Help needed... GTS or GT3?
Discussion
Hi all, I'm in need of a bit of advice.
A few years back I bought a 991.1 GT3 clubsport, which I enjoyed driving occasionally in addition to my 981 BGTS and Cayenne. But I think I made a mistake about a year back, when I sold it. I fell into the trap of thinking that prices were good, and because I didn't drive it often, it was a bit excessive sat in the garage at home. Three cars felt like one too many. And we'd just moved house, so I knew I'd spend more time on DIY than driving for the next year or two and it would be just sat there, depreciating.
Roll forward 14 months and whilst I really like do enjoy the little BGTS, it's not doing it for me as a second/"weekend" car (I use the Cayenne as a daily/utility, which it's phenomenal for). The 992 also doesn't do it for me (sorry), so I've started looking at 991 GTS and GT3 cars again... seems I haven't got them out of my blood yet... and it's got so bad that I'm now looking at swapping the BGTS for one.
I started out looking at 991.1 GTS cars, which I'm told are great, but then the 991.2 GTS I'm told are quite a bit better... but then for not a lot more I could pick up a 991.1 GT3 again... and then again, for not a lot more than that I could pick up a 991.2 GT3... so I am now a bit confused.
At one end of the spectrum is this car:
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
Which looks like a great GTS, with a nice spec, not too high a mileage, but maybe it's a bit expensive for a 7 year old car?
At the other end is this:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14188744
I kept reading that the 4.0 GT3 was a better car than the 3.8, and this one looks like a really good buy at the moment. The spec is good, and I actually like the yellow colour, it feels like a bit of a bold statement. But it looks like it was sold and then it wasn't, and it has no OPC warranty, which is a concern.
So, my questions are:
- Has anyone had a 991 GTS and GT3, and if so, how different are they really? Is the GTS really 90% of a GT3, as some say?
- Is it worth the extra for a 991.2 GT3 over the 991.1? My 991.1 was great, but I haven't driven the .2. Apart fromt the reported engine issues in the 991.1 (which I never experienced), is the 991.2 really worth the extra 20-30k?
- Are Ashgoods any good? Looks like they price cars reasonably in order to sell, but are they OK on warranty, for example?
- Does anyone know the two cars above, and if so are they any good/to be avoided?
- Or should I just wait... prices "seem" to be coming down a little bit now, and I'm not in a rush, really.
I'm a bit challenged on location as the cars I'm looking at are in the south and I'm in the North, otherwise I'd have just popped over to drive the two cars and made my mind up that way. So I'm trying to work things through before taking a long drive...
Any comments and suggestions appreciated. And sorry that this is not about values or deviated stitching :-)
GD
A few years back I bought a 991.1 GT3 clubsport, which I enjoyed driving occasionally in addition to my 981 BGTS and Cayenne. But I think I made a mistake about a year back, when I sold it. I fell into the trap of thinking that prices were good, and because I didn't drive it often, it was a bit excessive sat in the garage at home. Three cars felt like one too many. And we'd just moved house, so I knew I'd spend more time on DIY than driving for the next year or two and it would be just sat there, depreciating.
Roll forward 14 months and whilst I really like do enjoy the little BGTS, it's not doing it for me as a second/"weekend" car (I use the Cayenne as a daily/utility, which it's phenomenal for). The 992 also doesn't do it for me (sorry), so I've started looking at 991 GTS and GT3 cars again... seems I haven't got them out of my blood yet... and it's got so bad that I'm now looking at swapping the BGTS for one.
I started out looking at 991.1 GTS cars, which I'm told are great, but then the 991.2 GTS I'm told are quite a bit better... but then for not a lot more I could pick up a 991.1 GT3 again... and then again, for not a lot more than that I could pick up a 991.2 GT3... so I am now a bit confused.
At one end of the spectrum is this car:
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
Which looks like a great GTS, with a nice spec, not too high a mileage, but maybe it's a bit expensive for a 7 year old car?
At the other end is this:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14188744
I kept reading that the 4.0 GT3 was a better car than the 3.8, and this one looks like a really good buy at the moment. The spec is good, and I actually like the yellow colour, it feels like a bit of a bold statement. But it looks like it was sold and then it wasn't, and it has no OPC warranty, which is a concern.
So, my questions are:
- Has anyone had a 991 GTS and GT3, and if so, how different are they really? Is the GTS really 90% of a GT3, as some say?
- Is it worth the extra for a 991.2 GT3 over the 991.1? My 991.1 was great, but I haven't driven the .2. Apart fromt the reported engine issues in the 991.1 (which I never experienced), is the 991.2 really worth the extra 20-30k?
- Are Ashgoods any good? Looks like they price cars reasonably in order to sell, but are they OK on warranty, for example?
- Does anyone know the two cars above, and if so are they any good/to be avoided?
- Or should I just wait... prices "seem" to be coming down a little bit now, and I'm not in a rush, really.
I'm a bit challenged on location as the cars I'm looking at are in the south and I'm in the North, otherwise I'd have just popped over to drive the two cars and made my mind up that way. So I'm trying to work things through before taking a long drive...
Any comments and suggestions appreciated. And sorry that this is not about values or deviated stitching :-)
GD
Had a 991.2gts and then a 991.2 gt3.
And like you I have a cayenne as a daily as well
I cannot tell what others are going to think of a car so my observations are based purely on what I found
The gts is excellent and you could argue you can use its performance more of the time .
But buy a gt3 .
And like you I have a cayenne as a daily as well
I cannot tell what others are going to think of a car so my observations are based purely on what I found
The gts is excellent and you could argue you can use its performance more of the time .
But buy a gt3 .
I have a 991.1 GT3 so I’m obviously biased… but if you have a Cayenne as a daily, a GT3 has far more theatre than a GTS, even though you could argue the GTS is the ultimate all rounder. The .1 GTS models felt neutered to me by comparison when I was buying (sound proofing, ride, gearbox, more leisurely engine, etc), which is what you want if you need a car that can do everything, as well as being a blast at the weekends, but was too “nice” as a machine only for fun. The 991.2 Targa GTS is interesting though: enough torque from the turbos to combat the weight, and plenty of theatre from the roof. I’d have one of those as my “one car to rule them all” answer, but chalk and cheese compared to a GT3.
As for the .2 vs .1 GT3, it’s well documented. The 4.0 .2 has quite a bit more torque, still revs to 9k, doesn’t have the .1 hydraulic lifter issues, has the option of a manual box, and the ride is a bit better on the road. It feels even more enthusiastic to rev to the redline than the 3.8 if anything, a miraculous engine. You also get niceties like a better PCM infotainment system and Bose sound, if that matters to you. On the other hand, the .1 is 30k cheaper (at least), and sounds better (marginal I know). If you want PDK buy either based on budget. If money less of an object, get the .2! I went .1 because the price gap was huge 4 years ago, and I don’t regret it, but I’d go .2 now.
As for the .2 vs .1 GT3, it’s well documented. The 4.0 .2 has quite a bit more torque, still revs to 9k, doesn’t have the .1 hydraulic lifter issues, has the option of a manual box, and the ride is a bit better on the road. It feels even more enthusiastic to rev to the redline than the 3.8 if anything, a miraculous engine. You also get niceties like a better PCM infotainment system and Bose sound, if that matters to you. On the other hand, the .1 is 30k cheaper (at least), and sounds better (marginal I know). If you want PDK buy either based on budget. If money less of an object, get the .2! I went .1 because the price gap was huge 4 years ago, and I don’t regret it, but I’d go .2 now.
I would my bgts is better car than the 991 gts as you can take the roof off and it sounds better.
However. As the weekend car tge gt3 is the only option. If I was buying a pdk I would buy a .1 from a pic with the warranty. If I wanted manual then there is only one choice.
I had a yellow manual .2 amazing car
However. As the weekend car tge gt3 is the only option. If I was buying a pdk I would buy a .1 from a pic with the warranty. If I wanted manual then there is only one choice.
I had a yellow manual .2 amazing car
After nearly buying a Carrera T when they came out I was seduced by the 991.2 GTS extra power and excellent write ups. I picked up mine brand new in 2018, the assembly of GTS goodies meant I only added a few extras to the Coupe, 2wd and manual gearbox format. I think I only added parking sensors and Carmine red paint as options.
It was alongside a 987.2 Boxster Spyder and I had an anonymous little silver Audi for everyday.
Well the GTS just didn’t do it for me as a special car it was fast and comfortable but the drive was never as fun as the Spyder in fact it felt closer to the Audi in its DNA.
So after a few months I swapped it for a GT3, a 2010 997.2 GT3 which I have now had for 3.5 years, I just love it. Far more a Porsche in my opinion.
If it’s a ‘take it out the garage to be thrilled car’ just go for the GT3 I don’t think a smooth well rounded GTS cuts it for that.
It was alongside a 987.2 Boxster Spyder and I had an anonymous little silver Audi for everyday.
Well the GTS just didn’t do it for me as a special car it was fast and comfortable but the drive was never as fun as the Spyder in fact it felt closer to the Audi in its DNA.
So after a few months I swapped it for a GT3, a 2010 997.2 GT3 which I have now had for 3.5 years, I just love it. Far more a Porsche in my opinion.
If it’s a ‘take it out the garage to be thrilled car’ just go for the GT3 I don’t think a smooth well rounded GTS cuts it for that.
GTS great all round package if rather expensive imo but nowhere near as raw or driver focused as the GT3 either gen 1 or 2.
The large price gulf of around £50k between the gen 1 and 2 GT3 is first down to the age difference as gen 1s are around twice the age of gen 2s. Secondly down to the gen 2 being the better overall car mainly in the engine department with effectively the cup car engine and perhaps one of the best engines around in a car of that price atm. Yep the gen 1 is a great package and I never had any issues with my 2014 car from new although it did have the revised factory fitted engine which was faultless.
If you like revs this is where the gen 2 excels as whilst they both go to 9k the power drop off in the gen 1 is way more evident than the gen 2 approaching the limit. The gen 2 also has much more variable induction noise than the gen 1. External exhaust noise stock on both cars are virtually identical as both are pre gpf. The gen 1 sounds more older style GT3 'bag of spanners' on tickover and low speeds which many including myself don't like.
Other gen 2 improvements include suspension interior and media and possibly improvements to steering and PDK software although these are marginal for road use at least.
The suspension in both gen 1 and 2 is remarkably compliant for road use in fact my gen 2 clubsport manual is more compliant than both my ex 981 GT4 and my 718 GT4 (981 Dunlop Cups 718 Pilot Cups).
The manual gearbox in the gen 2 is without question one of Porsches finest with perfect ratios and action although imo the clutch is too light for a Porsche GT. There is also a useful flatshift option. Bear in mind the lighter in weight purer manual has a mech diff whereas the PDK an e diff which some don't like.
All 3 are great cars at the money good luck in your search pm me if you need any further info on the GT3s etc I am part NW based btw.
The large price gulf of around £50k between the gen 1 and 2 GT3 is first down to the age difference as gen 1s are around twice the age of gen 2s. Secondly down to the gen 2 being the better overall car mainly in the engine department with effectively the cup car engine and perhaps one of the best engines around in a car of that price atm. Yep the gen 1 is a great package and I never had any issues with my 2014 car from new although it did have the revised factory fitted engine which was faultless.
If you like revs this is where the gen 2 excels as whilst they both go to 9k the power drop off in the gen 1 is way more evident than the gen 2 approaching the limit. The gen 2 also has much more variable induction noise than the gen 1. External exhaust noise stock on both cars are virtually identical as both are pre gpf. The gen 1 sounds more older style GT3 'bag of spanners' on tickover and low speeds which many including myself don't like.
Other gen 2 improvements include suspension interior and media and possibly improvements to steering and PDK software although these are marginal for road use at least.
The suspension in both gen 1 and 2 is remarkably compliant for road use in fact my gen 2 clubsport manual is more compliant than both my ex 981 GT4 and my 718 GT4 (981 Dunlop Cups 718 Pilot Cups).
The manual gearbox in the gen 2 is without question one of Porsches finest with perfect ratios and action although imo the clutch is too light for a Porsche GT. There is also a useful flatshift option. Bear in mind the lighter in weight purer manual has a mech diff whereas the PDK an e diff which some don't like.
All 3 are great cars at the money good luck in your search pm me if you need any further info on the GT3s etc I am part NW based btw.
Edited by av185 on Sunday 4th December 12:06
I’ve had a 991.2 GT3 for 4 1/2 years….ran a 997 GTS alongside it until I sold that earlier this year. Should have sld it earlier probably as wasn’t getting used enough. Cayenne is my daily.
As a special/weekend car GT3 every day of the week over a 991 GTS (which I have driven)…the GT3 engine is just on a totally different level to the GTS. That engine makes very drive special even when you’re driving it in a very relaxed manner just because of how it responds to throttle inputs and how it sounds. Obviously when you start pushing on then its just a totally different experience. If you can afford it and you don’t think the ore rounded package of the GTS means you will drive it more than GT3 all the way.
I think the yellow Ashgood’s car was owned from new by Taffy66 of these parts…I am sure he’ll be along soon to confirm. He mentioned it in the GT3 prices thread.
As a special/weekend car GT3 every day of the week over a 991 GTS (which I have driven)…the GT3 engine is just on a totally different level to the GTS. That engine makes very drive special even when you’re driving it in a very relaxed manner just because of how it responds to throttle inputs and how it sounds. Obviously when you start pushing on then its just a totally different experience. If you can afford it and you don’t think the ore rounded package of the GTS means you will drive it more than GT3 all the way.
I think the yellow Ashgood’s car was owned from new by Taffy66 of these parts…I am sure he’ll be along soon to confirm. He mentioned it in the GT3 prices thread.
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