997 understeer
Discussion
It’s definitely “c”.
But actually, I’m always surprised by people’s ability to get a 997 of any ilk to understeer on a public highway/Internet forum, where I have been trying for a long time to crash at any amount of ridiculous speed and the thing just goes round corners.
Ok, In the snow, it will under-grip, then overslide, but maybe I’m not doing it right....
But actually, I’m always surprised by people’s ability to get a 997 of any ilk to understeer on a public highway/Internet forum, where I have been trying for a long time to crash at any amount of ridiculous speed and the thing just goes round corners.
Ok, In the snow, it will under-grip, then overslide, but maybe I’m not doing it right....
I definitely experience understeer on my car, but need two things before it occurs.
1/ I need to be pushing very hard (very rare on a public road)
And
2/ I need to have buggered up my braking and or throttle control into a corner so the weight transfer is all wrong.
Thankfully, those two things rarely happen, but it has been known!
1/ I need to be pushing very hard (very rare on a public road)
And
2/ I need to have buggered up my braking and or throttle control into a corner so the weight transfer is all wrong.
Thankfully, those two things rarely happen, but it has been known!
That’s basically it above, your just getting it wrong, the 911 as you are aware is rear wheel drive, but unlike some other RWD cars the cars engine is sat out back as opposed to up front and driven by a prop or mid engined, slow in fast out is the order of the day, once you get used to accelerating into, round and out of the corner you’ll be fine, if you feel like you should be lifting off what you actually need to do is accelerate,
ArchiesDad said:
That’s basically it above, your just getting it wrong, the 911 as you are aware is rear wheel drive, but unlike some other RWD cars the cars engine is sat out back as opposed to up front and driven by a prop or mid engined, slow in fast out is the order of the day, once you get used to accelerating into, round and out of the corner you’ll be fine, if you feel like you should be lifting off what you actually need to do is accelerate,
“once you get used to accelerating into, round and out of the corner you’ll be fine”How many corners do you accelerate into ?
ArchiesDad said:
What am I doing wrong then ?
I always set my self up, do my braking before entering the corner get my gear shifts sorted before entry and apply some throttle to weight the car up and gradually accelerate ?
Should I be freewheeling into the bends ?
You should be braking into the bend to keep the weight on the nose of the car (trail braking)...when you do come off the brake you then need to get on the throttle as quickly as possible...the quicker this is the the better for the balance of the car but obviously not too much power. And then start to squeeze the throttle as you unwind the lock.I always set my self up, do my braking before entering the corner get my gear shifts sorted before entry and apply some throttle to weight the car up and gradually accelerate ?
Should I be freewheeling into the bends ?
You should also be looking through the bend (as far ahead as possible) and trying to set the steering up so that you only make one steering input...as again making steering inputs unsettle’s the car.weight and grip. Clearly the latter is not always possible on a public road.
ArchiesDad said:
What am I doing wrong then ?
I always set my self up, do my braking before entering the corner get my gear shifts sorted before entry and apply some throttle to weight the car up and gradually accelerate ?
Should I be freewheeling into the bends ?
No braking :-) unless you want to crash. I always set my self up, do my braking before entering the corner get my gear shifts sorted before entry and apply some throttle to weight the car up and gradually accelerate ?
Should I be freewheeling into the bends ?
Two key area to slow lap times by people who drive fast and wonder why they are slow over all is threshold braking and Low apex speeds, and they Normally are people braking too early and then having to freewheel into the bend, they brake early, freewheel into the bend under steering and PTV doing the work instead to allow he car to find the apex, this is very common and thus the high rear brake wear people see and over heated front tyres edges. Now very common sight at track days.
I find 911 drivers don’t transfer well into GT4’s , they loose too much apex speed.
GT4 drivers seem to transfer to a 911 far better.
Ofcourse not all bends you brake for, it just is a let off the throttle and a freewheel is enough for the turn in, but any bend where you need to brake, you are braking to the apex really.
You will have to trail brake into medium bends and have to threshold brake into tighter bends.
Corner entry is key to a lap time every thing else ends up being a bi product of how well you do he entry.
That all makes sense, and most of it I’m doing naturally I think, except for the braking into corners to weight up the front end, I’ve never tracked my 911, so some of that doesn’t really Relate to road driving as much as I’d like it to U.K. roads are littered with idiot drivers, bikers who love ripping past on the straights and then wobble all over in the corners and cyclists, which I don’t mind..... it’s the idiot drivers who pass the cyclists in blind corners I don’t like !
In all honesty I’m not going fast enough to be hard braking on the B roads and tend to carry speed into And round the bends, I find driving a 911 can pretty much out corner most other cars so I am guilty of leading tailgaters into bends without braking just to watch the ensuing drama unfold in the rear view mirror. Which probably puts me in a category I listed above ?
Play with trail braking...it will make a massive different. And they key is to get on the throttle as quickly as possible once you are in the corner without upsetting the balance of the car.
You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
Cheib said:
Play with trail braking...it will make a massive different. And they key is to get on the throttle as quickly as possible once you are in the corner without upsetting the balance of the car.
You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
Depends what you want from the car, you have to be going some in a modern GT3 to need to trail brake esp if you already have done a nice geo.You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
Better off learning threshold braking imho at least you will use that on the road over trail braking.
Trail braking is a nice technique to get the nose in snd the car rotating. I think it would be wise to consider it a dry weather technique unless an expert! I’ve really enjoyed being taught how it helps when driving the 911 around those tight apexes. It’s amazing how much value there is in a little tuition.
My BMW X1 demonstrates incredible levels of understeer, especially as it currently has far grippier tyres on the rear. For many on here it will have been a while since they’ve experienced the foibles of such a modest car!
My 991 has an open differential, but I’ve been told that the cars with a limited slip diff tend to want to push on into understeer with the added rear axle grip. Maybe not so much if the car has torque vectoring, but all these driver aids are surely spoiling all the fun?! Happy to be corrected by the racers out there.
My BMW X1 demonstrates incredible levels of understeer, especially as it currently has far grippier tyres on the rear. For many on here it will have been a while since they’ve experienced the foibles of such a modest car!
My 991 has an open differential, but I’ve been told that the cars with a limited slip diff tend to want to push on into understeer with the added rear axle grip. Maybe not so much if the car has torque vectoring, but all these driver aids are surely spoiling all the fun?! Happy to be corrected by the racers out there.
Porsche911R said:
Cheib said:
Play with trail braking...it will make a massive different. And they key is to get on the throttle as quickly as possible once you are in the corner without upsetting the balance of the car.
You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
Depends what you want from the car, you have to be going some in a modern GT3 to need to trail brake esp if you already have done a nice geo.You can practise at sensible speeds and build up.
I learnt by paying for instruction ! I’ve actually just booked a morning at Milbrook followed by an afternoon of road driving with one of the PEC instructors. The former is a great place to learn as they have plenty of circuits which simulate road driving.
Better off learning threshold braking imho at least you will use that on the road over trail braking.
You can use trail braking effectively at decent road speeds. Cheib said:
OP doesn’t say anything about a GT3...he just says he’s got a 997 as have I You can use trail braking effectively at decent road speeds.
I don’t find you need to trail on public roads even driving balls out. You can use trail braking effectively at decent road speeds. It's def a track bias thing when you are on the limit and have no turn in.
Porsche911R said:
Cheib said:
OP doesn’t say anything about a GT3...he just says he’s got a 997 as have I You can use trail braking effectively at decent road speeds.
I don’t find you need to trail on public roads even driving balls out. You can use trail braking effectively at decent road speeds. It's def a track bias thing when you are on the limit and have no turn in.
Nobody except you has talked about driving balls out down a public road. You don’t need to be driving “balls out” to feel how a car corners differently with the weight shifted forward.
Coming from older cars, was recently quite surprised at how much you still drive a 997 off the rear axle. But then working it out is a large part of the fun.
I personally now favour a more neutral feeling car through the twists, but I can absolutely see why the traditional 911 traits are seductive to many.
I personally now favour a more neutral feeling car through the twists, but I can absolutely see why the traditional 911 traits are seductive to many.
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