Ferrari To Launch 1.6 Litre With Hybrid 800HP Engine

[Juno]

So where will this type of power plant leave Porsche and what direction will they move in?

Whilst I think 500-600HP is plenty and the sweet spot for a road car and the GT models those who chase numbers might see it as being left behind!

I’ll always be happy to smoke a 4.0/4.2 NA flat 6 but it would appear that 550HP could be the max point of development!

Can Porsche live with a deficit of circa 250HP compared to its competition?

[MDL111]

Ferrari just launched a 1000 hp hybrid for what people seem to be paying for a GT2RS or a 911R on the secondary market, so not sure it has any relevance for them.
I doubt many GT3RS buyers are cross-shopping with a (800hp) Portofino at say 200k or a SF90 at 400k or whatever it is
Different cars for different uses (one for track days at reasonable running costs, the others for ownership experience/posing/childhood dream/Autobahn/etc - delete as appropriate)

[Porsche911R]

300bhp/ton is a sweet spot imo.

Over that the cars get a bit too fast for the road.
I think my GT3 is close to perfect if we had no laws, but it’s a tad too fast and a bit too heavy.

Also cars circa 1300kg feel far better than cars at 1500kg's in changes of direction and brakes.
So it matters not what a 1500kg car has bhp wise, it will always feel fat to drive.

So we need a sub 1300kg car with 390bhp.

Any one make that in NA, Manual, rwd with real steering feel.

I was thinking about a 997.1 GT3 and give it a weight loss program down to 1350kg and a short final drive. Just not sure how much it would cost to try and get the weight off a GT3, esp to hit the magic 1300kg's.

My little Spyders now about 270bhp ton but it would cost quite a lot to get to 300bhp/ton.

I test drove an Exige 410 the other day was a fun thing, the engines not great though and a bit high up in the chassis.

[Cheib]

Porsche CEO said about a year ago that a hybrid 911 will be coming during the production cycle of 992.2 and will be “the most powerful 911 ever”....so over 700 bhp then. Whether it rivals the Ferrari who knows but I am not sure Porsche are in a power race with Ferrari or vice versa.

[Juno]

I get the bit about not being directly in competition with them but surely there comes a point particularly if Mclaren etc start to follow the same F1 small hybrid engine route!

When your out on a limb you’ve got to be very good at what you do if you’re different, maybe Porsche are good enough but I just wonder how long it will be before the norm for super cars is a small F1 type hybrid motor

I’d be very happy with a 4.2/4.3 flat screamer to the end of days

Long may it continue

[Leonard Stanley]

Porsche911R said:

300bhp/ton is a sweet spot imo.

Over that the cars get a bit too fast for the road.
I think my GT3 is close to perfect if we had no laws, but it’s a tad too fast and a bit too heavy.

Also cars circa 1300kg feel far better than cars at 1500kg's in changes of direction and brakes.
So it matters not what a 1500kg car has bhp wise, it will always feel fat to drive.

So we need a sub 1300kg car with 390bhp.

Any one make that in NA, Manual, rwd with real steering feel.

I was thinking about a 997.1 GT3 and give it a weight loss program down to 1350kg and a short final drive. Just not sure how much it would cost to try and get the weight off a GT3, esp to hit the magic 1300kg's.

My little Spyders now about 270bhp ton but it would cost quite a lot to get to 300bhp/ton.

I test drove an Exige 410 the other day was a fun thing, the engines not great though and a bit high up in the chassis.

Cayman GTS nearly clears throat.

[Porsche911R]

Leonard Stanley said:

Cayman GTS nearly clears throat.

It’s not 1300kg, it’s not 390bhp so down at 257 bhp/ton best case. and it’s got eps, so no.

[MDL111]

Porsche911R said:

Leonard Stanley said:

Cayman GTS nearly clears throat.

It’s not 1300kg, it’s not 390bhp so down at 257 bhp/ton best case. and it’s got eps, so no.

Factory built ultima with a small engine / not a high revving car though

Road registered 996 Cup with a few carpets added to make it more liveable
I think the 355 Challenge might be close

Granted they are old cars as opposed to new, so probably not what you were after

[Porsche911R]

MDL111 said:

Factory built ultima with a small engine / not a high revving car though

Road registered 996 Cup with a few carpets added to make it more liveable
I think the 355 Challenge might be close

Granted they are old cars as opposed to new, so probably not what you were after

they don't cut it for the 300bhp/ton bar maybe the ultima and they are pants. 355 is close as you say, but about 280.

pretty tricky for a simple ask you notice, when you then don't want to pay £100k

why do you think I have kept my Spyder for 7 years

new aim is 1200kg and 360bhp. but it's already a hoot as it is, a very misunderstood car imo and people need to buy them up as they don't make them like that any more if you like driving.

all eps cars are not really fun cars how ever great they are, nor are heavy cars. The big players are into BHP and downforce now neither of which interest.

next best thing would be a 997.1 GT3 project imo but I have just bought a car so that's for another day.

hot rod 964 projects work but don't think you will hit the numbers either.

really not many manufacturers even modded are doable as I am talking a real 300bhp/ton not over weight fake weight figures !

987.2 Spyder and 997.1 GT3 seem to be 2 of the best starting points.



lighteness is key here when ypu have driven lighter cars every thing else does feel fat.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 11th July 09:30

[Leonard Stanley]

Porsche911R said:

Leonard Stanley said:

Cayman GTS nearly clears throat.

It’s not 1300kg, it’s not 390bhp so down at 257 bhp/ton best case. and it’s got eps, so no.

Hence ‘Nearly’.

Near enough for me.

And that’s all that matters.

[Leonard Stanley]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed :-)

[Grantstown]

Perhaps you could strip out a 997.1 Carrera 3.6 and have Hartech do their 4.0 conversion for you with new liners and pistons etc.? The starting cost would be low for your project.

[browngt3]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This.
The ICE is going to become increasingly a niche product for enthusiasts as electric plays an ever bigger role. I believe Porsche recognise this hence GT products with na and manuel boxes. Regarding weight they are hampered with regulations etc. I really hope the 918 replacement won't be all electric but that would seem the logical step to me given the direction of the company.

[Porsche911R]

Leonard Stanley said:

Hence ‘Nearly’.

Near enough for me.

And that’s all that matters.

it's really not nearly and gen 1 EPS is pretty st imo.

it's a non starter for many reasons for me. but EPS kills that car dead , the EPS on my 991.1 GTS was the same, so I sold it already.
but it did have the engine, finding all the rights things in a car is VERY hard.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

correct it is a arbitrary figure but in the real world seems to be a very nice sweet spot to build/aim for.

200bhp/ton is not fast enough, how every good it handles. (for me anyway) other wise we would all be in MX5's

As I said, for me it needs to be also, NA, RWD, no EPS etc etc.

I have 2 cars way over that bhp/figure but they are too heavy.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

the 3.4 dfi does not really have a flat top end to moan about !! and you need the torque out the bends !! it's not 991.1 x51 GTS like but it's a bloody good unit which revs out esp with a few mods.

Torque wins races ;-)

but it's moot as the steering st on 981's

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I am already about there, 1200kg and 360 bhp is it. I keep buying bits, Ti wheel nuts this month as an example.

I don't want it as a dailty, it has no AC , no radio etc etc. it's already very nimble, revs out and stops on its nose.
Just now doing it becasue I can but it will be a better car again for the extra mods.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 11th July 14:59

[ellroy]

Leonard Stanley said:

Cayman GTS nearly clears throat.

Or 991GTS which is about bang on the 300/tonne number.

[Leonard Stanley]

Porsche911R said:

Leonard Stanley said:

Hence ‘Nearly’.

Near enough for me.

And that’s all that matters.

it's really not nearly and gen 1 EPS is pretty st imo.

it's a non starter for many reasons for me. but EPS kills that car dead , the EPS on my 991.1 GTS was the same, so I sold it already.
but it did have the engine, finding all the rights things in a car is VERY hard.

The EPS? Srsly? Could it be that your expectations are too high? Ruling out enjoyment of some frankly excellent cars? I've never felt that to be an issue with the 981 at all.

[Taffy66]

I agree that 300PS/Ton seems to be a sweet point for road cars as long as the car is circa 1100-1200Kg max..I much prefer a manual for road cars but PDK for track work..Another point worth making is new cars are getting too expensive for the average car enthusiast with family,work commitments etc.
The new GT4/Spyder fully specced at nearly £90K is the top end of what's realistically sustainable for a sports car which can be used regularly IMO..I'm starting to get tired of buying ever more expensive cars and my new RS at £180K OTR is the absolute maximum i'll spend on a single car.
I really like the concept of the new Alpine with 300PS and only 1100Kg for under £60K...It ticks all my boxes although i'd prefer a manual in it, then it'd be perfect and i'd probably buy one now..
I took my son to the cinema on Tuesday night about 35 miles away top down in my 981 Spyder...Perfect car IMO.I still think the new GT4/spyder will surprise some on here in how good they'll be after reading some reviews...On paper spec sheets don't tell you everything especially with new hyped Porsches.