996 C4S or Turbo
Discussion
My current object of desire is a 996 C4S, although I have just been offered a 996 Turbo.
Have owned 3 Porsches previously, Boxster, Cayman S, 997 C2S Cab, which all were a while ago.
Have always desired the 996 C4S, a great looking bit of kit, but have now been tempted with the Turbo.
This car is going to be a daily driver, only about 15-20KM, I moved to Europe 3 months ago. Yes, complex with covid.
Would love to hears thoughts on either car, plus manual or auto, running costs, etc
A friend mine had a bad experience with a tiptronic box, but I have a feeling that was a poorly maintained car he went cheap.
I am aware of the IMS/RMS issue on the 996 and that you don't have that with the turbo.
Thanks!
Have owned 3 Porsches previously, Boxster, Cayman S, 997 C2S Cab, which all were a while ago.
Have always desired the 996 C4S, a great looking bit of kit, but have now been tempted with the Turbo.
This car is going to be a daily driver, only about 15-20KM, I moved to Europe 3 months ago. Yes, complex with covid.
Would love to hears thoughts on either car, plus manual or auto, running costs, etc
A friend mine had a bad experience with a tiptronic box, but I have a feeling that was a poorly maintained car he went cheap.
I am aware of the IMS/RMS issue on the 996 and that you don't have that with the turbo.
Thanks!
They are very different cars.
If tiptronic, i'd avoid the C4S as I found it didn't work very well as a sports car with that box - I've only driven one so perhaps not a huge sample, but I ended up with the manual and loved it. On the other hand, the torque of the turbo suits the tiptronic far better, and the engine is bulet proof but of course the turbo ancillaries can be costly when they need replacing.
Purely because it's what I did, manual C4S every time. It just has the best ass in the business and will be cheaper to own by a long way.
Clearly i'm ignoring the DD requirements and the annual mileage bit, whether either is really suited to DD duties is debatable when you start racking up 20k's a year on them.
If tiptronic, i'd avoid the C4S as I found it didn't work very well as a sports car with that box - I've only driven one so perhaps not a huge sample, but I ended up with the manual and loved it. On the other hand, the torque of the turbo suits the tiptronic far better, and the engine is bulet proof but of course the turbo ancillaries can be costly when they need replacing.
Purely because it's what I did, manual C4S every time. It just has the best ass in the business and will be cheaper to own by a long way.
Clearly i'm ignoring the DD requirements and the annual mileage bit, whether either is really suited to DD duties is debatable when you start racking up 20k's a year on them.
Running a 996T daily, is going to ££ cost you lots unless you can maintain it yourself. Labour costs will be High, if you have to farm it out and parts are not cheap.
I was on the hunt for a manual version ( cannot comment on an auto as don’t like autos ) and very nearly bought one, just over a year ago.
We went all over the country, viewing cars, then nights in hotels and then setting off to view the next one, we looked @ Lots and there are some very poor / ££ over priced ones out there.
Shocked @ what we found.
I did eventually find one, an X50, that ticked most of the boxes. I made the seller a more than reasonable offer, but he turned it down. With hindsight I’m glad he did after the current Covid nightmare. I just could not have that kind of money, tied up in a car, that would not be a daily driver.
However, it turned out the seller sold it for just £2,500 more than I offered. Curious re who bought it, I’ve tracked down the new owner. He has had to replace Both of the turbos, just over £2,000 quids worth ( did it himself though, with obviously a huge saving in labour costs )
I have run three 911s as daily’s, driven lots more ( the highlight being a lovely LHD German market, black metalic 964 Turbo, that I really should have bought - I am Still kicking myself over that car now ! ) and have covered many miles in them.
However, I did find the Turbo a tad dull / uninvolving to drive, after the rear drive 911s. Which of course is down to its 4wd and the turbo cars greater weight.
After a long test drive in it and then an hour later, jumping into my “ tweaked “ Griff, I thought to myself, “ why spend another circa £17 grand - plus a few more grand for parts etc, that it will no doubt need - on top of what the Griff is worth ? “
I do really like the Turbo and will own one, in the future, but il probably source one in Europe. Personally, LHD is no problem to me, as my first 911 was LHD, plus I’ve had Corvettes, Camaro etc, but I do understand that many buyers do not like LHD. European sold cars will also be much better preserved than a car that has lived its life on Britain’s damp / soggy and salt laden roads.
Taking a risk with a 4S, would be my choice as a daily, lots to choose from and of course a lot cheaper than a turbo.
I was on the hunt for a manual version ( cannot comment on an auto as don’t like autos ) and very nearly bought one, just over a year ago.
We went all over the country, viewing cars, then nights in hotels and then setting off to view the next one, we looked @ Lots and there are some very poor / ££ over priced ones out there.
Shocked @ what we found.
I did eventually find one, an X50, that ticked most of the boxes. I made the seller a more than reasonable offer, but he turned it down. With hindsight I’m glad he did after the current Covid nightmare. I just could not have that kind of money, tied up in a car, that would not be a daily driver.
However, it turned out the seller sold it for just £2,500 more than I offered. Curious re who bought it, I’ve tracked down the new owner. He has had to replace Both of the turbos, just over £2,000 quids worth ( did it himself though, with obviously a huge saving in labour costs )
I have run three 911s as daily’s, driven lots more ( the highlight being a lovely LHD German market, black metalic 964 Turbo, that I really should have bought - I am Still kicking myself over that car now ! ) and have covered many miles in them.
However, I did find the Turbo a tad dull / uninvolving to drive, after the rear drive 911s. Which of course is down to its 4wd and the turbo cars greater weight.
After a long test drive in it and then an hour later, jumping into my “ tweaked “ Griff, I thought to myself, “ why spend another circa £17 grand - plus a few more grand for parts etc, that it will no doubt need - on top of what the Griff is worth ? “
I do really like the Turbo and will own one, in the future, but il probably source one in Europe. Personally, LHD is no problem to me, as my first 911 was LHD, plus I’ve had Corvettes, Camaro etc, but I do understand that many buyers do not like LHD. European sold cars will also be much better preserved than a car that has lived its life on Britain’s damp / soggy and salt laden roads.
Taking a risk with a 4S, would be my choice as a daily, lots to choose from and of course a lot cheaper than a turbo.
Edited by neutral 3 on Tuesday 5th January 13:57
Edited by neutral 3 on Thursday 7th January 02:12
I bought a 996 C4S last summer, I waited for one to come up with an engine rebuild and its a fantastic car, easily fast and practical enough for everyday driving. Even with the rebuild and other work before I bought it there are still a lot of things to do. I had to get the callipers rebuilt, crank position sensor replaced and wiper/indicator stalks replaced, so about £2k down in 6 months, still need to get the starter cables replaced as its troublesome to start when warm.
Its easily the most enjoyable car I have ever driven, the grip is tremendous, and the sound from the NA engine is superb.
If you do get one look for the following to have been done
Rads/hoses
Front suspension
Engine rebuild or IMS done and check for bore scoring
Exhaust back boxes
Starter motor/alternator+ cables
Can the brakes be bled or are the nipples ceased
I do think a well specced one in manual with sunroof delete will appreciate over the next few years.
Its easily the most enjoyable car I have ever driven, the grip is tremendous, and the sound from the NA engine is superb.
If you do get one look for the following to have been done
Rads/hoses
Front suspension
Engine rebuild or IMS done and check for bore scoring
Exhaust back boxes
Starter motor/alternator+ cables
Can the brakes be bled or are the nipples ceased
I do think a well specced one in manual with sunroof delete will appreciate over the next few years.
djglover said:
I bought a 996 C4S last summer, I waited for one to come up with an engine rebuild and its a fantastic car, easily fast and practical enough for everyday driving. Even with the rebuild and other work before I bought it there are still a lot of things to do. I had to get the callipers rebuilt, crank position sensor replaced and wiper/indicator stalks replaced, so about £2k down in 6 months, still need to get the starter cables replaced as its troublesome to start when warm.
Its easily the most enjoyable car I have ever driven, the grip is tremendous, and the sound from the NA engine is superb.
If you do get one look for the following to have been done
Rads/hoses
Front suspension
Engine rebuild or IMS done and check for bore scoring
Exhaust back boxes
Starter motor/alternator+ cables
Can the brakes be bled or are the nipples ceased
I do think a well specced one in manual with sunroof delete will appreciate over the next few years.
I agree with you, but why the sunroof delete? I think as a road car I would specifically WANT a sunroof for the sound they make.Its easily the most enjoyable car I have ever driven, the grip is tremendous, and the sound from the NA engine is superb.
If you do get one look for the following to have been done
Rads/hoses
Front suspension
Engine rebuild or IMS done and check for bore scoring
Exhaust back boxes
Starter motor/alternator+ cables
Can the brakes be bled or are the nipples ceased
I do think a well specced one in manual with sunroof delete will appreciate over the next few years.
chappardababbar said:
I agree with you, but why the sunroof delete? I think as a road car I would specifically WANT a sunroof for the sound they make.
People get all obsessive with buying a non-sunroof car because race cars don't have sunroofs, and non-sunroof is fractionally lighter, stiffer shell etc etc.In reality the supposed benefit of a non-sunroof shell is outweighted approximately 1 million to one by how lovely it is to drive around with a sun-roof open.
I cannot imagine the OP is buying a 996 Turbo in order to eek out the final millisecond on a track day either!
15 months into manual 996 turbo ownership - it’s absolutely magnificent and my own daily
Not more expensive to run than my 996c2 TBH - the bits that are more expensive (brakes etc) are all shared with a C4S anyway, plus I have an engine I don’t have to worry about
If you can afford the turbo, buy one - fair chance the turbos already replaced, just check the history and buy from a reputable dealer or keen enthusiast
Not more expensive to run than my 996c2 TBH - the bits that are more expensive (brakes etc) are all shared with a C4S anyway, plus I have an engine I don’t have to worry about
If you can afford the turbo, buy one - fair chance the turbos already replaced, just check the history and buy from a reputable dealer or keen enthusiast
snotrag said:
People get all obsessive with buying a non-sunroof car because race cars don't have sunroofs, and non-sunroof is fractionally lighter, stiffer shell etc etc.
In reality the supposed benefit of a non-sunroof shell is outweighted approximately 1 million to one by how lovely it is to drive around with a sun-roof open.
I cannot imagine the OP is buying a 996 Turbo in order to eek out the final millisecond on a track day either!
Non sunroof car for me, if possible, but most U.K. 911s are specced with one. Had way too much agg in the past with numerous sun roof cars. Replaced the cables in one of my 911s in the past. It wasn’t hard to do, though. In reality the supposed benefit of a non-sunroof shell is outweighted approximately 1 million to one by how lovely it is to drive around with a sun-roof open.
I cannot imagine the OP is buying a 996 Turbo in order to eek out the final millisecond on a track day either!
Hated the awful glass sunroof in my lovely E46 M3.
Early U.K. supplied 911s, came with a sun roof as part of the U.K. package. European and US buyers had to pay extra.
Owned a manual 996 turbo x50 since 2012.
The C4S rear does look fantastic with that rear reflector (even as a Cab), it's probably the best looking 996. Being wide body is does have a unique look but is heavier than a narrow-bodied 996 which saps performance.
The C4S does share many parts with the turbo e.g. brakes etc but you don't get the bulletproof engine (look at the turbo with 300k+ miles).
Running costs on the turbo are fine for a performance car. The 996 n/a engine has well known reliability issues (in C2, C4 and C4S) which could result in a rebuild which has far bigger cost and risk on running or reselling a n/a 996 in my eyes.
The 996 turbo performance is well known to be in another league and it's wet weather ability is staggering.
It may not be as razor sharp as a GT3, but it's sharper and rawer than 99% of other cars on the road.
No right or wrongs, I'd suggest driving both any you'll know which you want.
The C4S rear does look fantastic with that rear reflector (even as a Cab), it's probably the best looking 996. Being wide body is does have a unique look but is heavier than a narrow-bodied 996 which saps performance.
The C4S does share many parts with the turbo e.g. brakes etc but you don't get the bulletproof engine (look at the turbo with 300k+ miles).
Running costs on the turbo are fine for a performance car. The 996 n/a engine has well known reliability issues (in C2, C4 and C4S) which could result in a rebuild which has far bigger cost and risk on running or reselling a n/a 996 in my eyes.
The 996 turbo performance is well known to be in another league and it's wet weather ability is staggering.
It may not be as razor sharp as a GT3, but it's sharper and rawer than 99% of other cars on the road.
No right or wrongs, I'd suggest driving both any you'll know which you want.
Thanks for all the updates, very much appreciated.
I wanted the 4 wheel drive, so it would have to be the 4s or Turbo as they have the facelift, it snows every winter where I am now.
15-20KM is the daily use, so not too worried about racking up mileage, but may take the longer route sometimes just to open it up.
From what I am hearing, make sure mechanically the car is sound, take extra care if its a 4S.As both can be great cars.
And, if I want a bit of extra spice go with the turbo.
Once again many thanks.
Wishing all a great 2021.
I wanted the 4 wheel drive, so it would have to be the 4s or Turbo as they have the facelift, it snows every winter where I am now.
15-20KM is the daily use, so not too worried about racking up mileage, but may take the longer route sometimes just to open it up.
From what I am hearing, make sure mechanically the car is sound, take extra care if its a 4S.As both can be great cars.
And, if I want a bit of extra spice go with the turbo.
Once again many thanks.
Wishing all a great 2021.
If you are thinking the VC system in the 996 is gonna help you much in snow think again !! The 997.2 PTM 4wd system is far superior if traction is your goal.
The 996 VC gives the car a more natural at the limit feel than PTM however imv but it is much slower to react than PTM in poor low speed weather conditions
The 996 VC gives the car a more natural at the limit feel than PTM however imv but it is much slower to react than PTM in poor low speed weather conditions
I had a turbo (briefly) and now have a C4. I feel like I get to use and enjoy more of the NA car more of the time plus it makes a much, much better noise. The main noise in the turbo was that of a Dyson hand dryer.
I was sucked into the idea of always aspiring to the quickest, most powerful version. With the 911 (996 anyway) the turbo is like a completely different car and just not for me.
I was sucked into the idea of always aspiring to the quickest, most powerful version. With the 911 (996 anyway) the turbo is like a completely different car and just not for me.
nunpuncher said:
I had a turbo (briefly) and now have a C4. I feel like I get to use and enjoy more of the NA car more of the time plus it makes a much, much better noise. The main noise in the turbo was that of a Dyson hand dryer.
I was sucked into the idea of always aspiring to the quickest, most powerful version. With the 911 (996 anyway) the turbo is like a completely different car and just not for me.
You must have had a poor car as I'd no idea what you're talking about re "Dyson hand dryer".I was sucked into the idea of always aspiring to the quickest, most powerful version. With the 911 (996 anyway) the turbo is like a completely different car and just not for me.
I'd suggest the OP tries both. The n/a car will sound louder (but be slower), the 996 turbo is quieter (but lightyears quicker) and certainly isn't quiet plus doesn't sound like a Dyson.
Mr Beetroot said:
My current object of desire is a 996 C4S, although I have just been offered a 996 Turbo.
Have owned 3 Porsches previously, Boxster, Cayman S, 997 C2S Cab, which all were a while ago.
Have always desired the 996 C4S, a great looking bit of kit, but have now been tempted with the Turbo.
This car is going to be a daily driver, only about 15-20KM, I moved to Europe 3 months ago. Yes, complex with covid.
Would love to hears thoughts on either car, plus manual or auto, running costs, etc
A friend mine had a bad experience with a tiptronic box, but I have a feeling that was a poorly maintained car he went cheap.
I am aware of the IMS/RMS issue on the 996 and that you don't have that with the turbo.
Thanks!
I’ve had both ,no comparison the 996tt is an amazing car,probably best car Ive had ,I had it chipped by DMS which took it to a new level too...also mechanically stronger than the c4s engine wise.Have owned 3 Porsches previously, Boxster, Cayman S, 997 C2S Cab, which all were a while ago.
Have always desired the 996 C4S, a great looking bit of kit, but have now been tempted with the Turbo.
This car is going to be a daily driver, only about 15-20KM, I moved to Europe 3 months ago. Yes, complex with covid.
Would love to hears thoughts on either car, plus manual or auto, running costs, etc
A friend mine had a bad experience with a tiptronic box, but I have a feeling that was a poorly maintained car he went cheap.
I am aware of the IMS/RMS issue on the 996 and that you don't have that with the turbo.
Thanks!
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