Coupe
- Silver or grey (black it PITA to clean)
- Black leather interior
- Sports seats only for skinny.
(Comfort better for broad shoulders)
-S or X50 are premium
Check:
- Rear spoiler operation and struts (£1,500 job)
- Ideally unmodified or modified by specialist
- Rads
- Check pipework
- Check boosting correctly
- Check rev range
Sweet spot £35-50k.
Great balance of balistically quick, quite raw and devastaking wet weather performance.
- Manual
- Coupe
- Silver or grey (black it PITA to clean)
- Black leather interior
- Sports seats only for skinny.
(Comfort better for broad shoulders)
-S or X50 are premium
Check:
- Rear spoiler operation and struts (£1,500 job)
- Ideally unmodified or modified by specialist
- Rads
- Check pipework
- Check boosting correctly
- Check rev range
Sweet spot £35-50k.
Great balance of balistically quick, quite raw and devastaking wet weather performance.
But cliched but maybe look at gold? At times of instability it’s ever popular. You wouldn’t want money in GBP or UK property right now, and you might get de-bagged if you move into Euro and the current debacle is cancelled. Dollars are uncertain as Putins man in the WH flails around against both China and his allies.
How about Aaron Banks magic diamond mine?
How about Aaron Banks magic diamond mine?
My 2ps worth....I think there is very little chance you will make substantial gains buying a 996 Turbo as an investment, unless you can fall on a truly unique example with ultra low mileage, where you can stick your chest out when its time to sell knowing you have the very best, lowest mileage car there is, then its a waiting game, for the right collector who will pay your price.
The market has definitely softened. I traded my 2005 Turbo S in November for £48k to an official Porsche dealer. Independents felt they’d probably return me 50k from SOR, retailing for around 55k after a bumper respray and warranty costs, so it was a no brainer to trade it. A year or two ago it would have been worth at least 10-15% more.
My car was black/black, manual, and one of the last 996s ever built in July 2005. However it had almost 80k on the clock, so not that interesting for a collector - they’d be looking at the Ss with super low mileage at places like JZM for £20k more. What’s key is that although I only paid £35k back in 2012, in the 25k miles I drove, I spent about £15k in maintenance and servicing (albeit a few k of that was a nice sports exhaust) to keep it in top mechanical condition. My point is that values have gone up, but for anything other than museum mileage cars, the extra value should probably have been spent on oily bits to keep the car driving the way Porsche intended.
My profile shows the major servicing costs and what I spent them on. None of those things were out of the ordinary for a 996t of similar age and mileage.
In short, I wouldn’t buy a 996 turbo now as a pure investment, but it would be a good time to pick up a well maintained car to actually drive!
My car was black/black, manual, and one of the last 996s ever built in July 2005. However it had almost 80k on the clock, so not that interesting for a collector - they’d be looking at the Ss with super low mileage at places like JZM for £20k more. What’s key is that although I only paid £35k back in 2012, in the 25k miles I drove, I spent about £15k in maintenance and servicing (albeit a few k of that was a nice sports exhaust) to keep it in top mechanical condition. My point is that values have gone up, but for anything other than museum mileage cars, the extra value should probably have been spent on oily bits to keep the car driving the way Porsche intended.
My profile shows the major servicing costs and what I spent them on. None of those things were out of the ordinary for a 996t of similar age and mileage.
In short, I wouldn’t buy a 996 turbo now as a pure investment, but it would be a good time to pick up a well maintained car to actually drive!
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