Recommend a GT3 to a 911 newbie?
Discussion
I have had a long procession of Elises, Boxsters and Caymans but feel I need to scratch the 911 itch. I've always wanted a GT3 but never even driven one. I have road driven a few 911s and a few at PEC over the years.
I have had a tendency to swap out cars that turn out to be one dimensional or just so capable they are dull. I don't need it for daily duties. I would like to get onto track again but it would only be a couple a year.
So, would you recommend a GT3 to a 911 newbie? I am looking at 996.2 and 997.1.
I have had a tendency to swap out cars that turn out to be one dimensional or just so capable they are dull. I don't need it for daily duties. I would like to get onto track again but it would only be a couple a year.
So, would you recommend a GT3 to a 911 newbie? I am looking at 996.2 and 997.1.
Edited by andywalton on Friday 11th December 10:47
Both of those will deliver a visceral driving experience. Broadly speaking I would go with the best your budget can afford with the least miles.
These cars seem to be mileage sensitive. You may prefer the interior of an older 996 as apposed to a 997 or vice versa, so quite a large element of this decision is going to be your personal preference.
These cars seem to be mileage sensitive. You may prefer the interior of an older 996 as apposed to a 997 or vice versa, so quite a large element of this decision is going to be your personal preference.
My 1st Porsche was a 996 GT3. Unbelievable machine - visceral, communicative, track focused (mine was modified to make more track focused) and sounded amazing. No car has ever got under my skin like a GT3 has and I’m fortunate to have had many more since that one.
996 will feel more raw than a 997, but the later car will feel more modern and is a better looking car too. But both more than capable to use in all conditions, just need to make sure the geo is sorted to get the best feel from either of them.
Have fun looking - be sure to drive one and get into the higher parts of the rev range (once warmed up of course) as the Mezger engine comes alive and is like a drug - you’ll be going back for more
996 will feel more raw than a 997, but the later car will feel more modern and is a better looking car too. But both more than capable to use in all conditions, just need to make sure the geo is sorted to get the best feel from either of them.
Have fun looking - be sure to drive one and get into the higher parts of the rev range (once warmed up of course) as the Mezger engine comes alive and is like a drug - you’ll be going back for more
The 996.2 and 997.1 are an evolution rather than a revolution in how they drive (The 996.1 and 2 are actually more different). Both are very, very good cars. People will point to driver aids – but you can just turn off traction in the 997.
PASM in the 997 is nothing but a bonus, it improves damping, and the switchable suspension gives a little more option out of the box. The front end of the 997 is more tied down.
The 997 has the sweeter engine with more low down torque and is higher revving with a jump in power.
The interior of the 997 is much more premium and better put together, but also I love the interior in my 996 for its simplicity and feeling of being a classic – it is very 90’s in there though!
They also sound quite different, the 997 was the first time a GT3 had a centre exit exhaust that merged the exhaust gases from each bank.
Geometry wise, there is not a wrong answer as it is individual, the car just needs to be set for your intended use.
You could do a lot worse than watch the first 15 minutes of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLmc_M-0ng&li...
PASM in the 997 is nothing but a bonus, it improves damping, and the switchable suspension gives a little more option out of the box. The front end of the 997 is more tied down.
The 997 has the sweeter engine with more low down torque and is higher revving with a jump in power.
The interior of the 997 is much more premium and better put together, but also I love the interior in my 996 for its simplicity and feeling of being a classic – it is very 90’s in there though!
They also sound quite different, the 997 was the first time a GT3 had a centre exit exhaust that merged the exhaust gases from each bank.
Geometry wise, there is not a wrong answer as it is individual, the car just needs to be set for your intended use.
You could do a lot worse than watch the first 15 minutes of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLmc_M-0ng&li...
If looked after the GT3 engines will do high mileages, so if a car to dive and not worry ... in other words a car to consume rather than an investment, I would go for a 996.2 GT3 ... maybe a comfort if that was the best car ...
The 996.1 is something extra special, but from a driver perspective the better brakes and unleashed engine of the 996.2 are worth having ...
The 996.1 were under-stressed test beds out of Porsche .. ran to 7300rpm and tested to 9000 ? But 993 Turbo brakes were really not good enough unless you didn't use them on track (which was not too difficult) .. and the .2 fixed this and lightened the engine internals for an 8200 rev limit ? All from memory ...
The 996.1 is something extra special, but from a driver perspective the better brakes and unleashed engine of the 996.2 are worth having ...
The 996.1 were under-stressed test beds out of Porsche .. ran to 7300rpm and tested to 9000 ? But 993 Turbo brakes were really not good enough unless you didn't use them on track (which was not too difficult) .. and the .2 fixed this and lightened the engine internals for an 8200 rev limit ? All from memory ...
Thanks for all the input. I must admit I am going back and forward. I have been thinking about what I intend to use the car for and whether the additional outlay over a lowly 997.2 C2S is really justified. Also I am a tinkerer and for a mainly road car, driven at UK road speeds would a tweaked 997.2 be just as enjoyable?
I need to go a test drive ... but given the limited supply and the various lock-downs that looks a few months away.
I have watched the Top Gear new GT3 video a few times ... what a time you could have just working your way through that collection.
I need to go a test drive ... but given the limited supply and the various lock-downs that looks a few months away.
I have watched the Top Gear new GT3 video a few times ... what a time you could have just working your way through that collection.
RC1 said:
are you in the market to buy? from my conversations with them, the dealers are more than welcoming test drives
I've always wondered how people get a good feel of these cars from test driving with dealers? I had once thought maybe I could do a 'driving experience' and pay for it, but even then, the 'instructors' don't let you get the full feel of the car. I've only recently gotten into pushing the limit of the car and had bought a 981 2.7 for non-track reasons. But I couldn't imagine how I'd decide on a track focused car.Certainly in the market ... just not exactly sure for what though. The challenge is that I have never driven a GT3 - in fact I've not driven a 996. It's more important to me that I want to drive it on the road rather than the track. I tweaked my Elise 135R back in the day - Nitrons, DVA head work, AO48Rs, etc. and it was brilliant on track but it used to try to spit me off B roads.
I know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
I know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
andywalton said:
Certainly in the market ... just not exactly sure for what though. The challenge is that I have never driven a GT3 - in fact I've not driven a 996. It's more important to me that I want to drive it on the road rather than the track. I tweaked my Elise 135R back in the day - Nitrons, DVA head work, AO48Rs, etc. and it was brilliant on track but it used to try to spit me off B roads.
I know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
If it's a car to used rather than polished, and the repair/replacement of the panel has been done to a high standard, I wouldn't be concerned about the panel replacement on the blue car at JZM. If you're in any doubt as to your ability to establish the quality of the repair, take someone who knows these cars inside out with you to inspect it (if it means paying them £150-£200, it'll be money well spent, and will probably give you some leverage to negotiate on the price)I know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
JZM will be happy for you to have the car put up on a ramp, so you can carry out a thorough inspection of the car and its bodywork.
A 5 minute test drive won't do you or your perspective of 996 GT3's any favours. I'd say you'll want a minimum of 30 minutes behind the wheel, and preferably an hour, over a variety of roads (twisty A roads, dual carriageways, motorway etc) if you're to get a feel for the car.
The engine, transmission, brakes, tyres and dampers need to be properly warmed through and up to optimal temperature, as the gearboxes can be and I stress the word can, be recalcitrant when cold, the brakes wooden and numb, and depending on what tyres its running on, will quite possibly feel somewhat skittish (especially if it's running a track biased geo set up) and the engine oil needs to be nice and toasty before you attempt to use the full rev range.
There are plenty of helpful contributors on here, and some less so. If you understand the "Empty barrels make the most noise" adage, it'll serve you well.
They're wonderful cars, but very niche and and an acquired taste, if you find one you gel with, you'll be totally smitten, and the car you buy will most likely be the gateway "drug" to further Porsche GT car ownership ...
You've been warned !!
Slippydiff said:
If it's a car to used rather than polished, and the repair/replacement of the panel has been done to a high standard, I wouldn't be concerned about the panel replacement on the blue car at JZM. If you're in any doubt as to your ability to establish the quality of the repair, take someone who knows these cars inside out with you to inspect it (if it means paying them £150-£200, it'll be money well spent, and will probably give you some leverage to negotiate on the price)
JZM will be happy for you to have the car put up on a ramp, so you can carry out a thorough inspection of the car and its bodywork.
A 5 minute test drive won't do you or your perspective of 996 GT3's any favours. I'd say you'll want a minimum of 30 minutes behind the wheel, and preferably an hour, over a variety of roads (twisty A roads, dual carriageways, motorway etc) if you're to get a feel for the car.
The engine, transmission, brakes, tyres and dampers need to be properly warmed through and up to optimal temperature, as the gearboxes can be and I stress the word can, be recalcitrant when cold, the brakes wooden and numb, and depending on what tyres its running on, will quite possibly feel somewhat skittish (especially if it's running a track biased geo set up) and the engine oil needs to be nice and toasty before you attempt to use the full rev range.
There are plenty of helpful contributors on here, and some less so. If you understand the "Empty barrels make the most noise" adage, it'll serve you well.
They're wonderful cars, but very niche and and an acquired taste, if you find one you gel with, you'll be totally smitten, and the car you buy will most likely be the gateway "drug" to further Porsche GT car ownership ...
You've been warned !!
Thanks, very helpful comments.JZM will be happy for you to have the car put up on a ramp, so you can carry out a thorough inspection of the car and its bodywork.
A 5 minute test drive won't do you or your perspective of 996 GT3's any favours. I'd say you'll want a minimum of 30 minutes behind the wheel, and preferably an hour, over a variety of roads (twisty A roads, dual carriageways, motorway etc) if you're to get a feel for the car.
The engine, transmission, brakes, tyres and dampers need to be properly warmed through and up to optimal temperature, as the gearboxes can be and I stress the word can, be recalcitrant when cold, the brakes wooden and numb, and depending on what tyres its running on, will quite possibly feel somewhat skittish (especially if it's running a track biased geo set up) and the engine oil needs to be nice and toasty before you attempt to use the full rev range.
There are plenty of helpful contributors on here, and some less so. If you understand the "Empty barrels make the most noise" adage, it'll serve you well.
They're wonderful cars, but very niche and and an acquired taste, if you find one you gel with, you'll be totally smitten, and the car you buy will most likely be the gateway "drug" to further Porsche GT car ownership ...
You've been warned !!
I've heard a few write that they are an acquired taste ... I'm interested by the "find one you gel with..." The one thing I guess I am most wary about is a punishing ride. I don't mind taut (stiff even) but if that is completely at the expense of secondary ride comfort then that is going to be difficult. The mechanical foibles and letting things get to temp is all par for the course with a highly strung car. What should I be prepared for M030 or M030-plus-plus?
andywalton said:
Thanks, very helpful comments.
I've heard a few write that they are an acquired taste ... I'm interested by the "find one you gel with..." The one thing I guess I am most wary about is a punishing ride. I don't mind taut (stiff even) but if that is completely at the expense of secondary ride comfort then that is going to be difficult. The mechanical foibles and letting things get to temp is all par for the course with a highly strung car. What should I be prepared for M030 or M030-plus-plus?
Go for a test drive post back if you see red line in 3rd.I've heard a few write that they are an acquired taste ... I'm interested by the "find one you gel with..." The one thing I guess I am most wary about is a punishing ride. I don't mind taut (stiff even) but if that is completely at the expense of secondary ride comfort then that is going to be difficult. The mechanical foibles and letting things get to temp is all par for the course with a highly strung car. What should I be prepared for M030 or M030-plus-plus?
Like many have said inc me the cars makes pretty s
tty fun road cars imo. the other 50% will say it's a great road car. (the guy at 3k revs pottering about on a jolly nice day out)you really need a set of shocks and a short final drive, but people only buy trinckets to pose about in on PH it seems.
Not sure about empty barrels or full ones, many of use here have owned and sold the cars on quite a few Cayman R owners are ex 996 GT3 owners.
early GT3's a nice car if you inject some money to tweak it, but it's not cheap.
Porsche911R said:
Go for a test drive post back if you see red line in 3rd.
Like many have said inc me the cars makes pretty stty fun road cars imo. the other 50% will say it's a great road car. (the guy at 3k revs pottering about on a jolly nice day out)
you really need a set of shocks and a short final drive, but people only buy trinckets to pose about in on PH it seems.
Not sure about empty barrels or full ones, many of use here have owned and sold the cars on quite a few Cayman R owners are ex 996 GT3 owners.
early GT3's a nice car if you inject some money to tweak it, but it's not cheap.
Interesting ... I currently have a 987 Cayman S and a 986 Boxster S but I feel I need to scratch the 911 itch. The Cayman would therefore make way as I can't justify having another weekend car. I was looking at the cheaper of the two currently available CSR cars and thinking I could do something similar with a C2S. I know it won't have the engine but it could be 9x% of the GT3 and better suited to the road?Like many have said inc me the cars makes pretty s
tty fun road cars imo. the other 50% will say it's a great road car. (the guy at 3k revs pottering about on a jolly nice day out)you really need a set of shocks and a short final drive, but people only buy trinckets to pose about in on PH it seems.
Not sure about empty barrels or full ones, many of use here have owned and sold the cars on quite a few Cayman R owners are ex 996 GT3 owners.
early GT3's a nice car if you inject some money to tweak it, but it's not cheap.
andywalton said:
Interesting ... I currently have a 987 Cayman S and a 986 Boxster S but I feel I need to scratch the 911 itch. The Cayman would therefore make way as I can't justify having another weekend car. I was looking at the cheaper of the two currently available CSR cars and thinking I could do something similar with a C2S. I know it won't have the engine but it could be 9x% of the GT3 and better suited to the road?
Go for a test drive and see for yourself. I daily my 7.2 and 1.2 GT3s (one on Winters). They are fantastic cars, a special experience every time and I would never go back to a vanilla 911. They only see the road as I prefer racing to trackdaysandywalton said:
Porsche911R said:
Go for a test drive post back if you see red line in 3rd.
Like many have said inc me the cars makes pretty stty fun road cars imo. the other 50% will say it's a great road car. (the guy at 3k revs pottering about on a jolly nice day out)
you really need a set of shocks and a short final drive, but people only buy trinckets to pose about in on PH it seems.
Not sure about empty barrels or full ones, many of use here have owned and sold the cars on quite a few Cayman R owners are ex 996 GT3 owners.
early GT3's a nice car if you inject some money to tweak it, but it's not cheap.
Interesting ... I currently have a 987 Cayman S and a 986 Boxster S but I feel I need to scratch the 911 itch. The Cayman would therefore make way as I can't justify having another weekend car. I was looking at the cheaper of the two currently available CSR cars and thinking I could do something similar with a C2S. I know it won't have the engine but it could be 9x% of the GT3 and better suited to the road?Like many have said inc me the cars makes pretty s
tty fun road cars imo. the other 50% will say it's a great road car. (the guy at 3k revs pottering about on a jolly nice day out)you really need a set of shocks and a short final drive, but people only buy trinckets to pose about in on PH it seems.
Not sure about empty barrels or full ones, many of use here have owned and sold the cars on quite a few Cayman R owners are ex 996 GT3 owners.
early GT3's a nice car if you inject some money to tweak it, but it's not cheap.
But I digress. Ride quality ? Very much dependent on make and type of the tyres and the age of the dampers, but also how the car’s been used, the ride heights and its geo set up.
A Mk 1 with tired dampers on original Michelin Pilot PS2s, lowered beyond the recommended minimum ride heights and running a lot of camber will not be particularly nice to drive on the road. Actually, that’s an understatement.
The same car with freshly refurbed dampers, new springs, sensible ride heights, Cup 2’s and a more road biased geo, will be wonderfully compliant. Chris W’s car (pictures of which the freshly refurbed suspension he’s posted on the last page of the “996 GT3 FS” thread) will drive beautifully and provide a pleasant balance between compliance and a drive considerably more focused than the equivalent C2/4.
Ultimately only you will know whether they float your boat or not, but I’d suggest you drive plenty of cars (not ideal at this time of year and the unprecedented situation we find ourselves in) but how they drive can vary massively, so if you should find yourself driving a poor example, don’t give up before trying at least a couple of others.
Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 17th December 19:49
andywalton said:
Certainly in the market ... just not exactly sure for what though. The challenge is that I have never driven a GT3 - in fact I've not driven a 996. It's more important to me that I want to drive it on the road rather than the track. I tweaked my Elise 135R back in the day - Nitrons, DVA head work, AO48Rs, etc. and it was brilliant on track but it used to try to spit me off B roads.
I know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
its all rather moot into you get into one and only then you can decide if its what you want/need. i took mine out for an mot today and it annoyed the hell out of me. at the same time, i know on another day and another route, i would have loved it. i also have a couple of nice motorcycles so the gt3 will never scare me as much as the bikes do nor will it offer the big thrills a bike can but i know i love owning it. i guess for me at least there's more to owning it than driving bitI know that certain dealers just throw you the keys and tell you to come back when you've had enough. Others have a prescribed 5 minute route where you can not get above 40 miles an hour. There's a few cars at dealers close to me I will see if I can get some appointments booked for next week.
I did see the JZM blue one ... I do like that colour and with a wheel colour change it would look very nice. There's comments elsewhere that it has had some rear repair work which might put me off that one.
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