997.2 - everyday car

[M5Sime]

Hi - I am now fortunate enough to be looking to realise a long dream of mine and own a 911.. I have read plenty over the years, drooled at plenty, driven a 991.1 at Silverstone 5 years ago.

I am not really in a position to garage my car, so it needs to live outside. I have a 58 plate 635D that devours motorways, but is rather dull. As it is worth not that much these days I was thinking to keep both.. Anyone have an opinion on:

1. Sweet spot in the range - I need to drive PDK vs Manual - I see a lot of love for the 997.2 GTS but at the higher end of pricing. I love the C4S look, but wonder whether I really need AWD.

2. Everyday - my new porker probably has to live outside.. Possibly a car cover.. but perhaps just as my other cars have.. I see plenty on side streets in London, so some live these lives.. Any major concerns? If I sell the Beemer and have the one car - any concerns?

Bit of new info for me was from a visit to a Porsche specialist near me. I will not name them, very nice chap - lots of them.. When asked about the engine 'issues' - he said they are all solid - its the owners that are not.. Many do not fill up with a litre of oil every 1k miles (as the handbook apparently states) and this is the root cause of the issues.. My E39 M5 has similar consumption.. Was always filling it with the best...

Thanks for reading!

Cheers

Simon

[WindyM]

I'd recommend a 997.2 C4S as a daily. I daily-drove a 997.2 T4S (Targa) and it was perfect. If you do a lot of miles, you'll take a hit if you want to get out after a couple of years, but you won't regret it. AWD gives you better traction off the line and better stability at speed and a bit more weight up front. You can also get on the power earlier on the exit of a wet roundabout for example (I'm comparing with my current 997.1 GT3!). My engine was reliable but I did have an O2 sensor fail (around 40k miles) and the valve lift vacuum pump failed at 60k miles - both replaced under extended warranty (recommended too). Good luck with the search!

[M5Sime]

Hi - thank you! I won’t be doing a lot of miles.. the car will need to sit outside as well.. any issues foreseen with that? Other than passers by seeing on my drive I guess.. I really like the look of the 991 Targa, and was wondering about the 997. Any weight penalty high up with all that glass?

[icekay]

I have no garage or driveway so unfortunately mine is parked on the street in London. Knock on wood it's been mostly fine aside from the couple of times someone has scraped/dented it, and it being London (i.e. any big city) and the 21st century, you can't really expect them to own up and leave a note.
Also, private parking is extortionate around here, to an extent that my total yearly maintenance cost to date is lower than renting a space. Insurance will hopefully be there if something worse happens.

Mine is PDK, first auto I've owned and unusually for me, it stays in auto 95% of the time - it is very good. Manual mode isn't ever going to be quite like driving an actual manual, mostly because the PDK overrides gears in certain situations. You should really try both for a decent length test drive.

I got the GTS as I had the budget and nearly all are very well specced (a lot of the toys come standard), but to be quite honest, I think I could have saved myself some serious cash and enjoyed a 4S just as much. I specifically like the wider rear track of the 4 but don't think you would find traction an issue in the 2.

I wanted a Cabriolet but nearly bought a Targa 4S, however a specialist told me that not many people can fix roof issues if you have any, and with the roof open rear visibility isn't great. They are a bit top heavy for obvious reasons too. That said the rear hatch is great!

The one thing I will say is that mine does feel heavy when braking / cornering so if you care about it feeling nimble I would definitely recommend considering a 2S coupe.

[g7jhp]

Sweet spot in all 911 models is always:

- Naturally aspirated (non turbo)
- Manual
- 2wd
- Coupe

So in the 997 you have:

- 997 C2 (3.6 DFI non-S, most affordable)
- 997 C2S (3.8 DFI + bigger brakes)
- 997 GTS (like C2S but newer)
- 997 GT3 (hardcore with mezger engine)

You don't need AWD as a daily, 2WD is fine the newer 911s aren't tail happy and the engine weight on the rear axel gives plenty of traction.

I'd pick a 997.2 C2S for overall value with the larger engine. The 997.2 GTS is a more polished package put comes at a premium. Some rave about the 997 C2 which is a great option.

You can't really go wrong with any. The issue will be finding the right car.

Good luck.

[M5Sime]

icekay said:

I have no garage or driveway so unfortunately mine is parked on the street in London. Knock on wood it's been mostly fine aside from the couple of times someone has scraped/dented it, and it being London (i.e. any big city) and the 21st century, you can't really expect them to own up and leave a note.
Also, private parking is extortionate around here, to an extent that my total yearly maintenance cost to date is lower than renting a space. Insurance will hopefully be there if something worse happens.

Mine is PDK, first auto I've owned and unusually for me, it stays in auto 95% of the time - it is very good. Manual mode isn't ever going to be quite like driving an actual manual, mostly because the PDK overrides gears in certain situations. You should really try both for a decent length test drive.

I got the GTS as I had the budget and nearly all are very well specced (a lot of the toys come standard), but to be quite honest, I think I could have saved myself some serious cash and enjoyed a 4S just as much. I specifically like the wider rear track of the 4 but don't think you would find traction an issue in the 2.

I wanted a Cabriolet but nearly bought a Targa 4S, however a specialist told me that not many people can fix roof issues if you have any, and with the roof open rear visibility isn't great. They are a bit top heavy for obvious reasons too. That said the rear hatch is great!

The one thing I will say is that mine does feel heavy when braking / cornering so if you care about it feeling nimble I would definitely recommend considering a 2S coupe.

Hi - thank you so much - really covered a lot of interest points for me! I am fascinated about the C4 vs C2 comment on feeling heavy. The next poster suggested a C2S is fine. I really like the look of the C4S with the wider rear and light/colour insert.. But would be happy with RWD

[M5Sime]

g7jhp said:

You don't need AWD as a daily, 2WD is fine the newer 911s aren't tail happy and the engine weight on the rear axel gives plenty of traction.

I'd pick a 997.2 C2S for overall value with the larger engine. The 997.2 GTS is a more polished package put comes at a premium. Some rave about the 997 C2 which is a great option.

Good luck.

Hi - thank you.. Great overview.. I agree with you on the C2S as my likely focus.. The only aspect that draws me to the C4S is the look vs the traction, but then I have not driven a 997 in either guise.. My BMW's (E39 M5, E34 M5 and remapped 635D with enormous torque) have all been fine with traction, although the 635D could do with an LSD for powering out of tighter corners)..

[flying scotsman]

I have covered 23000 miles in my 997 GTS cab as a daily driver in the last 2 years with zero issues. Car is serviced each year and returns anywhere between 24 and 34 average mpg to a tank depending on how much motorway mileage I do. Cruise control on at 70mph will happily do 37 mpg. I have the H&S bypass pipes which howls nicely.
Considering the mileage, depreciation is negligble and I have two booster seats in the back for my 5 & 8 year old so it does the school run as well.
I can’t see me replacing it as it is probably worth £45-50k now as it has 67k miles and a newer 991 or 992 would probably cost £80-£90k which I couldn’t justify.

Fully recommend the 997 and even in Rwd spec traction is rarely an issue.

[M5Sime]

Thank you ! Really appreciate the feedback. I had specific feedback from a specialist that so many of the issues of engines is all around drivers not being responsible for the oil consumption and regular top ups.. have you needed to do this?

[icekay]

Not really read about / heard of many issues with the DFI engines, and mine uses no oil at all* even though I regularly check. What I do hear often is that not letting the engine oil warm up before you press on is likely to come back to bite you, though this is common sense with any engine really!

(*) Oil reading on these is electronic so small oil use won't show.

[flying scotsman]

I have not topped up the oil but have had an oil change each year as opposed to the porsche service schedule of every 2 years. I also let the engine warm up which takes quite a long time- 10 minutes or so.
Not heard of any oil issues on the gen 2....

[So]

g7jhp said:

Sweet spot in all 911 models is always:

- Naturally aspirated (non turbo)
- Manual
- 2wd
- Coupe

So in the 997 you have:

- 997 C2 (3.6 DFI non-S, most affordable)
- 997 C2S (3.8 DFI + bigger brakes)
- 997 GTS (like C2S but newer)
- 997 GT3 (hardcore with mezger engine)

In your opinion.

I've had manual and PDK and of that list I would choose the GTS PDK,.

[Porsche911R]

So said:

In your opinion.

I've had manual and PDK and of that list I would choose the GTS PDK,.

out dated, and loads for sale, while you would choose the PDK from that era, 90% people would not now.
hence the 28PDK cars for sale and 2 manuals.

[Roundm]

I had a 997.1 C2S as a daily for 18months, only time I managed to spin the rears was in snow or when booting hard from a wet corner - I wouldn't suggest in normal use you would ever run out of traction. I now have a 997tt.1.5 - which is 4wd and much more grown up (the C2S had sports exhaust and sounded great in tunnels! - the turbo has as well and..... needs fewer baffles!), it's a guided (I hope) missile, but more to the point I've managed to unstick the tyres on this as well - same idea, too much welly on a tight wet corner!.

I know the cars are quite different, they were 4 years different in age and aimed at different market - the turbo is the quieter car on a run, The C2S felt very slightly more alive - however this could be down to different tracking and alignment as when I got the turbo it was a nightmare and on checking I found the wheels pointing in random, different directions! now they all point in the same direction it's much more direct, still alive, but solidly planted. My point here is a good setup probably makes as much difference as anything.

you will be impressed by whatever you drive - you won't get to know it until a few thousand miles later and if you are like me your appreciation (of both/either) will grow in that time. Pick the one that's the right colour and you like the look of - make sure it's not a wreck (check it yourself if you have the knowledge, get sensible professionals to check it for you as well), buy it and enjoy.

oh and both mine live outside on the drive - garage isn't long enough to get them into! The only things that rust are the brake disks and the exhaust bolts (and the tandem pump cover on the C2S before anyone says it)

and for my money, 997.1 vs 997.2 - the PCM is nicer in the new one, if they are manual - then I doubt you could tell them apart from a performance perspective unless you are on a track (i.e. don't worry about the 'extra' 30hp, the .1 has more midrange torque and 355HP is plenty in a 1250kg car!). As to reliability, I'd prefer a more used one, the highest bills I've seen have been on low mileage garage queens.

enjoy looking though that's half the fun!

[So]

Porsche911R said:

So said:

In your opinion.

I've had manual and PDK and of that list I would choose the GTS PDK,.

out dated, and loads for sale, while you would choose the PDK from that era, 90% people would not now.
hence the 28PDK cars for sale and 2 manuals.

The the lack of 7GTSs in the Porsche network suggests that you may have got your market assessment wrong. You cannot make too many judgements based upon what is in the non-Porsche market and possibly over priced IMHO.

I've had later 911s and gone back to the 997 and whilst the 'box is slower, the car slower and the interior more dated (obv.) than on later cars I still prefer the way the 997 drives.

[M5Sime]

flying scotsman said:

I have not topped up the oil but have had an oil change each year as opposed to the porsche service schedule of every 2 years. I also let the engine warm up which takes quite a long time- 10 minutes or so.
Not heard of any oil issues on the gen 2....

Thanks! Perhaps this is Gen1 car topic?

[M5Sime]

Porsche911R said:

out dated, and loads for sale, while you would choose the PDK from that era, 90% people would not now.
hence the 28PDK cars for sale and 2 manuals.

Thank you.. I have read that some upgrade the paddles.. Is it an interface e issue or speed of the box (which I have also read reviews stating it is a little slow). I am on my first ever Auto (slush box) in a Torque monster BMW.. hardly worth using the paddles I have found.. I always enjoyed manuals (less so in my E39 M5 where first gear was too low really for smooth day to day driving..

Best
S

[M5Sime]

Roundm said:

I had a 997.1 C2S as a daily for 18months, only time I managed to spin the rears was in snow or when booting hard from a wet corner - I wouldn't suggest in normal use you would ever run out of traction. I now have a 997tt.1.5 - which is 4wd and much more grown up (the C2S had sports exhaust and sounded great in tunnels! - the turbo has as well and..... needs fewer baffles!), it's a guided (I hope) missile, but more to the point I've managed to unstick the tyres on this as well - same idea, too much welly on a tight wet corner!.

I know the cars are quite different, they were 4 years different in age and aimed at different market - the turbo is the quieter car on a run, The C2S felt very slightly more alive - however this could be down to different tracking and alignment as when I got the turbo it was a nightmare and on checking I found the wheels pointing in random, different directions! now they all point in the same direction it's much more direct, still alive, but solidly planted. My point here is a good setup probably makes as much difference as anything.

you will be impressed by whatever you drive - you won't get to know it until a few thousand miles later and if you are like me your appreciation (of both/either) will grow in that time. Pick the one that's the right colour and you like the look of - make sure it's not a wreck (check it yourself if you have the knowledge, get sensible professionals to check it for you as well), buy it and enjoy.

oh and both mine live outside on the drive - garage isn't long enough to get them into! The only things that rust are the brake disks and the exhaust bolts (and the tandem pump cover on the C2S before anyone says it)

and for my money, 997.1 vs 997.2 - the PCM is nicer in the new one, if they are manual - then I doubt you could tell them apart from a performance perspective unless you are on a track (i.e. don't worry about the 'extra' 30hp, the .1 has more midrange torque and 355HP is plenty in a 1250kg car!). As to reliability, I'd prefer a more used one, the highest bills I've seen have been on low mileage garage queens.

enjoy looking though that's half the fun!

Thank you - great advice and really appreciate you taking the time.. I was especially keen to hear about corrosion issues with living outside.. I was thinking they cannot be that bad as the 'VW Golf' of London seems to be the 911.. So many of them parked on the streets outside million pound apartments etc.

[WindyM]

M5Sime said:

was wondering about the 997. Any weight penalty high up with all that glass?

I can't pretend a 70kg glass roof doesn't come without a weight penalty, but you really don't feel it, even on a track day. I've got photos of my car cornering hard on circuits and it's as flat as any C2S. I believe Porsche did adjust the Targa's suspension to compensate. It makes for a practical car with the rear opening hatch too! (Mine was PDK btw.)

[GT4RS]

Highly recommend a 997.2s as a everyday car, ran one for a number of years.

Lovely car