Cayman GTS to 997 GT3?

[Jazzer]

Evening all!

I have loved my time with a Cayman GTS and I’m now wondering what next, if anything.

The car will be for weekends, perhaps longer drives to Scotland or Europe.

I’ve not driven a GT3 yet, but I will almost certainly have one sooner or later.

Is the GTS a better road car, with the GT3 being the ultimate track day monster?

The GTS is really special, so it will take a lot for me to move on from it.....I’d hate to sell it, then regret it!

Any thoughts? Have any of you made this change?

Really curious!!

[Joehow]

Hey dude.

Ive had a
981 GTS
981spyder
996 GT3

My dad owns a 997.2 GT3 so quite the experience across the platforms.

The Cayman GTS is an amazing car it really is but proper GT porsches are something else. Im of the opinion they should be used on track, but a 997 GT3 can be a perfectly nice road car.

So yeah do it!

[Dblue]

a 997 GT3 is a far more visceral thing to drive than a regular Cayman - even an excellent one like the GTS

You'll find there's a layer of insulation from what's going on removed, less refined perhaps but the connection to the car is turned right up.
The engine revs 1000rpm higher , there's more oomph of course and its firmer
And its a 911 so it drives with a different balance that's obvious most of the time. t'll tend to understeer naturally unless you drive around it though part of the fun is being able to set it up to suit yourself. For me there's no more satisfying car to drive.

[Porsche911R]

I think the GTS makes a better road car, so depends what you want.

The GTS mods to 380bhp and you can fit GT3 lca and some cup 2's be a great thing.

If you like midengine cars mod what you have., it will lap faster than. 997 GT3 also with those mods :-) if it’s a PDK GTS you have.

GT3 need space to wind up, they are not for every one.

Only you know what you want but be careful on GT test drives as they can draw you in and then when you live with them just be frustrating.

how about a GT4 or a 997.2 GTS or a 570s or a 991 GTs or a Exige sport 410.

[Jazzer]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

I love track driving, but not so much in my own cars.

I know what you mean about the frustration of road driving in some cars, the GT3 would cause me my licence, perhaps freedom, if I held on to third on a public road.

I will see if I can drive one and go from there.

The hard suspension won’t bother me, just the degree of fun I can reasonably have on a public road. It’s this aspect that makes the GTS such a great car.

[ellroy]

I’ve gone from 981GTS to 991GTS, like you a couple of days on track, but mainly roads and suspect that what I’ve got is probably the right answer. That said I’d love a GT3 at some point, but it has to ‘work’.

Good luck with your decision.

[Jazzer]

And how does the 991 compare with the Cayman?

[NBTBRV8]

I went the other way, 997.2 GT3 to Cayman GTS. The GTS was an easier car to drive fast and you got a similar thrill at lower speeds. The GT3 only gave me the same thrill once you were on it. The GT3 did sound much better when revving it too. I did find though that if you got your breaking wrong in the Cayman the back would come around mid corner, I didn't experience this with the GT3.

Both were dailies for me.

[ellroy]

Jazzer said:

And how does the 991 compare with the Cayman?

Bigger(!), and much quicker on the right tarmac, does have a different feel compared to the 981, the way you drive it has to be a little different to get the most from it. I’m sure as you’d expect.

On track a damn site faster, but then again is a step up in terms of power, on roads depends on the road, as you’d imagine. In many cases, tight and twisty stuff, not a huge noticeable difference in terms of pace for sure.

I think like many if you’ve always wanted a 911 it’s an itch to scratch and that doesn’t go away easily.

[Jazzer]

The size of the 991 is a thing, isn’t it?

I could easily live with it, but much prefer the looks and dimensions of the 997.

I can feel a GT3 coming, I’m on that slippery slope again!!

[baronbennyt]

I’ve been lucky enough to have owned: 987 Boxster S, Cayman R, Cayman GT4, 981 Boxster Spyder, 997.1 GT3RS, and 997 GT2. I currently drive a 991.1 GT3RS.

I do about 10 track days a year, including the Nurburgring and Spa-Francorchamps. But I also do regular road trips in the UK, and Europe such as an annual pilgrimage to Le Mans.

Which car have I enjoyed most...?

In terms of sheer go-kart like balance, delicate adjustability and pound-for-pound enjoyment: the Cayman R! It was quick but not fast enough that you couldn’t use most, if not all of its performance on a regular basis (I should, though, disclose it was expertly prepared by Paragon Porsche with geo, big brake kit, cup tyres etc). I would imagine a GTS provides a similar driving experience.

In terms of outright on-track brilliance, on-road presence and “specialness” then the 997.1 GT3RS wins hands down. But, it was tiring to drive long distances on the road; tyre noise being the biggest culprit. The GT4 was awesome, but I found its gearing too long.

So, my conclusion: modify your GTS with some choice but subtle components to take it to the next level, whilst keeping its day-to-day usability, or take the leap and get yourself a 997 GT3. Just be warned though, it will be raw and far less refined when compared to your GTS. However, if you crave that feeling and an extra level of “special” including a dynamite motorsport derived engine, you can’t go wrong with a GT3. It’s the real deal!

One is sports/gt the other is sports/track.

[Dblue]

Jazzer said:

The size of the 991 is a thing, isn’t it?

I could easily live with it, but much prefer the looks and dimensions of the 997.

I can feel a GT3 coming, I’m on that slippery slope again!!

I would heartily recommend that choice - I couldn't honestly recommend the 997 GT3 against several others IF it was a daily you were after but its an absolute modern classic in the making . In years to come I reckon that hindsight will see it become revered as the high water mark in Porsche GT cars.

For a weekend/special trip/track day car its fantastic. For me it absolutely does feel special at lower speeds, the way it moves and steers, the sense of occasion is palpable . And I can't agree with the comments about its gearing . The mezger revs to 8500rpm so 3rd takes you to 3 figure speeds but keeping it above 5k on the road is fine and god it makes a great noise.

997 still feels like a rear engined car which takes a little getting use too , light front end and all

Its also usefully compact , just the right size IMV

And if you want to mod it there's lots more you can do than with a regular model,

[GT4RS]

What about a new 718 gt4 when it lands, at least if you get a build slot you get to build it to your specification?

[Jazzer]

The GTS with the GT3 engine would be some machine. The mid-engine handling and balance is sublime, I just need more power. I came very close to buying a GT4, but felt disappointed with the engine compared to the GTS....ruff!
The long gearing was the real issue though, it really got in the way of my enjoyment. My heart says 997 GT3, my head says I already have the best Porsche road car tucked up (under its blanket) in my garage!!

[Porsche911R]

Jazzer said:

The GTS with the GT3 engine would be some machine. The mid-engine handling and balance is sublime, I just need more power. I came very close to buying a GT4, but felt disappointed with the engine compared to the GTS....ruff!
The long gearing was the real issue though, it really got in the way of my enjoyment. My heart says 997 GT3, my head says I already have the best Porsche road car tucked up (under its blanket) in my garage!!

if you did not like the GT4 gearing you won't like any 997 GT3 imo. in fact imo they are worse for the road than the GT4 in that respect.

I now run a 991.1 GTS most of the time (due to the x51 3.8 430 lump) as the engine is amazeballs. but still have the GT3 and Spyder also. all 3 very different.

imo as the Cayman GTS is so rare get a 380 BHP power kit on it, some GT3 LCA, geo and some proper tyres.

£11k for those 3 things and what a car you would have.

[TDT]

Jazzer said:

The GTS with the GT3 engine would be some machine. The mid-engine handling and balance is sublime, I just need more power. I came very close to buying a GT4, but felt disappointed with the engine compared to the GTS....ruff!
The long gearing was the real issue though, it really got in the way of my enjoyment. My heart says 997 GT3, my head says I already have the best Porsche road car tucked up (under its blanket) in my garage!!

Cayman GT4 has the same ratios as a Cayman GTS Manual - but with more power and torque - so gearing is LESS of an issue on the GT4 vs Manual Cayman GTS.

Of course if you're talking about PDK - that's completely different. Cayman GTS with PDK is a weapon. I loved mine.
Was thinking about doing what 'D suggested with mine (380hp upgrade, 350mm Brake upgrade all-around, GT3 LCA, Rear Toe Links and Tyres) but i wasn't sure that PDK was rated for that power, and really wanted to get back into a manual and something with a bit more edge - boxes which a GT4 or Spyder would have ticked for me at the time.

Edited by TDT on Wednesday 29th May 11:03

[Joehow]

Porsche911R said:

if you did not like the GT4 gearing you won't like any 997 GT3 imo. in fact imo they are worse for the road than the GT4 in that respect.

I now run a 991.1 GTS most of the time (due to the x51 3.8 430 lump) as the engine is amazeballs. but still have the GT3 and Spyder also. all 3 very different.

imo as the Cayman GTS is so rare get a 380 BHP power kit on it, some GT3 LCA, geo and some proper tyres.

£11k for those 3 things and what a car you would have.

I disagree with the gearing on the gt3. Yes it is still long but the engine is more exciting to use I think. Yes with upgrades you can sort the gt4 but OP doesnt seem that way inclined.

The 996 GT3 is still the most fun if occasionally frustrating road come track car ive had. The mk2 Clubsport 997 the old man has is perfectly comfortable for cruising yet is hugely entertaining at any speed.

My GTS was very good but i sold it as when something is easier to use than my Lupo it loses that mystique i think sportscars should have.

A 997 GT3 is a wonderful thing, third gear is immense and the pedal weighting is beautiful.

[Porsche911R]

Joehow said:

I disagree with the gearing on the gt3. Yes it is still long but the engine is more exciting to use I think. Yes with upgrades you can sort the gt4 but OP doesnt seem that way inclined.

The 996 GT3 is still the most fun if occasionally frustrating road come track car ive had. The mk2 Clubsport 997 the old man has is perfectly comfortable for cruising yet is hugely entertaining at any speed.

My GTS was very good but i sold it as when something is easier to use than my Lupo it loses that mystique i think sportscars should have.

A 997 GT3 is a wonderful thing, third gear is immense and the pedal weighting is beautiful.

I know a lot disagree but the older GT3 are not fast cars, so to wind them up NEEDS space, and hence it's very rare to get them in the sweet spot in 3rd I found, the roads were not long enough before the next bend, So I hated the gt3 as a road car. for me it was, here we go, here we, go here we go, brake repeat ! and making the engine sing in 3rd was too rare to excite.

So you say 3rd gear is nice in a 997 GT3 but at red line that's circa 120mph and a long road. B roads really don't offer the space to do that, that's just a fact of the UK roads and bends. Unless you like Roman roads or A roads the older GT3 sucked really as a B road fun car ;-).

It is what it is and the GT4 was the same, to fast to be fun at legal speeds but too slow to get though the gears in the space a UK B road provides between bends.

My cars more fun as it has 500bhp and a ton of torque so you get though the gears, the down side is the speeds you now get too, so no win win imo.

better off in a Cayman R for B road use if you want to keep it circa 85 mph, the 996/997GT3 at 85 Mph in 3rd was a dog imo, you are out of 2nd and in no mans land in 3rd really.

I have thought about a 997.2 GT3 with a short final drive, but it's a risk to buy and then spend £6k on and very few people do it so not easy to try some ones car, then hard to sell as every one wants a untouched oem garage queen car at £120k

PDK GTS with 380 BHP would be pretty special for B road use. if the OP has a manual then get a GT4 and up that to 430bhp see if the extra BHP offsets the lazy nature of the GT4.

I gave up in the end hence the 991.1 GTS, and I keep the GT3 for Sundays only now.

for a road car I cannot see why people choose a GT4 at overs with that engine/gearing over a list price 991.1 GTS of £120k which you can buy now cheaper than a 4 year old GT4 !
I liked my GT4 speced for me new at List as it was £64k after all + options so a steel, but not at overs, vs a 991.1 GTS unless you want to visit a lot of track days. saying that with a few tweaks A 991.1 GTS would be great on track if you only wanted to do a few and for me the engine alone was worth the entry fee vs GT4's at the same price.

I might put my GT3 wheels and tyres on my GTS when my BBS wheels arrive for the GT3 see how it feels on cups.

I still think for a road car the Cayman R takes some beating if you don't care about having something older and slower if you tracked it.

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 29th May 11:39

[Joehow]

Whilst your logic is correct i think it lacks emotion.

Call me old fashioned but the GT3 feeling and response and noise is a joy to be a part of. GTS 991.1 still a great car but in my personal view not as much as nice a 'thing'

For the same reason i love my 205 gti its fundamentally slower than a boggo Dacia Duster in all likelihood but as a thing its a wonderful tactile thing to be involved with.

Although only 31 im one of those sad gits that needs a drive to be an involving experience. I think GT3s 996 /997 do that brilliantly so their faults can be excused a bit. Where as the more vanilla porsches dont have as much of that feeling.

In a 'poor mans world' its why id take a Cayman R over a 981 GTS having owned both, the cayman R just feels that bit more organic and less 'car' like.

Finally i do track my cars so i am probably more forgiving of the road frustrations you call out.

So whilst im trundling through a village in a GT3 its filled with the memories its given me at Spa, Angelsey, Snetterton etc. My Cayman R is the same now.

I again would stress this is personal opinion and not objective in anyway!

[Dr S]

Running a 7.2 GT3 as daily. I love the directness and lack of slack. It makes every trip an event for me. Would I love a shorter final drive? Yes, any day of the week. That's also why I prefer the gearing in my 7.2 RS. But the 3 is for me the perfect daily plus weekend car