2030: How will the 911 ICE car market hold up?
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Do you have any thoughts on how the ICE 911 market will hold up, as we move towards 2030, with manufacturers moving to electric vehicles?
I'm sure high end blue chip cars and high end competition cars will do just fine, e.g. McLaren F1, F40, etc.
However I'm not so sure about mass produced ICE prestige cars, e.g. 458, 488, modern 911s etc.
Any thoughts would be gratefully received.
Thank you and best wishes
Who knows is the answer.
My guess would be the simpler the better so that you can maintain them relatively easily and have as much old school driving pleasure as possible.
Cars with a manual gearbox, rear wheel drive, relatively simple engine, made in enough numbers to have a parts supply and some specialist mechanics who know how to work on them. I’m sure many Porsche 911s will fit the bill.
Avoid PDK, PDCC, RWS etc etc. Go for a coupe with no sunroof (future trouble). Avoid fancy stuff that will break and be expensive e.g. the modern targa top. Oh and pre GPF also.
My guess would be the simpler the better so that you can maintain them relatively easily and have as much old school driving pleasure as possible.
Cars with a manual gearbox, rear wheel drive, relatively simple engine, made in enough numbers to have a parts supply and some specialist mechanics who know how to work on them. I’m sure many Porsche 911s will fit the bill.
Avoid PDK, PDCC, RWS etc etc. Go for a coupe with no sunroof (future trouble). Avoid fancy stuff that will break and be expensive e.g. the modern targa top. Oh and pre GPF also.
No one knows.
Synthetic fuels are our main hope of keeping our cars on the road although the EV evangelists are quick to poo-poo it as most of them just want to see the death of the motor car no matter how clean we can get them to run.
Apparently the synthetic fuel thing is mainly to clean up emissions for heavy transport that can’t really go electric and also to help during the transition period until we all go EV.
Basically buy the car you want and enjoy owning it while you can. I’d forget cars as investments though. Which is is a good thing to be honest.
Synthetic fuels are our main hope of keeping our cars on the road although the EV evangelists are quick to poo-poo it as most of them just want to see the death of the motor car no matter how clean we can get them to run.
Apparently the synthetic fuel thing is mainly to clean up emissions for heavy transport that can’t really go electric and also to help during the transition period until we all go EV.
Basically buy the car you want and enjoy owning it while you can. I’d forget cars as investments though. Which is is a good thing to be honest.
I’ve no problem with BEVs and am sure my next normal car will be one. I’m going for a 992 as my fun car and don’t really care what it is worth post 2030.
I’m taking the opportunity to get a nice petrol car now and will just see what the market looks like a decade out, however, I can’t see these cars being banned quickly after that date especially as I am getting a GPF Euro 6 car.
As a pointer even Euro 4 petrol cars are seen as clean in many LEZs and they are c15 years old so it’s not worth worrying about.
I’m taking the opportunity to get a nice petrol car now and will just see what the market looks like a decade out, however, I can’t see these cars being banned quickly after that date especially as I am getting a GPF Euro 6 car.
As a pointer even Euro 4 petrol cars are seen as clean in many LEZs and they are c15 years old so it’s not worth worrying about.
Agree with most of that. I think petrol will be around for a good 30 years at least, 20 after the end of new hybrid sales. Price and availability may eventually do for it, but by then synthetic will be available at a cost.
Most high end sports Porsche, McL, Ferrari, Lamborghini will be fine and will do well. Macans, Cayennes etc. will disappear replaced by their EV successors as the fan base will not be there in volume.
911’s will be fine, more than enough specialists about to support for the next 30-40 years at least.
So stop worrying, go buy one and enjoy it. I doubt you’ll lose a great deal.
Most high end sports Porsche, McL, Ferrari, Lamborghini will be fine and will do well. Macans, Cayennes etc. will disappear replaced by their EV successors as the fan base will not be there in volume.
911’s will be fine, more than enough specialists about to support for the next 30-40 years at least.
So stop worrying, go buy one and enjoy it. I doubt you’ll lose a great deal.
Lexington59 said:
2030 is a virtue signalling pipedream. Like most wokism, this eco mentalist nonsense is best ignored, as it will be in ten years’ time..
Buy now, don’t sweat the resale...
I love an ICE Porsche as much as the next man, and don’t give a toss about resale, but your opinion is so yesterday. Way off. In ten years ICE will be like tobacco. Sadly.Buy now, don’t sweat the resale...
Discombobulate said:
In ten years ICE will be like tobacco. Sadly.
I don't think so. EVs simply don't work for many people and synthetic fuels are a far more sensible and affordable solution. Plus with the rising pushback against Net Zero the eco extremists won't have it all their way.Discombobulate said:
I love an ICE Porsche as much as the next man, and don’t give a toss about resale, but your opinion is so yesterday. Way off. In ten years ICE will be like tobacco. Sadly.
Think this is inevitable.Legislation, taxation, access restrictions, will likely compromise the benefits of using ICE vehicles in the future - joining tobacco, VHS, 35mm film, analogue phones…..
Whether any future synthetic fuels will materialise and be suitable for existing ICE engines is highly uncertain.
Edited by Koln-RS on Friday 27th August 22:54
Discombobulate said:
Lexington59 said:
2030 is a virtue signalling pipedream. Like most wokism, this eco mentalist nonsense is best ignored, as it will be in ten years’ time..
Buy now, don’t sweat the resale...
I love an ICE Porsche as much as the next man, and don’t give a toss about resale, but your opinion is so yesterday. Way off. In ten years ICE will be like tobacco. Sadly.Buy now, don’t sweat the resale...
TX.
Koln-RS said:
Think this is inevitable.
Legislation, taxation, access restrictions, will likely compromise the benefits of using ICE vehicles in the future - joining tobacco, VHS, 35mm film, analogue phones…..
Whether any future synthetic fuels will materialise and be suitable for existing ICE engines is highly uncertain.
I think the key variable here will be how iCE cars are taxed in future. Are they viewed nostalgically if limitedLegislation, taxation, access restrictions, will likely compromise the benefits of using ICE vehicles in the future - joining tobacco, VHS, 35mm film, analogue phones…..
Whether any future synthetic fuels will materialise and be suitable for existing ICE engines is highly uncertain.
Edited by Koln-RS on Friday 27th August 22:54
Mileage or are they taxed out of existence via road tax and fuel. If this is too hefty then there won’t be enough demand to support their broad existence. Expect various lobby groups etc to form as time goes on.
I consider the 911 an icon of industrial design (or art for want of a better description) that you can interact with in a way few other art forms allow. And I think their value extends beyond their primary function. I get pleasure purely from ownership.
Come 2030 I’ll be getting on a bit anyway. So, I intend to spend the next nine years driving and enjoying them as much as I can. And I’ll happily just sit and stare at them after that, if that’s all I can do.
Enjoy the cars however you want to. And buy for pleasure, not for profit. I certainly wouldn’t expect long term gains on anything other than the rarest of examples.
Come 2030 I’ll be getting on a bit anyway. So, I intend to spend the next nine years driving and enjoying them as much as I can. And I’ll happily just sit and stare at them after that, if that’s all I can do.
Enjoy the cars however you want to. And buy for pleasure, not for profit. I certainly wouldn’t expect long term gains on anything other than the rarest of examples.
Koln-RS said:
Whether any future synthetic fuels will materialise and be suitable for existing ICE engines is highly uncertain.
This years Porsche Supercup cars are all running on synthetic fuels. I’m not sure how much tweaking is still to do to make it suitable for existing petrol engines, but that is Porsches goal. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/robbreport.com/moto...
As I said earlier though, the EV evangelists (you get them in every religion and Eco mania is a new religion to some folk) don’t want to know.
I read a decent feature not long ago about synthetic fuels, but the EV lot just poo-poo’d it.
It’s almost like some of them aren’t interested in hearing about any other options, regardless of how clean they are.
They’re a strange bunch some of them. Enter any EV thread on P’heads these days and it’s full of people who are happy to see the demise of the petrol engine. Even though this was a petrolheads forum once upon a time.
Unpopular opinion here - I honestly think some of it is just sour grapes. “If I can’t have a nice car, I want no one to have one”.
You get comments like “It’s over for you lot and your petrol cars! Deal with it!”.
As usual the internet brings out the extremists.
Relying on specialists in 30 years time might be a challenging move. How old are most specialists now, and where do their employees usually cut their teeth?
I’m sure a balance will appear as numbers of ICE cars drop, but we’re not talking about veteran cars that are so easy to maintain if you can machine spares. Hmm, there’s a thought… manufacturers release data to allow approved machine shops to 3D print all parts?
I’m sure a balance will appear as numbers of ICE cars drop, but we’re not talking about veteran cars that are so easy to maintain if you can machine spares. Hmm, there’s a thought… manufacturers release data to allow approved machine shops to 3D print all parts?
marky911 said:
This years Porsche Supercup cars are all running on synthetic fuels. I’m not sure how much tweaking is still to do to make it suitable for existing petrol engines, but that is Porsches goal.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/robbreport.com/moto...
Morning Mark, hope you’re well ?https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/robbreport.com/moto...
Here’s an EV evangelist who happens to like ICE AND thinks they have a future.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno
Synthetic fuel in the Supercup series ? Looks to be nothing more than virtue signalling on the part of Porsche/VAG.
So the saviour of the ICE engine ? Not so much :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0MPg7DxbY
“Porsche was quick to note that renewable gasoline that will be used to power the Mobil 1 Supercup cars is not eFuel in its final form. This version is sourced from partner Exxon Mobil’s Chile refinery and is made by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, filtering out the CO2 and then processing into synthetic methanol, which is then turned into renewable fuel.”
The above manufacturing process requires huge amounts of energy to produce the end product, worse still, the end product has considerably less calorific value than the stuff we’ve been pumping out of the ground for the last a hundred and something years ...
So it looks unlikely to be the fuel panacea for the masses and our ICE cars that we’d like/hope it to be.
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