997.1 Carrera S - work required to get track ready?

[RemarkLima]

Hi all,

I'm thinking I'd like to do a few trackdays here and there again, I used to do loads and a bit of racing but not done anything beyond a bit of karting here and there for quite some years.

Reading around, it seem that the S is pretty decent out of the box - there'll be the obvious age related wear, bushes etc... The engine mounts have been replaced with new OEM ones recently.

As it's a "heavy" car, the brakes could do with some love - I've read mixed statements about braded lines, and that the stock ones are pretty decent? But it's worth putting the larger ducts on, the front here:
https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod128126/Porsche-...
And rear here:
https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod131401/Porsche-...

Are they the right parts? As there's something about using 996 GT3 ducts on the rear?

Anything else to know about would be useful and if the UK audience agrees that the stock "S" is pretty decent - I'm not planning on the ol' days of running an open session until the fuel runs out, but it'll be good to go there knowing that the day won't be hampered by silly thing to sort beforehand.

Cheers,
RL

[Runtothehills]

I had a 997.2 PDK Carrera that I ran on the track, key was to get some better brake pads and srf brake fluid in straight away. If you can brake ok then that inspires confidence. The Brembo hp2000 pads are fine for road and shorter track sessions and will last a while. You’ll need new rotors after a few track days.

Otherwise they are pretty good out of the box. The next thing after brakes to sort is the front lower control arms. Because standard they only allow a small amount of negative camber. And because the 997s have such large rear tyres you’ll start to encounter a lot of under steer which will be annoying as you approach those limits. So getting some gt3 lower control arms will allow greater camber eg -1.5 degrees and set the car more neutral than understeerey.

[RemarkLima]

Hiya,

Thanks for this, I agree that brake fading is both frightening and pretty much how to ruin a day so above all else getting that sorted is the priority - dodgy balance, tyre grip not consistent etc can all be driven around but brakes going off is just blurgh.

It's in for a brake fluid change so will make sure it's Castrol SRF fluid. As it's DOT4, I'd assume the car has DOT 5.1 in as a road fluid so it'd need to be flushed, do you know how much to get in this case?

Sounds like that's the main thing other than pads, which I can change myself pretty easily so can drop those in when closer to the time.

Thanks for the heads up!

[STiG911]

Can confirm that the front 997GT3 ducts fit a C2s as I've done this to mine. I think the issue with the 997 Turbo ducts is that the rear suspension is slightly different, so they don't fit a 'normal' 997, hence use of the 996 GT3 items instead.

[RemarkLima]

STiG911 said:

Can confirm that the front 997GT3 ducts fit a C2s as I've done this to mine. I think the issue with the 997 Turbo ducts is that the rear suspension is slightly different, so they don't fit a 'normal' 997, hence use of the 996 GT3 items instead.

Great, I think I read that the 997 turbo rears work with a bit of cutting away?

The 996 GT3 items are £215 per side, so £430!! Seems steep unless there's something really special about them? At £16 for the 997 turbo items, it's seem safer risk to hacksaw them if needed

[ImDesigner]

I use mine on track and would recommend doing pads and brake fluid first along with seats. I use standard discs, Pagid RS4-2 on the front and standard Brembo on the rear with Motul RBF 600 fluid (if my memory is correct). I added 997 GT3 brake ducts to help cooling.

The braking set up works well with plenty of stopping power but if I was going to track it more, I'd want to improve airflow to keep them cooler.

I added a pair of Recaro Pole Position seats which have been the best addition to the car. You can brake sympathetically on standard brakes but you can't fully enjoy the chassis without a good pair of seats holding you in place, in my opinion.

It's a road car too so for the time being I use the standard spring and damper arrangement. I haven't found it to be lacking for my intended use. For the time being the car has Michelin PS4S and they've done lots of road miles and 4 track days now. They're an excellent tyre but I'd replace them with Cup 2s as and when required.

I'm really pleased with my car. I just make sure fluids are refreshed regularly. Other than that it's rinse and repeat.

[STiG911]

RemarkLima said:

Great, I think I read that the 997 turbo rears work with a bit of cutting away?

I believe so, yes.

[Slippydiff]

The fitment of the 997 GT3 front brake ducts on their own won't make a massive difference, as they were designed to work in tandem with the upper ducts that are clipped onto the coolant lines on the outer face of the inner flitches (which allow vastly more cool air to the front brakes) but to get them to work is a bit more involved than just clipping on the ducts which fit onto the coffin/castor arms:

This thread should give you a better insight as to how to undertake to modifications required to the arch liners and radiator ducts :

You need to fit the upper air deflectors highlighted in red in the first post :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...

Images of the upper ducts (which are similar to the 997 items) can be found here :

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/7599...

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/495438-track...

The above isn't to say the 997 front lower ducts won't have a positive effect on brake temps, but they won't be as effective without doing the mods detailed above.

Edit to add video of fitment to 986 Boxster (purely to give you an idea of what's involved) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMvmlFitxfA

Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 9th August 12:33

[RemarkLima]

Slippydif,

That's excellent info... My concern is that if you have the car as a road car (a GT3 is going to be a different use case right!?), with the odd track day you're going to throw a load of crap from the road into the back of the radiator, the fans, the rad hoses and what looks like some wiring up there too maybe?

I guess the perfect solution would be a means to have a removable panel in the liner?

And I assume no one does the race car style ducting to the centre of the disk? As it sounds like getting some good cooling really helps these.

[Tommie38]

When the front discs are finished you can upgrade to 350mm GT3 discs using caliper spacers.

Originals are 330mm I think. Cheap upgrade.

[RemarkLima]

ImDesigner said:

I use mine on track and would recommend doing pads and brake fluid first along with seats. I use standard discs, Pagid RS4-2 on the front and standard Brembo on the rear with Motul RBF 600 fluid (if my memory is correct). I added 997 GT3 brake ducts to help cooling.

The braking set up works well with plenty of stopping power but if I was going to track it more, I'd want to improve airflow to keep them cooler.

I added a pair of Recaro Pole Position seats which have been the best addition to the car. You can brake sympathetically on standard brakes but you can't fully enjoy the chassis without a good pair of seats holding you in place, in my opinion.

It's a road car too so for the time being I use the standard spring and damper arrangement. I haven't found it to be lacking for my intended use. For the time being the car has Michelin PS4S and they've done lots of road miles and 4 track days now. They're an excellent tyre but I'd replace them with Cup 2s as and when required.

I'm really pleased with my car. I just make sure fluids are refreshed regularly. Other than that it's rinse and repeat.

I'll probably change the pads all round but good to know either the Motul or the Castrol SRF are options - worth doing. From experience are these a flush once a year or every 2?

I love the idea of the seats but it's also going to be doing the school run from time to time, so I (well the kids) need access to the rear seats - I'm short so it all works

I'm sure I have some CG Locks still in the garage along with my nomex undies and dancing shoes, so maybe I'll try those again as a mid step...

It also sounds like the air ducts are a quick fit and worth doing just to get started, and then pick up the rest as needed.

[Slippydiff]

RemarkLima said:

I'll probably change the pads all round but good to know either the Motul or the Castrol SRF are options - worth doing. From experience are these a flush once a year or every 2?

The Motul 660 has dry boiling point of 325 C and wet boiling point of 205 C.

Castrol SRF has dry boiling point of 325 C and wet boiling point of 270 C and Castrol recommend changing it every 18 months.

As the Motul has a lower wet boiling point, you'll most likely be better off replacing it every 12 months.

The Castrol SRF is amazing stuff (the wet boiling point is waaay in excess of all the other fluids) but you'll pay for it (£53 ltr), whereas the Motul 660 can be bought for £36 ltr and the RBF 600 for £28 (the Motul RBF 600 has a lower dry boiling point than the RBF 660, but a slightly higher wet boiling point)

The Endless RF650 is equal to both the Motul 660/600, but costs waaay more (and is more expensive (£90ltr) than the SRF, despite having an inferior wet boiling point)

SRF or Motul RBF 660 it is then

[RemarkLima]

Slippydiff said:

RemarkLima said:

I'll probably change the pads all round but good to know either the Motul or the Castrol SRF are options - worth doing. From experience are these a flush once a year or every 2?

The Motul 660 has dry boiling point of 325 C and wet boiling point of 205 C.

Castrol SRF has dry boiling point of 325 C and wet boiling point of 270 C and Castrol recommend changing it every 18 months.

As the Motul has a lower wet boiling point, you'll most likely be better off replacing it every 12 months.

The Castrol SRF is amazing stuff (the wet boiling point is waaay in excess of all the other fluids) but you'll pay for it (£53 ltr), whereas the Motul 660 can be bought for £36 ltr and the RBF 600 for £28 (the Motul RBF 600 has a lower dry boiling point than the RBF 660, but a slightly higher wet boiling point)

The Endless RF650 is equal to both the Motul 660/600, but costs waaay more (and is more expensive (£90ltr) than the SRF, despite having an inferior wet boiling point)

SRF or Motul RBF 660 it is then

Great analysis - I guess if you are doing an annual oil change, then fresh Motul isn't too bad.

If you could "get away" with SRF for 2 years:

Motul = (£80 fluid change x £28) x 2 = £216 (i.e. the fluid changes each year)
SRF = £80 fluid change x £53 x 1 = £133

The trick is tying it all in with other bits, but sounds like an annual oil change is a good idea, and do the Motul at the same time.

[RemarkLima]

I've just seen the Motul RBF 700 which looks like it has similar properties to Motul 660, 336 C dry and 205 C wet - and Opie Oils are selling it for £25.

Looks OK to me, but am I missing something?

[Slippydiff]

Looks good.