Track Day Instruction
Discussion
I bought a 991.2 GT3 at the end of last year and plan on doing a few track days this year. Ive only done one track day in recent years, that was SIlverstone and it was unbelievable busy on track (open pit) never really got going.
Can anyone recomend which track day organiser has the best reputation for limiting numbers to a sensible level and are there tracks to avoid if you want to avoid overcrowding?
Also I want to get a full days instruction, one to one in my own car, do I have to do this through the organiser or can anyone recommend a good instructor that I can hire privately? Next day out will probably be Donnington.
Can anyone recomend which track day organiser has the best reputation for limiting numbers to a sensible level and are there tracks to avoid if you want to avoid overcrowding?
Also I want to get a full days instruction, one to one in my own car, do I have to do this through the organiser or can anyone recommend a good instructor that I can hire privately? Next day out will probably be Donnington.
You could try Gary Marsh at A Need for Speed. Lots of Porsche GT3 experience, patient, flexible and easy going. Try PCGB as an organiser. Their days are likely to fill up in 2021 due to people wanting to get back out and be doing stuff. But in my experience the driving at PCGB days is considerate, and you tend not to have the mis-match of car types and race testing that you can get at other days. As for circuits, Goodwood often works to a limit of 5 cars on track at any one time, which will let you feel you have the track more or less to yourself. And Silverstone is wide, so it is easier to stay out of the way of faster cars. Oulton Park is a challenging and exciting circuit, but unforgiving if you are just starting out, so I would put that one on the list for a future year. Cadwell and Blyton are a bit too tight for a GT3. Donington is great if you can get through the picky noise restrictions and you don't mind the rutted access roads (both of which annoy me, especially the noise restrictions given that it is just over the fence from East Midlands airport). Brands Hatch GP is epic, but most days tend to use the shorter Indy (?) circuit. Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
whj said:
I bought a 991.2 GT3 at the end of last year and plan on doing a few track days this year. Ive only done one track day in recent years, that was SIlverstone and it was unbelievable busy on track (open pit) never really got going.
Can anyone recomend which track day organiser has the best reputation for limiting numbers to a sensible level and are there tracks to avoid if you want to avoid overcrowding?
Also I want to get a full days instruction, one to one in my own car, do I have to do this through the organiser or can anyone recommend a good instructor that I can hire privately? Next day out will probably be Donnington.
Rule of thumb is the more you pay the quieter it is. If its cheap then the TDO have to fill it to make money.Can anyone recomend which track day organiser has the best reputation for limiting numbers to a sensible level and are there tracks to avoid if you want to avoid overcrowding?
Also I want to get a full days instruction, one to one in my own car, do I have to do this through the organiser or can anyone recommend a good instructor that I can hire privately? Next day out will probably be Donnington.
Greystones are quiet but you'll pay for it.
I won't do another evening as most are rammed start to finish as everyone wants their money worth from the little available time and there seem to be a greater number of red flags and track closures as drivers drive beyond their limits more.
Days either side of peak season are also quieter though you are at greater risk of adverse weather. I like a cold wet track day so doesn't bother me anymore. Used to but not now.
The end of a day also tends to be quiet, particularly the last hour, so stay on and make the most of a relatively empty track whilst most pack up and go home. Better turn up an hour later and leave an hour later so avoiding the track opening rush.
Or negate the above and pay more for a limited number day.
I haven't been to too many other tracks in recent years, but our day at Goodwood is organised as above - pit is controlled (we get PCGB to do it for us) with very low numbers on track at any time, each car sent out at intervals.
That might seem like you won't have enough track time, but you will - there's time to recover and if you have your own instructor, time to discuss things before your next slot.
Goodwood is IMO an underrated circuit - it's very fast, but that doesn't mean it's an easy oval with a kink in it.
That might seem like you won't have enough track time, but you will - there's time to recover and if you have your own instructor, time to discuss things before your next slot.
Goodwood is IMO an underrated circuit - it's very fast, but that doesn't mean it's an easy oval with a kink in it.
i started doing track days couple of years ago and also wanted instruction as starting from scratch. Wanting to become a better driver and having very limited available time for the track the cost is worth it to me.
Here is my experience:
1. Track days
- PCGB track days are very civilised, less busy, with generally slower drivers. definitly a plus when you are sarting out. Downside is they are also very friednly and social so if you are wth a coach all day you might be missing out on that aspect. There is usually a mechanic on hand (Paul from Parr each time i've been) which is great for advice on tyre pressure and other stuff you have no idea about when you start
- Some of th MSV track days can be super busy with all sorts from hot-hatch-heros to race cars. Some of the agressive drivers in cheap cars are dangerous
2. instruction
-did my first day at brands with MSV and took the full day instruction package. not cheap as i recall. instructor was a young racing driver (Jack Layton). Very hands on. Made my first day great fun, no stress, helped navigate trafic and learn the lines and basics of weight transfer etc
- went to oulton park and did a search for an ARDS instructor online, shot a few emails out. Ended booking the day with a chap called Tim, older gentleman who was a single seater racing driver many years ago - very competitive price (think it was around £150 for the full day coaching). Very different style to Jack - more laid back, less talking in the car and let me get on with it a bit more with debriefs in the pits. I was a lot more confident by then and it worked really well for that day. Also a really nice chap. Turns out i had an issue with the car that day (alternator bearing started to disintegrate) and he got his friends from a local racing team to look at the car, waited for the AA with me for absolutely ages and then dropped me at the train station – so he absolutely saved the day! Very relaxed coaching and it was like having a more experienced friend coming along with you and helping you out.
- did another day at brands with Jack. This time booked direct with him. He had full camera and vbox set up. Really pushes you, very hands on coaching (constantly giving inputs). Analysis on computer in the pits. I spun once and also went off limits. Lots and lots of fun, very valuable, feel I learnt a lot. Felt like an intense training academy. Polar opposite of the day with Tim at oulton.
- did Goodwood with the Porsche club and had a 20mn session with the local instructor. Was enough, and prior instruction gave me confidence being alone in the car for the day. I feel that being alone in the car is also important and you don’t want to be coached all the time
- my conclusions: full day coaching is great. Find someone who suits your style as there is a broad range. I can imagine how someone you don’t gel with would ruin the day.. But also don’t overdo the coaching. Make sure you spend some time alone at the wheel
Here is my experience:
1. Track days
- PCGB track days are very civilised, less busy, with generally slower drivers. definitly a plus when you are sarting out. Downside is they are also very friednly and social so if you are wth a coach all day you might be missing out on that aspect. There is usually a mechanic on hand (Paul from Parr each time i've been) which is great for advice on tyre pressure and other stuff you have no idea about when you start
- Some of th MSV track days can be super busy with all sorts from hot-hatch-heros to race cars. Some of the agressive drivers in cheap cars are dangerous
2. instruction
-did my first day at brands with MSV and took the full day instruction package. not cheap as i recall. instructor was a young racing driver (Jack Layton). Very hands on. Made my first day great fun, no stress, helped navigate trafic and learn the lines and basics of weight transfer etc
- went to oulton park and did a search for an ARDS instructor online, shot a few emails out. Ended booking the day with a chap called Tim, older gentleman who was a single seater racing driver many years ago - very competitive price (think it was around £150 for the full day coaching). Very different style to Jack - more laid back, less talking in the car and let me get on with it a bit more with debriefs in the pits. I was a lot more confident by then and it worked really well for that day. Also a really nice chap. Turns out i had an issue with the car that day (alternator bearing started to disintegrate) and he got his friends from a local racing team to look at the car, waited for the AA with me for absolutely ages and then dropped me at the train station – so he absolutely saved the day! Very relaxed coaching and it was like having a more experienced friend coming along with you and helping you out.
- did another day at brands with Jack. This time booked direct with him. He had full camera and vbox set up. Really pushes you, very hands on coaching (constantly giving inputs). Analysis on computer in the pits. I spun once and also went off limits. Lots and lots of fun, very valuable, feel I learnt a lot. Felt like an intense training academy. Polar opposite of the day with Tim at oulton.
- did Goodwood with the Porsche club and had a 20mn session with the local instructor. Was enough, and prior instruction gave me confidence being alone in the car for the day. I feel that being alone in the car is also important and you don’t want to be coached all the time
- my conclusions: full day coaching is great. Find someone who suits your style as there is a broad range. I can imagine how someone you don’t gel with would ruin the day.. But also don’t overdo the coaching. Make sure you spend some time alone at the wheel
james.a.c.911 said:
i started doing track days couple of years ago and also wanted instruction as starting from scratch. Wanting to become a better driver and having very limited available time for the track the cost is worth it to me.
Here is my experience:
1. Track days
- PCGB track days are very civilised, less busy, with generally slower drivers. definitly a plus when you are sarting out. Downside is they are also very friednly and social so if you are wth a coach all day you might be missing out on that aspect. There is usually a mechanic on hand (Paul from Parr each time i've been) which is great for advice on tyre pressure and other stuff you have no idea about when you start
- Some of th MSV track days can be super busy with all sorts from hot-hatch-heros to race cars. Some of the agressive drivers in cheap cars are dangerous
2. instruction
-did my first day at brands with MSV and took the full day instruction package. not cheap as i recall. instructor was a young racing driver (Jack Layton). Very hands on. Made my first day great fun, no stress, helped navigate trafic and learn the lines and basics of weight transfer etc
- went to oulton park and did a search for an ARDS instructor online, shot a few emails out. Ended booking the day with a chap called Tim, older gentleman who was a single seater racing driver many years ago - very competitive price (think it was around £150 for the full day coaching). Very different style to Jack - more laid back, less talking in the car and let me get on with it a bit more with debriefs in the pits. I was a lot more confident by then and it worked really well for that day. Also a really nice chap. Turns out i had an issue with the car that day (alternator bearing started to disintegrate) and he got his friends from a local racing team to look at the car, waited for the AA with me for absolutely ages and then dropped me at the train station – so he absolutely saved the day! Very relaxed coaching and it was like having a more experienced friend coming along with you and helping you out.
- did another day at brands with Jack. This time booked direct with him. He had full camera and vbox set up. Really pushes you, very hands on coaching (constantly giving inputs). Analysis on computer in the pits. I spun once and also went off limits. Lots and lots of fun, very valuable, feel I learnt a lot. Felt like an intense training academy. Polar opposite of the day with Tim at oulton.
- did Goodwood with the Porsche club and had a 20mn session with the local instructor. Was enough, and prior instruction gave me confidence being alone in the car for the day. I feel that being alone in the car is also important and you don’t want to be coached all the time
- my conclusions: full day coaching is great. Find someone who suits your style as there is a broad range. I can imagine how someone you don’t gel with would ruin the day.. But also don’t overdo the coaching. Make sure you spend some time alone at the wheel
Thanks for this, I'm considering doing a track day or 2 in the near future and was wondering about the best way of going about it.Here is my experience:
1. Track days
- PCGB track days are very civilised, less busy, with generally slower drivers. definitly a plus when you are sarting out. Downside is they are also very friednly and social so if you are wth a coach all day you might be missing out on that aspect. There is usually a mechanic on hand (Paul from Parr each time i've been) which is great for advice on tyre pressure and other stuff you have no idea about when you start
- Some of th MSV track days can be super busy with all sorts from hot-hatch-heros to race cars. Some of the agressive drivers in cheap cars are dangerous
2. instruction
-did my first day at brands with MSV and took the full day instruction package. not cheap as i recall. instructor was a young racing driver (Jack Layton). Very hands on. Made my first day great fun, no stress, helped navigate trafic and learn the lines and basics of weight transfer etc
- went to oulton park and did a search for an ARDS instructor online, shot a few emails out. Ended booking the day with a chap called Tim, older gentleman who was a single seater racing driver many years ago - very competitive price (think it was around £150 for the full day coaching). Very different style to Jack - more laid back, less talking in the car and let me get on with it a bit more with debriefs in the pits. I was a lot more confident by then and it worked really well for that day. Also a really nice chap. Turns out i had an issue with the car that day (alternator bearing started to disintegrate) and he got his friends from a local racing team to look at the car, waited for the AA with me for absolutely ages and then dropped me at the train station – so he absolutely saved the day! Very relaxed coaching and it was like having a more experienced friend coming along with you and helping you out.
- did another day at brands with Jack. This time booked direct with him. He had full camera and vbox set up. Really pushes you, very hands on coaching (constantly giving inputs). Analysis on computer in the pits. I spun once and also went off limits. Lots and lots of fun, very valuable, feel I learnt a lot. Felt like an intense training academy. Polar opposite of the day with Tim at oulton.
- did Goodwood with the Porsche club and had a 20mn session with the local instructor. Was enough, and prior instruction gave me confidence being alone in the car for the day. I feel that being alone in the car is also important and you don’t want to be coached all the time
- my conclusions: full day coaching is great. Find someone who suits your style as there is a broad range. I can imagine how someone you don’t gel with would ruin the day.. But also don’t overdo the coaching. Make sure you spend some time alone at the wheel
FWIW a couple of points/thoughts.
1.) I'd agree regarding PCGB events being civilised.
2.) Instruction on track, for me, is a bit like ski instruction. I find a whole day a bit much and that it actually helps to have some solo time to assimilate and try things out. One thing I have done in the past is shared an instructor with one or two other drivers, so it spreads costs and allows you some free time.
1.) I'd agree regarding PCGB events being civilised.
2.) Instruction on track, for me, is a bit like ski instruction. I find a whole day a bit much and that it actually helps to have some solo time to assimilate and try things out. One thing I have done in the past is shared an instructor with one or two other drivers, so it spreads costs and allows you some free time.
My advice would be to go to a circuit with a decent amount of run off on each corner - Silverstone GP or Bedford GP are ideal. If you get it wrong, you are unlikely to hit anything. Avoid circuits like Goodwood, Cadwell or oulton park. If you get it wrong there it could end up a bad day out. get it wrong at Goodwood and it could be a lot worse.
Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
Steve Rance said:
My advice would be to go to a circuit with a decent amount of run off on each corner - Silverstone GP or Bedford GP are ideal. If you get it wrong, you are unlikely to hit anything. Avoid circuits like Goodwood, Cadwell or oulton park. If you get it wrong there it could end up a bad day out. get it wrong at Goodwood and it could be a lot worse.
Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
Very sound advice re ""run off"" Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
My buddy said Bedford is ideal for a beginner.
Digga said:
FWIW a couple of points/thoughts.
2.) Instruction on track, for me, is a bit like ski instruction. I find a whole day a bit much and that it actually helps to have some solo time to assimilate and try things out. One thing I have done in the past is shared an instructor with one or two other drivers, so it spreads costs and allows you some free time.
Definitely agree with this. A full day can get a little overwhelming and I've usually tried to split the day with a friend if possible.2.) Instruction on track, for me, is a bit like ski instruction. I find a whole day a bit much and that it actually helps to have some solo time to assimilate and try things out. One thing I have done in the past is shared an instructor with one or two other drivers, so it spreads costs and allows you some free time.
Steve Rance said:
My advice would be to go to a circuit with a decent amount of run off on each corner - Silverstone GP or Bedford GP are ideal. If you get it wrong, you are unlikely to hit anything. Avoid circuits like Goodwood, Cadwell or oulton park. If you get it wrong there it could end up a bad day out. get it wrong at Goodwood and it could be a lot worse.
Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
I would have assumed most experienced folks will have 911 driving experience (was the case for the two i spent time with) but certainly a good shout nad i'll keep that in mind next time i book someone. both instructors i used talked at length of how 911 are particlar to drive, keeping the weight on the nose coming in to corners, etc.Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
i can't wait to get on a track day and DIgga's idea of sharing an instructor sounds like a great cost effective option. As a novice i really enjoyed Goodwood and can see how it could get sketchy - same for Oulton really.
As i've said before PCGB days are great for first time, social and just fun.
You have a very wide range of skill sets and lots of different types of car.... and people there for different purposes..
Some people are there to drive their car over 70mph legally... on a 'sunday-drive' with the roof down
Some people are there to lap as quickly as possible.(No timing of course!)
Some people like to ducks and drakes/dogfight...with mates.
The issue is then that all of these people are out on track as the same time which can sometime cause frustrations for all.
Everyone is generally nice - but not aways watching the mirrors or understand lines!
So like all driving - eyes open and drive to the conditions and what's happening around you - be prepared to back off to create space or take actions
A good instructor will help you to navigate all of this - and you may end up need to just break down your work into sectors or just focusing on a single corner for while to work on something specific and then move on, if conditions dictate that you cannot get a full lap together.
Like many have said - Goodwood, Oulton are great fun - but maybe a little spikey for an absolute beginner on their first day.
Somewhere like Silverstone is big/wide enough with enough run off that everyone has space to navigate and you won't hit anything or do damage if you fall off or need to take evasive action.
You have a very wide range of skill sets and lots of different types of car.... and people there for different purposes..
Some people are there to drive their car over 70mph legally... on a 'sunday-drive' with the roof down
Some people are there to lap as quickly as possible.(No timing of course!)
Some people like to ducks and drakes/dogfight...with mates.
The issue is then that all of these people are out on track as the same time which can sometime cause frustrations for all.
Everyone is generally nice - but not aways watching the mirrors or understand lines!
So like all driving - eyes open and drive to the conditions and what's happening around you - be prepared to back off to create space or take actions
A good instructor will help you to navigate all of this - and you may end up need to just break down your work into sectors or just focusing on a single corner for while to work on something specific and then move on, if conditions dictate that you cannot get a full lap together.
Like many have said - Goodwood, Oulton are great fun - but maybe a little spikey for an absolute beginner on their first day.
Somewhere like Silverstone is big/wide enough with enough run off that everyone has space to navigate and you won't hit anything or do damage if you fall off or need to take evasive action.
Edited by TDT on Thursday 11th February 12:12
I have done track days with various organisers over the years and have found PCGB to be the best by some margin. The driving standards are generally high and respectful and I have seen drivers who misbehave being sent home.
I would definitely recommend instruction - certainly if the circuit is new to you - as you will get so much more out of your day. I have never felt it necessary to have more than half a days instruction and if you have the time it's well worth waiting until later in the day as a lot of people tend to leave by 3pm. so you'll get more space on the circuit.
Have fun!
I would definitely recommend instruction - certainly if the circuit is new to you - as you will get so much more out of your day. I have never felt it necessary to have more than half a days instruction and if you have the time it's well worth waiting until later in the day as a lot of people tend to leave by 3pm. so you'll get more space on the circuit.
Have fun!
Steve Rance said:
My advice would be to go to a circuit with a decent amount of run off on each corner - Silverstone GP or Bedford GP are ideal. If you get it wrong, you are unlikely to hit anything. Avoid circuits like Goodwood, Cadwell or oulton park. If you get it wrong there it could end up a bad day out. get it wrong at Goodwood and it could be a lot worse.
Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
Steve, what is Donnington like as a track for a newcomer (in a 911)?Secondly, make sure that you use an instructor who has race experience in a 911. if they havent, you will probably be taught the usual brake in a straight line, turn in off the brakes and pick up the throttle after the apex routine. This is not the way to drive a 911 and you will end up having to cancell all that out of your brain and start again if you want to get it right.
Edited by Louis Balfour on Thursday 11th February 12:15
TDT said:
Like many have said - Goodwood, Oulton are great fun - but maybe a little spikey for an absolute beginner on their first day.
Somewhere like Silverstone is big/wide enough with enough run off that everyone has space to navigate and you won't hit anything or do damage if you fall off or need to take evasive action
Although everyone is not wrong in pointing out there is very little runoff at Goodwood, if you have an instructor with you there is not likely to be an issue. If you go out in the afternoon batsSomewhere like Silverstone is big/wide enough with enough run off that everyone has space to navigate and you won't hit anything or do damage if you fall off or need to take evasive action
t-crazy trying to prove something, then 
On the other hand yes Brands and Silverstone have massive runoffs (being F1/exF1) but they have massive amounts of deep kitty-litter, which will damage your car. I even saw one unfortunate put his car onto it's side as it dug into the litter sideways at Paddock Hill Bend.... just sayin'
Louis Balfour said:
Steve, what is Donnington like as a track for a newcomer (in a 911)?
IMHO it's a bit unusual/technical to work as a good basis for general track skills.It's a great track, but there are not too many easy corners with safe run off, and there are places where it can bite.
I am booked on a Greystone day this year...they aren’t cheap but you get what you pay for in terms of the track being quiet. I went to have a look at their Silverstone day last year and was impressed at a) the quality of cars/drivers and b) how quiet the track was. I doubt there were more than 10 or 15 cars on track at any one time.
You could do a lot worse than a Precision Day at the PEC to build up confidence. You have session on their tracks combined with time on the main circuit morning and afternoon. Last year their Covid friendly format was “follow the leader” so the instructor was in front of you...so instructor has their manual 991.2 GT3 and I followed in mine....they’re in contact via the radio. I’ll probably do another this year when they open up again.
I’ve also done work with an instructor at Milbrook and Bruntigthorpe, the latter was great for getting used to track cornering speeds and braking etc but it’s now shut.
I use the same PEC instructor for everything I’ve done which has been great, most of them work freelance too.
You could do a lot worse than a Precision Day at the PEC to build up confidence. You have session on their tracks combined with time on the main circuit morning and afternoon. Last year their Covid friendly format was “follow the leader” so the instructor was in front of you...so instructor has their manual 991.2 GT3 and I followed in mine....they’re in contact via the radio. I’ll probably do another this year when they open up again.
I’ve also done work with an instructor at Milbrook and Bruntigthorpe, the latter was great for getting used to track cornering speeds and braking etc but it’s now shut.
I use the same PEC instructor for everything I’ve done which has been great, most of them work freelance too.
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