Running costs, in terms of repairs
Discussion
As someone who regularly daydreams of owning a 911 (I'm 26) I can see a few come up in a price range that I would be able to afford.
Ignoring things like insurance and tax, how much does it cost to keep a 996 or a 997 Carrera 2 on the road? I'm thinking if something goes wrong.
Let's say for arguments sake that it's a car that has already had IMS bearing issues rectified, through an engine rebuild from Hartech or otherwise. What are some big bills that could pop up? I think they're the sort of things that would make me say, ok, I can afford this car, but I can't afford this car.
Ignoring things like insurance and tax, how much does it cost to keep a 996 or a 997 Carrera 2 on the road? I'm thinking if something goes wrong.
Let's say for arguments sake that it's a car that has already had IMS bearing issues rectified, through an engine rebuild from Hartech or otherwise. What are some big bills that could pop up? I think they're the sort of things that would make me say, ok, I can afford this car, but I can't afford this car.
The general consensus is that, in the long term (~5+ yrs) you're averaging around £2k/yr in maintenance. This would include servicing, consumables and general good upkeep.
For reference, I've owned my 997 for 9 years now and have averaged £1.5k/yr. This excludes things like bodywork / upgrades etc.
Obviouly factors such as your OCD levels, driving style, mileage and initial condition have a large bearing on the costs.
So many aggravating factors: how many miles per annum, will you maintain it yourself, will you drive it hard, will you want to upgrade the ageing suspension, attend to ageing paintwork, the list goes on.
BUT if you absolutely have a have 911 in you life then get one before they are legislated out of existence.
BUT if you absolutely have a have 911 in you life then get one before they are legislated out of existence.
RiccardoG said:
The general consensus is that, in the long term (~5+ yrs) you're averaging around £2k/yr in maintenance. This would include servicing, consumables and general good upkeep.
For reference, I've owned my 997 for 9 years now and have averaged £1.5k/yr. This excludes things like bodywork / upgrades etc.
Obviouly factors such as your OCD levels, driving style, mileage and initial condition have a large bearing on the costs.
Nice one, thanks. So I'm guessing a service will run, what, £4-500? A set of tyres will presumably be £5-700, assuming they 911 doesn't require some strange size. I currently run 225/35 R19 PS4Ss, and a set of those is about £650. I don't get through them in a year. Are you including fuel in that also? I haven't had my current car long enough to know how often things like brake discs etc need doing. I would say I drive reasonably hard, but I don't do track days etc. For reference, I've owned my 997 for 9 years now and have averaged £1.5k/yr. This excludes things like bodywork / upgrades etc.
Obviouly factors such as your OCD levels, driving style, mileage and initial condition have a large bearing on the costs.
I don't think 2k per year includes fuel as that would depend somewhat on how you drive
At the end of the day, these are old cars now and things can and do break. If you pay somebody else to do it, a 1k+ service is not unheard of. Add to that the potential for suspension parts to wear out, random bits to break, and consumables needing to be changed, and a bill can easily exceed 2k. The 2k number is an average not a limit.
I do my own work on the Porsche and the costs can still add up.
You shouldn't be put off but equally go in with your eyes open. This isn't a 3 year old Audi, it's a 10 year old plus Porsche
At the end of the day, these are old cars now and things can and do break. If you pay somebody else to do it, a 1k+ service is not unheard of. Add to that the potential for suspension parts to wear out, random bits to break, and consumables needing to be changed, and a bill can easily exceed 2k. The 2k number is an average not a limit.
I do my own work on the Porsche and the costs can still add up.
You shouldn't be put off but equally go in with your eyes open. This isn't a 3 year old Audi, it's a 10 year old plus Porsche
I’d say 2k/year is fair - some years less, some years more ... it’s not tyres etc that are expensive, it’s parts ... and they have a lot that need doing now and again
You might well get lucky, but I’d say if you budget for that and can afford it, you’ll be fine
When I bought my 996 turbo I put 250/month into a spare account so that it’s there when needed
You might well get lucky, but I’d say if you budget for that and can afford it, you’ll be fine
When I bought my 996 turbo I put 250/month into a spare account so that it’s there when needed
Not directly answering you question but...I had concerns over running costs so decided to purchase nearly new Porsche on PCP in order to know exactly what it would cost over an exact period. YMMV, but it afforded me an almost new vehicle, zero maintenance concerns as its not my only car, a full warranty for protection, and I know what its worth to Porsche at the end of the contract. WBAC etc value it much higher, so a decision will need to be made at the end of the term - go again, find something else etc.
Repeating what everyone else is saying and £2500 per annum is about right for a WELL MAINTAINED CAR. That last bit is important as 996’s and 997’s are getting old now so lots of parts will need replacing/refreshing. If you are used to mainstream part prices the cost of Porsche parts will come as a shock. The trick is to keep replacing parts as you go before you end up with a huge repair bill in one hit.
You will hear lots of people saying they have only ever had annual service costs but don’t buy a 911 off those people as they are just delaying the inevitable!
My 997 is over 13 years old now so that figure of £2000 per
Annum is starting to rise. Last year I spent £3500 and have already spent £1000 this year and expect at least another £2000. If you can do work yourself that will be help but bear in mind they get quite rusty underneath and a snapped bolt or stud can easily turn an easy job into a mammoth job - I know as I just did a water pump with 2 snapped studs!
I also haven’t had an engine rebuild yet so could get hit with a huge bill.
On the plus side it shouldn’t depreciate much if at all so that will offset the running costs.
If you are can accept that its going to cost way more than a ‘normal’ car to run then go for it.
You will hear lots of people saying they have only ever had annual service costs but don’t buy a 911 off those people as they are just delaying the inevitable!
My 997 is over 13 years old now so that figure of £2000 per
Annum is starting to rise. Last year I spent £3500 and have already spent £1000 this year and expect at least another £2000. If you can do work yourself that will be help but bear in mind they get quite rusty underneath and a snapped bolt or stud can easily turn an easy job into a mammoth job - I know as I just did a water pump with 2 snapped studs!
I also haven’t had an engine rebuild yet so could get hit with a huge bill.
On the plus side it shouldn’t depreciate much if at all so that will offset the running costs.
If you are can accept that its going to cost way more than a ‘normal’ car to run then go for it.
My 2003 996 C4 has cost an average £2.5k in maintenance over the last 7 years and 25k miles. It is serviced at a Porsche Indy, and I do some simple jobs myself.
I did have one 12 month period where it cost me £7k though....these are oldish high performance cars so you do need to be able to spend money on them when they need it.
I did have one 12 month period where it cost me £7k though....these are oldish high performance cars so you do need to be able to spend money on them when they need it.
And a small amount to deal with the unexpected.
My 996GT3 went for its annual service which actually came to under £500 including VAT as there was now't to do but change the oil.
Head honcho mentions that the very small oil leak at the front of the engine is getting a bit worse - shall we have a look and see what's what.
So they look. They can't tighten up the leaky union any more and suggest that the engine will have to come out to replace the pipe and this will cost but it will provide an opportunity deal with a few little things which are normally unreachable.
Being me, and fussy, I say Ok, go for it.
Well that service finally cost £5500 but the leak had gone and I got a nice shiny new ally suspension beam to replace one that fell apart when there was no engine to hold it together. Oh, and lots of fiddly litle bits and pieces too.
And that was on a well maintained car.
My 996GT3 went for its annual service which actually came to under £500 including VAT as there was now't to do but change the oil.
Head honcho mentions that the very small oil leak at the front of the engine is getting a bit worse - shall we have a look and see what's what.
So they look. They can't tighten up the leaky union any more and suggest that the engine will have to come out to replace the pipe and this will cost but it will provide an opportunity deal with a few little things which are normally unreachable.
Being me, and fussy, I say Ok, go for it.
Well that service finally cost £5500 but the leak had gone and I got a nice shiny new ally suspension beam to replace one that fell apart when there was no engine to hold it together. Oh, and lots of fiddly litle bits and pieces too.
And that was on a well maintained car.
Don’t buy a 996 or 997.1 Carrera is my advice.
Either stump for a 996 turbo, 997.2 carrera or if neither are in budget a 987.2 cayman. If you are worried about sudden big costs protect yourself by getting the most resilient Porsche you can.
I’d personally take a high mileage vanilla 2.7 987.2 cayman over say a low mileage 997.1C4S purely on the basis I wouldn’t be looking over my head waiting for IMS or bore scoring to occur (unless a full hartech rebuild was in the history)
Either stump for a 996 turbo, 997.2 carrera or if neither are in budget a 987.2 cayman. If you are worried about sudden big costs protect yourself by getting the most resilient Porsche you can.
I’d personally take a high mileage vanilla 2.7 987.2 cayman over say a low mileage 997.1C4S purely on the basis I wouldn’t be looking over my head waiting for IMS or bore scoring to occur (unless a full hartech rebuild was in the history)
Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 6th April 19:29
My 997t was immaculate, so all I had to do was maintain it, and it cost me about £2k PA over a 7 yr period (exc tax, insurance & fuel). I did everything possible to maintain its condition, and not let things wait, thus avoiding accumulating too many costly jobs at once! As a result it was easy to sell, and I sold for a price that reflected this.
I now have a 996 which I hope is mechanically excellent (I am working through the cosmetics), however it is a 17yr old car, so experience tells me there will always be something!
I will continue to budget £2k PA, and will only know for sure when eventually I sell!
I now have a 996 which I hope is mechanically excellent (I am working through the cosmetics), however it is a 17yr old car, so experience tells me there will always be something!
I will continue to budget £2k PA, and will only know for sure when eventually I sell!
I bought a 1999 996 8 years ago for £11k. Have done about 25k in that time and have averaged £2k per year on repairs and maintenance - most of that was on 2 big bills where lots needed done. Nothing spent on any engine work. This year will put the average up again as some rust bubbles have started on the front wings, air con isn’t holding gas and needs new manifolds. On the plus side, have enjoyed every mile and it’s not depreciated.
I would avoid any car without proof of continuous and recent spend. I didn’t find it to be a good daily driver in terms of practicality and it works better for me giving it a good drive a few times a month - I’d imagine costs would increase with more miles per year but not proportionately.
I’d advise any new owner to prioritise a suspension and bushings refresh for maximum enjoyment - if you drive one and aren’t impressed, it likely needs some work and that won’t be a small bill if you don’t commit to it fully. Lots of owners will do little bits of the suspension as they are needed but it’s only as good as it’s weakest component. The magic of a 911 is in the handling and tired cars are awful.
Depending on annual mileage I’d agree £2k a year would be about right using a good indy, excluding any engine disasters. It’s a good benchmark for any cars you look at - any that have had less than that spent, you’re more likely to be the one spending it.
I would avoid any car without proof of continuous and recent spend. I didn’t find it to be a good daily driver in terms of practicality and it works better for me giving it a good drive a few times a month - I’d imagine costs would increase with more miles per year but not proportionately.
I’d advise any new owner to prioritise a suspension and bushings refresh for maximum enjoyment - if you drive one and aren’t impressed, it likely needs some work and that won’t be a small bill if you don’t commit to it fully. Lots of owners will do little bits of the suspension as they are needed but it’s only as good as it’s weakest component. The magic of a 911 is in the handling and tired cars are awful.
Depending on annual mileage I’d agree £2k a year would be about right using a good indy, excluding any engine disasters. It’s a good benchmark for any cars you look at - any that have had less than that spent, you’re more likely to be the one spending it.
It's very easy to find people that have run them on £2k or less a year (that doesn't include fuel or insurance). That's best case scenario.
It's also easy to find people who have spent a whole lot more. The question you want to be asking is "what's the worst case scenario". If you could suck up a one off 4 or even 5 figure bill then go for it. If you're stretching your budget and don't have the funds without emptying your saving to pay such a bill then I'd hold off.
A rebuilt car, turbo or any of the other models mentioned above is also no guarantee of it not emptying your wallet. My 996 turbo threw a £5k gearbox bill and I've seen plenty of other have the same. Expensive cars are made of lots of expensive parts, many of which can go wrong especially as the cars age. There are also daft things that cost nothing on a normal car but can cost a fortune on these. Like corroded brake lines that need the gearbox or sub frame and steering rack removed to replace.
I love mine but they are cars for tolerant people who have realistic expectations of running an older car.
It's also easy to find people who have spent a whole lot more. The question you want to be asking is "what's the worst case scenario". If you could suck up a one off 4 or even 5 figure bill then go for it. If you're stretching your budget and don't have the funds without emptying your saving to pay such a bill then I'd hold off.
A rebuilt car, turbo or any of the other models mentioned above is also no guarantee of it not emptying your wallet. My 996 turbo threw a £5k gearbox bill and I've seen plenty of other have the same. Expensive cars are made of lots of expensive parts, many of which can go wrong especially as the cars age. There are also daft things that cost nothing on a normal car but can cost a fortune on these. Like corroded brake lines that need the gearbox or sub frame and steering rack removed to replace.
I love mine but they are cars for tolerant people who have realistic expectations of running an older car.
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