996GT3 Gen 1 or Gen 2 for £60K...
Discussion
I can buy either of these cars for £60K with the Clubsport/Buckets..My thinking is at that money they represent a nice balance between a modern enough Porsche for reliability and raw enough for driving thrills..They'll also make an affordable and fun track car as long as they've been properly set up by Centre gravity or the likes..
Thoughts and guidance from members with experience of both would be very appreciated.As much as i hate to admit it the money side is very important to a tight-fisted git like myself.
Thoughts and guidance from members with experience of both would be very appreciated.As much as i hate to admit it the money side is very important to a tight-fisted git like myself.
I paid that amount 2 years ago for my 06 GT3 2 previous owners 27k miles full service history (imo the best colour) and in the present climate its not gone up in value. But I bought it as a long term investment and in a few years when all new cars are hybrids and electric it will be worth keeping it. I think a later MK2 is the better car to drive and a better investment but that's just me personally.
Kevin-sz0nv said:
I paid that amount 2 years ago for my 06 GT3 2 previous owners 27k miles full service history (imo the best colour) and in the present climate its not gone up in value.
IIRC you said £62/3k for yours? Although they have not ‘gone up in value’, you wouldn’t be able find a low mileage one like yours for the same money, in similar spec and bright/striking colour now (from dealer, though you might get lucky privately if you’re very patient).OP, I can’t remember a Clubsport being sold for less than £70k in the last two+ years, so you’ll be looking at Comfort with buckets and Tequipment cage. I have not driven a Mk1, but I did a lot of homework RE 996 and bought a Mk2. Having said that if a Zanzibar Mk1 was available for the same price at the time I was looking to buy a 6GT3, it’d be a very difficult head vs heart decision.
Porsche911R said:
A real mk1 CS would be nice, not the pretend ones which say CS pack.
They will go up also imo but more than £60k to get in one.
You really should drive my Spyder.
I have fairly recently bought a mk1 proper CS to match my 968 CS They will go up also imo but more than £60k to get in one.
You really should drive my Spyder.
Actually I didn't specifically search out the same colour but I think it does look pretty smart.
This one has a Manthey 400 upgrade by JZM, and set up pretty much for the track, will be heading to Silverstone after a visit to Center Gravity in July to see how I get on with it, hope it's not too noisy.
What I can say so far is it's pretty 'raw' compared to my GT4 as expected, or anything else I've driven for a long time, and a real beast compared to the 968. Suspension very hard as I knew, but it goes great and sounds pretty epic above 3k especially, the modified exhaust I think is part of the Manthey upgrade ??
Probably the noisiest car at idle I've been in for a long time as well, sounds a bit rough and many mechanical noises partly down to single mass flywheel I presume.
Steering has lot's of feedback and feel, but here's the thing, I'm not sure I prefer it over the GT4 steering at all somehow.
I did pay over £70k but I'm fine with that, who knows where prices will go but it wasn't my main reason for buying, just fancied getting back to basics with something a bit special for a while.
I did initially have some reservations about the Manthey upgrade, but after a bit of research I was became quite comfortable with it, it's not as if there's a Porsche warranty on the car and the insurance was fine with it.
As R says a lot of cars with CS spec but not actually the full factory CS spec, just watch out if you really want one, I saw a car advertised specifically as factory CS recently on here but actually wasn't at all, wrong bonnet sticker codes and lack of battery cut off switch gave it away.
A couple of pics :
Sandy59 said:
Porsche911R said:
A real mk1 CS would be nice, not the pretend ones which say CS pack.
They will go up also imo but more than £60k to get in one.
You really should drive my Spyder.
I have fairly recently bought a mk1 proper CS to match my 968 CS They will go up also imo but more than £60k to get in one.
You really should drive my Spyder.
Actually I didn't specifically search out the same colour but I think it does look pretty smart.
This one has a Manthey 400 upgrade by JZM, and set up pretty much for the track, will be heading to Silverstone after a visit to Center Gravity in July to see how I get on with it, hope it's not too noisy.
What I can say so far is it's pretty 'raw' compared to my GT4 as expected, or anything else I've driven for a long time, and a real beast compared to the 968. Suspension very hard as I knew, but it goes great and sounds pretty epic above 3k especially, the modified exhaust I think is part of the Manthey upgrade ??
Probably the noisiest car at idle I've been in for a long time as well, sounds a bit rough and many mechanical noises partly down to single mass flywheel I presume.
Steering has lot's of feedback and feel, but here's the thing, I'm not sure I prefer it over the GT4 steering at all somehow.
I did pay over £70k but I'm fine with that, who knows where prices will go but it wasn't my main reason for buying, just fancied getting back to basics with something a bit special for a while.
I did initially have some reservations about the Manthey upgrade, but after a bit of research I was became quite comfortable with it, it's not as if there's a Porsche warranty on the car and the insurance was fine with it.
As R says a lot of cars with CS spec but not actually the full factory CS spec, just watch out if you really want one, I saw a car advertised specifically as factory CS recently on here but actually wasn't at all, wrong bonnet sticker codes and lack of battery cut off switch gave it away.
The original owner of my old Mk1 GT3 has fitted it and it was superb.
Real CS cars are good if you can find one, mine was a comfort and I fitted the proper CS seats and full OEM cage. Not a cheap thing to do but the prices of the cars were much less then £36k from memory.
Personally would not be obsessed to have a CS if the right car comes along with buckets and fit the OEM rear cage from someone like Gert at Carnewal.
I’d plump for a Mk1 as it was the last Weissach built car.
Have a mate with a Mk1 Clubsport very nice car that maybe would sell have known it for 14 years.
Ideally you should experience both cars - mk1 and mk2 - to build your own perspective.
If you get one it takes a while to learn what it does, listen to its noises and feedback, and decide whether they do it for you. It's a journey which can be a lot of fun.
I had a 996 mk2 cs and a 981 GT4 cs....I kept the 996, to me they are wonderful machines. I also have a track bias in how it is used - of course as a pure road car the later variants and/or GT4 may be better suited.
I think the following pic sort of sums it up for me. Taken at Ascari in the wet earlier this year...one a cup car, the other a 996 mk2 GT3 road car (with some manthey upgrades). Both were on racing wets. A lap in each car on that day cemented what others have said here frequently about how the 996 GT3 is so closely related to the cup of the time. With both being LHD and in white, apart from softer materials and sound deadening, both cars felt oh so related in how they drove! In the wet conditions with old wets on the cup (plus a pax for weight) and new wets on the road car to equalise performance a little, there wasn't much performance difference!
If you get one it takes a while to learn what it does, listen to its noises and feedback, and decide whether they do it for you. It's a journey which can be a lot of fun.
I had a 996 mk2 cs and a 981 GT4 cs....I kept the 996, to me they are wonderful machines. I also have a track bias in how it is used - of course as a pure road car the later variants and/or GT4 may be better suited.
I think the following pic sort of sums it up for me. Taken at Ascari in the wet earlier this year...one a cup car, the other a 996 mk2 GT3 road car (with some manthey upgrades). Both were on racing wets. A lap in each car on that day cemented what others have said here frequently about how the 996 GT3 is so closely related to the cup of the time. With both being LHD and in white, apart from softer materials and sound deadening, both cars felt oh so related in how they drove! In the wet conditions with old wets on the cup (plus a pax for weight) and new wets on the road car to equalise performance a little, there wasn't much performance difference!
Edited by LaSource on Friday 14th June 08:44
Sandy59 said:
I have fairly recently bought a mk1 proper CS to match my 968 CS
Actually I didn't specifically search out the same colour but I think it does look pretty smart.
This one has a Manthey 400 upgrade by JZM, and set up pretty much for the track, will be heading to Silverstone after a visit to Center Gravity in July to see how I get on with it, hope it's not too noisy.
What I can say so far is it's pretty 'raw' compared to my GT4 as expected, or anything else I've driven for a long time, and a real beast compared to the 968. Suspension very hard as I knew, but it goes great and sounds pretty epic above 3k especially, the modified exhaust I think is part of the Manthey upgrade ??
Probably the noisiest car at idle I've been in for a long time as well, sounds a bit rough and many mechanical noises partly down to single mass flywheel I presume.
Steering has lot's of feedback and feel, but here's the thing, I'm not sure I prefer it over the GT4 steering at all somehow.
I did pay over £70k but I'm fine with that, who knows where prices will go but it wasn't my main reason for buying, just fancied getting back to basics with something a bit special for a while.
I did initially have some reservations about the Manthey upgrade, but after a bit of research I was became quite comfortable with it, it's not as if there's a Porsche warranty on the car and the insurance was fine with it.
As R says a lot of cars with CS spec but not actually the full factory CS spec, just watch out if you really want one, I saw a car advertised specifically as factory CS recently on here but actually wasn't at all, wrong bonnet sticker codes and lack of battery cut off switch gave it away.
A couple of pics :
Congratulations, if it’s the car I think it is, it’s one of the best examples out there. The exhaust is the later M&M system, both the manifolds and system itself were manufactured by M&M, whereas the earlier systems used M&M manifolds and the rest of the system was manufactured by Europipe.Actually I didn't specifically search out the same colour but I think it does look pretty smart.
This one has a Manthey 400 upgrade by JZM, and set up pretty much for the track, will be heading to Silverstone after a visit to Center Gravity in July to see how I get on with it, hope it's not too noisy.
What I can say so far is it's pretty 'raw' compared to my GT4 as expected, or anything else I've driven for a long time, and a real beast compared to the 968. Suspension very hard as I knew, but it goes great and sounds pretty epic above 3k especially, the modified exhaust I think is part of the Manthey upgrade ??
Probably the noisiest car at idle I've been in for a long time as well, sounds a bit rough and many mechanical noises partly down to single mass flywheel I presume.
Steering has lot's of feedback and feel, but here's the thing, I'm not sure I prefer it over the GT4 steering at all somehow.
I did pay over £70k but I'm fine with that, who knows where prices will go but it wasn't my main reason for buying, just fancied getting back to basics with something a bit special for a while.
I did initially have some reservations about the Manthey upgrade, but after a bit of research I was became quite comfortable with it, it's not as if there's a Porsche warranty on the car and the insurance was fine with it.
As R says a lot of cars with CS spec but not actually the full factory CS spec, just watch out if you really want one, I saw a car advertised specifically as factory CS recently on here but actually wasn't at all, wrong bonnet sticker codes and lack of battery cut off switch gave it away.
A couple of pics :
The later systems seem to be quieter and generally less strident, your car has some additional small silencers pre or post cat IIRC, and is quieter still.
Here’s what the the unfettered early systems sound like (you’ll need patience for the first video as my editing skills are non-existent...) :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqBAt_rk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3J8HeIfJwc
Your car has KW coil overs on, I can’t remember if they’re the Manthey versions or the standard V3’s, either way, a session with Chris at CG will be money well spent.
Enjoy what is a cracking car !
Slippydiff said:
Congratulations, if it’s the car I think it is, it’s one of the best examples out there. The exhaust is the later M&M system, both the manifolds and system itself were manufactured by M&M, whereas the earlier systems used M&M manifolds and the rest of the system was manufactured by Europipe.
The later systems seem to be quieter and generally less strident, your car has some additional small silencers pre or post cat IIRC, and is quieter still.
Here’s what the the unfettered early systems sound like (you’ll need patience for the first video as my editing skills are non-existent...) :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqBAt_rk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3J8HeIfJwc
Your car has KW coil overs on, I can’t remember if they’re the Manthey versions or the standard V3’s, either way, a session with Chris at CG will be money well spent.
Enjoy what is a cracking car !
Thanks for that info there, all good to know, can't access YT at the moment though unfortunately.The later systems seem to be quieter and generally less strident, your car has some additional small silencers pre or post cat IIRC, and is quieter still.
Here’s what the the unfettered early systems sound like (you’ll need patience for the first video as my editing skills are non-existent...) :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqBAt_rk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3J8HeIfJwc
Your car has KW coil overs on, I can’t remember if they’re the Manthey versions or the standard V3’s, either way, a session with Chris at CG will be money well spent.
Enjoy what is a cracking car !
I believe the coil overs are KW Clubsports as the front struts seem to have a small cylinder attached to the bottom of them ??
Great looking 996 that Sandy..I seem to remember that particular car being highlighted on another P'head thread quite recently and was up for about £78K IIRC..Well worth the money IMO especially with the Manthey kit and with only 24K miles on the odo..Speed yellow best colour as well..!
There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
Taffy, I'd second what 993rsr and LaSource have said. I've had my 996 RS for 15 years. I've had lots of stuff come and go in that period but I will never sell this car. There are 3 Mk2's for sale with leather buckets around the early 60's at the moment. Go and buy one and start the journey - you won't regret it. I've had both mk1 and mk2. Whilst the mk1 is a lovely car I would opt for mk2, numerous reasons but just my opinion. But my opinion is based on it being a drivers tool, I couldn't give a monkeys about value or any of that crap.
Upgrade the car as you go, and as you learn it and get quicker. Learning to drive a 911 quickly is the most rewarding motoring journey you will ever have.
Upgrade the car as you go, and as you learn it and get quicker. Learning to drive a 911 quickly is the most rewarding motoring journey you will ever have.
Taffy66 said:
Great looking 996 that Sandy..I seem to remember that particular car being highlighted on another P'head thread quite recently and was up for about £78K IIRC..Well worth the money IMO especially with the Manthey kit and with only 24K miles on the odo..Speed yellow best colour as well..!
There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
As I mentioned have a pal with a very nice Mk1 gt3cs with the k400, KW dampers 8:32 diff and lots of other nice bits including BBS split rims.There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
Might sell for the right price.
JulierPass said:
Taffy, I'd second what 993rsr and LaSource have said. I've had my 996 RS for 15 years. I've had lots of stuff come and go in that period but I will never sell this car. There are 3 Mk2's for sale with leather buckets around the early 60's at the moment. Go and buy one and start the journey - you won't regret it. I've had both mk1 and mk2. Whilst the mk1 is a lovely car I would opt for mk2, numerous reasons but just my opinion. But my opinion is based on it being a drivers tool, I couldn't give a monkeys about value or any of that crap.
Upgrade the car as you go, and as you learn it and get quicker. Learning to drive a 911 quickly is the most rewarding motoring journey you will ever have.
Would like a 996RS if prices get to an more sensible level.Upgrade the car as you go, and as you learn it and get quicker. Learning to drive a 911 quickly is the most rewarding motoring journey you will ever have.
Still think the 996 GT3 is the sweet spot between air cooled and the newer variants.
Sandy59 said:
Steering has lot's of feedback and feel, but here's the thing, I'm not sure I prefer it over the GT4 steering at all somehow.
interesting, what the die hards say is feed back I called my GT3 steering busy in a bad way, due to the hard sus and front ARB the car never rode the bumbs well and thus transmitted all that back via the steering wheel in a bad way.,I dialled a lot of it out, but never gelled with it enough for road use due to the gearing issues.great car though, only what 28 real ones and the 1st GT3 so it's a safe buy, but like most GT3 esp ones with after market shocks etc they don't make good UK road cars :-( imho. A reason I don't have a RS of any model in my garage.
Although I do hanker after a 997.1 GT3 atm and throw a ton of money at it. Risky but I am sure I can make one for road use blasting.
At £70k the 997.1 now seems the best value to throw a short final drive and some plush shocks at.
Taffy66 said:
Great looking 996 that Sandy..I seem to remember that particular car being highlighted on another P'head thread quite recently and was up for about £78K IIRC..Well worth the money IMO especially with the Manthey kit and with only 24K miles on the odo..Speed yellow best colour as well..!
There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
Thanks Taffy, same car but good there was some wiggle room on the price There was another 996GT3 albeit gen 2 shown on the same thread..Its a Basalt black car comfort with buckets and tequipment cage and up for £61.5K..Its still for sale although i think the 996GT3 deserves a bright colour.
There's a guy on FB Porsche 911 GT3 group looking to sell a black Mk1 with Manthey kit, 62K miles and wondering about the pricing at around 60k, CS spec and looks good.
Porsche911R said:
interesting, what the die hards say is feed back I called my GT3 steering busy in a bad way, due to the hard sus and front ARB the car never rode the bumbs well and thus transmitted all that back via the steering wheel in a bad way.,I dialled a lot of it out, but never gelled with it enough for road use due to the gearing issues.
great car though, only what 28 real ones and the 1st GT3 so it's a safe buy, but like most GT3 esp ones with after market shocks etc they don't make good UK road cars :-( imho. A reason I don't have a RS of any model in my garage.
Although I do hanker after a 997.1 GT3 atm and throw a ton of money at it. Risky but I am sure I can make one for road use blasting.
At £70k the 997.1 now seems the best value to throw a short final drive and some plush shocks at.
Yes I'd agree with your assessment of the steering to be honest, will see what Chris at CG thinks next month.great car though, only what 28 real ones and the 1st GT3 so it's a safe buy, but like most GT3 esp ones with after market shocks etc they don't make good UK road cars :-( imho. A reason I don't have a RS of any model in my garage.
Although I do hanker after a 997.1 GT3 atm and throw a ton of money at it. Risky but I am sure I can make one for road use blasting.
At £70k the 997.1 now seems the best value to throw a short final drive and some plush shocks at.
I have to take into account it's basically set up for the track and not a daily driver, it may be sublime on a smooth track which is what I'd be hoping for.
Sandy59 said:
Yes I'd agree with your assessment of the steering to be honest, will see what Chris at CG thinks next month.
I have to take into account it's basically set up for the track and not a daily driver, it may be sublime on a smooth track which is what I'd be hoping for.
I am sure on smoother tarmac it will be mega and the steering will come into it's own then.I have to take into account it's basically set up for the track and not a daily driver, it may be sublime on a smooth track which is what I'd be hoping for.
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