Discussion
I've had a number of 986, 987 Boxster & Cayman and 718 Cayman but for whatever reason I've never had a 911. So, I am on the search of my first 911 and considering the 997.2 or 991.1 generations.
What are the relative pros and cons of 997.2 C2S Manual versus 991.1 C2S Manual? On the 991.1 I heard that the ePAS was not so good, but this was fixed for the GTS version. Some also say the 7-speed manual not so good as the 6-speed. Is the 997.2 starting to show some mid-life issues / starting to feel a little classic?
What are the relative pros and cons of 997.2 C2S Manual versus 991.1 C2S Manual? On the 991.1 I heard that the ePAS was not so good, but this was fixed for the GTS version. Some also say the 7-speed manual not so good as the 6-speed. Is the 997.2 starting to show some mid-life issues / starting to feel a little classic?
I had a 997, and was initially unsure about the 991, but eventually had two - 991.1’S’ PDK and 991.2 Manual.
And, actually, much preferred the 991.2 of all of them. Steering and gearbox all improved, and the turbo engine characteristics and 7-spd box suit road driving much better. Can be relaxed or involving, depending on your mood.
Needs the PSE, though, to sound good.
And, actually, much preferred the 991.2 of all of them. Steering and gearbox all improved, and the turbo engine characteristics and 7-spd box suit road driving much better. Can be relaxed or involving, depending on your mood.
Needs the PSE, though, to sound good.
A 911 is all about the rear engine layout. The newer cars make this less and less obvious so you will probably feel it less in a 991 compared to a 997. If you want to experience a 911 do you just want the badge or do you want to feel the rear end dancing around?
These epas systems are not great. You can compare different versions and say some are better than others but I don't believe anyone will say one is great. The hydraulic system in a 997 should be a lot lot better by comparison and most will gell you its great. You should understand the differences if you have driven hydraulic systems in the 986 and 987 and then electric in the 718.
So if we want to make this simple I would say it like this. If you prefer your 718 to any 987 and 986 you had previously then you should go for the newer 991. And obviously vice versa.
These epas systems are not great. You can compare different versions and say some are better than others but I don't believe anyone will say one is great. The hydraulic system in a 997 should be a lot lot better by comparison and most will gell you its great. You should understand the differences if you have driven hydraulic systems in the 986 and 987 and then electric in the 718.
So if we want to make this simple I would say it like this. If you prefer your 718 to any 987 and 986 you had previously then you should go for the newer 991. And obviously vice versa.
I’ve had both versions of the 991, prefer the .2 bar the noise of the na engine which was intoxicating. They’re the same ‘model’ but very different. Between differing models the change must be more marked- no electric steering in the 997 for example.
I suspect that one or other will speak to you more because of the significant changes between the 997 and 991. So find somewhere with both and try them out.
I suspect that one or other will speak to you more because of the significant changes between the 997 and 991. So find somewhere with both and try them out.
Have had a 9972S manual and now in a 9912s manual and absolutely love it. For me it gives some of the rawness of the 997 in terms of manual box / N/A engine (even more of a howl on the 991 with PSE) and some added practicality in terms of the creature comforts and ability for long distance mile munching, big fuel tank, 30mpg fuel economy cruising in 7th.
Mine is just as thrilling on an early morning blat down some favourite twisties as it is adept at crossing Europe in a day. I reckon you lose a bit of steering feel from the 997 but marginal unless you are fixated on it.
Mine is just as thrilling on an early morning blat down some favourite twisties as it is adept at crossing Europe in a day. I reckon you lose a bit of steering feel from the 997 but marginal unless you are fixated on it.
Koln-RS said:
I had a 997, and was initially unsure about the 991, but eventually had two - 991.1’S’ PDK and 991.2 Manual.
And, actually, much preferred the 991.2 of all of them. Steering and gearbox all improved, and the turbo engine characteristics and 7-spd box suit road driving much better. Can be relaxed or involving, depending on your mood.
Needs the PSE, though, to sound good.
And, actually, much preferred the 991.2 of all of them. Steering and gearbox all improved, and the turbo engine characteristics and 7-spd box suit road driving much better. Can be relaxed or involving, depending on your mood.
Needs the PSE, though, to sound good.
ellroy said:
I’ve had both versions of the 991, prefer the .2 bar the noise of the na engine which was intoxicating. They’re the same ‘model’ but very different. Between differing models the change must be more marked- no electric steering in the 997 for example.
I suspect that one or other will speak to you more because of the significant changes between the 997 and 991. So find somewhere with both and try them out.
That seems to be the common theme from various discussions - the 991.2 was just a much better resolved car. I drove a 991.2 GTS for an afternoon at PEC when they were new. Got invited to go twice when I bought my 718 in 2017, second time I drove the 911. Really loved the car in PDK on the track but really looking for engagement which is why I was thinking maybe NA with manual might suit better.I suspect that one or other will speak to you more because of the significant changes between the 997 and 991. So find somewhere with both and try them out.
Cheib said:
Very hard to say …..it is a very individual choice. Lots of chat about the 991 being much bigger than the 997 but reality is that the glasshouse in the 991 is bigger/wider but the width at the rear arches is pretty similar.
Weekend/fun car I think the 997.2 is more engaging.
Interesting, may be it should be the 997. It would only be a weekend car to run alongside my EV daily and an Elise CUP. Weekend/fun car I think the 997.2 is more engaging.
ATM said:
If you want to experience a 911 do you just want the badge or do you want to feel the rear end dancing around?
So if we want to make this simple I would say it like this. If you prefer your 718 to any 987 and 986 you had previously then you should go for the newer 991. And obviously vice versa.
More food for thought ... I wouldn't say it was night and day steering preference from the 718 to the 987. Neither is as good as the Elise. But the Elise is a very compromised car in lots of other ways which gets used a few times a year for specific Lotus runs and track days. I'd probably be interested in an Emira but I've got time to drive other things and probably retire before one of those gets delivered.So if we want to make this simple I would say it like this. If you prefer your 718 to any 987 and 986 you had previously then you should go for the newer 991. And obviously vice versa.
240Cup said:
Have had a 9972S manual and now in a 9912s manual and absolutely love it. For me it gives some of the rawness of the 997 in terms of manual box / N/A engine (even more of a howl on the 991 with PSE) and some added practicality in terms of the creature comforts and ability for long distance mile munching, big fuel tank, 30mpg fuel economy cruising in 7th.
I must admit I was thinking 991.2 but finding a manual is very difficult ... which leads me to the .2 T as they seem to be more of those than the rest of the .2 Carreras put together.So, seems no love for the 991.1?
I've got my 991.1 2S manual and a new Emira and in theory both are daily drivers, so alternating at present but will ultimately need to chose between the two. And in my case, yes much love for the 991.1 .. which is why it is still here!!
In my previous post I think I put 9912S but I mean 991.1 2S (i.e. the 991.1 but 2 wheel drive 400bhp S).
The few rare 991.1 2S manuals to be advertised usually have no spec (they were cheaper than the pdk and often represented a cheap entry point to 911 ownership) whereas mine is fully loaded and took 2 years to find.
In my previous post I think I put 9912S but I mean 991.1 2S (i.e. the 991.1 but 2 wheel drive 400bhp S).
The few rare 991.1 2S manuals to be advertised usually have no spec (they were cheaper than the pdk and often represented a cheap entry point to 911 ownership) whereas mine is fully loaded and took 2 years to find.
Edited by 240Cup on Tuesday 21st February 17:01
OP you mention the 991.2 Carrera T as a possibility and these are worth a look I owned a lightly specced comfort manual from new in March 2018 and actually regret selling it now. The T proved relatively unpopular new and lightly used but they sell very well now at strong money at 5 years old and have been for the past 2 to 3 years.
The T actually drives and sounds very similar to the 997.2 Carreras and feels almost 'analogue' old school Carrera in many ways but with no old school Carrera disadvantages
Only downside really is the rather vague gearbox action in the upper ratios in particular.
Limited numbers and last of the line narrow bodied Carrera should ensure future desirability and strong residuals for many years to come not unlike the 2wd 997 GTS.
Those with T pack and the free optional rear seats and lightweight glass are most in demand.
The T actually drives and sounds very similar to the 997.2 Carreras and feels almost 'analogue' old school Carrera in many ways but with no old school Carrera disadvantages
Only downside really is the rather vague gearbox action in the upper ratios in particular.
Limited numbers and last of the line narrow bodied Carrera should ensure future desirability and strong residuals for many years to come not unlike the 2wd 997 GTS.
Those with T pack and the free optional rear seats and lightweight glass are most in demand.
av185 said:
OP you mention the 991.2 Carrera T as a possibility and these are worth a look I owned a lightly specced comfort manual from new in March 2018 and actually regret selling it now. The T proved relatively unpopular new and lightly used but they sell very well now at strong money at 5 years old and have been for the past 2 to 3 years.
The T actually drives and sounds very similar to the 997.2 Carreras and feels almost 'analogue' old school Carrera in many ways but with no old school Carrera disadvantages
Only downside really is the rather vague gearbox action in the upper ratios in particular.
Limited numbers and last of the line narrow bodied Carrera should ensure future desirability and strong residuals for many years to come not unlike the 2wd 997 GTS.
Those with T pack and the free optional rear seats and lightweight glass are most in demand.
Thanks, I remember them when they came out ... quite a lot of interest initially (press and YT). Pushing my budget from 50-60 to 80 ... at 80 that's now where the 997.2 GTS manual sits. The T actually drives and sounds very similar to the 997.2 Carreras and feels almost 'analogue' old school Carrera in many ways but with no old school Carrera disadvantages
Only downside really is the rather vague gearbox action in the upper ratios in particular.
Limited numbers and last of the line narrow bodied Carrera should ensure future desirability and strong residuals for many years to come not unlike the 2wd 997 GTS.
Those with T pack and the free optional rear seats and lightweight glass are most in demand.
Hi
I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
Personally I’d take the 997.2 manual over the 991.1 manual
The ratios in the 991 were too long 70 in second 100 in third and the manual gearbox ratios were to close and I’d occasionally miss third and hit fifth when on it a bit which became quickly very frustrating
Best value for money is still the 997.1 manual if you can cope with the potential engine issues they’re brilliant
991.2 different gravy (I’m now 51 and plan to tour)
I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
Personally I’d take the 997.2 manual over the 991.1 manual
The ratios in the 991 were too long 70 in second 100 in third and the manual gearbox ratios were to close and I’d occasionally miss third and hit fifth when on it a bit which became quickly very frustrating
Best value for money is still the 997.1 manual if you can cope with the potential engine issues they’re brilliant
991.2 different gravy (I’m now 51 and plan to tour)
Andy_M_ said:
Sorry got mixed up there, I thought when you put 9912S it was 991.2S.
Finding a manual 991.1S or GTS seems to be difficult. I think there are a couple advertised currently but seem to be pretty low spec.
That’s why when I saw a 991.2 GTS manual I snapped it up. Glad I did. Love it.Finding a manual 991.1S or GTS seems to be difficult. I think there are a couple advertised currently but seem to be pretty low spec.
Edited by ellroy on Thursday 23 February 10:39
RicM5 said:
Hi
I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
Personally I’d take the 997.2 manual over the 991.1 manual
The ratios in the 991 were too long 70 in second 100 in third and the manual gearbox ratios were to close and I’d occasionally miss third and hit fifth when on it a bit which became quickly very frustrating
Best value for money is still the 997.1 manual if you can cope with the potential engine issues they’re brilliant
991.2 different gravy (I’m now 51 and plan to tour)
997.1 vs 997.2; was it just the DFI engine and a few external / internal styling changes? Should we expect that all 997.1 have bore scoring to some extent? I think the 3.8 S engine is more prone?I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
Personally I’d take the 997.2 manual over the 991.1 manual
The ratios in the 991 were too long 70 in second 100 in third and the manual gearbox ratios were to close and I’d occasionally miss third and hit fifth when on it a bit which became quickly very frustrating
Best value for money is still the 997.1 manual if you can cope with the potential engine issues they’re brilliant
991.2 different gravy (I’m now 51 and plan to tour)
RicM5 said:
Hi
I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
thats a great list ! I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
I went
996 Targa
996 Turbo (tree edition)
996 Turbo
991.2 Targa
full circle over a 20 year period with a few other cars mixed in.
As a 991.1 GTS Manual owner I'm obviously biased but I'd say it's worth searching one out if you prefer the N/A engine - it took me about a year to find the right car and they seem to come up for sale at the rate of around one every 2 months
991.1 GTS Manuals are twice as rare as either 997.2 or 991.2 models with around 30 RWD Manual coupes registered in the UK compared with around twice that for the 997.2 and 991.2
Plus those that buy them tend to keep them as they are so good!
991.1 GTS Manuals are twice as rare as either 997.2 or 991.2 models with around 30 RWD Manual coupes registered in the UK compared with around twice that for the 997.2 and 991.2
Plus those that buy them tend to keep them as they are so good!
superlightr said:
RicM5 said:
Hi
I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
thats a great list ! I’ve owned
997.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.1 GT3
997.1 turbo (manual)
991.1 Carrera S (manual)
997.2 CSR (manual)
991.2 GTS (PDK) current
CSR’s built by RPM Technik see their website
Had my 997.1 Carrera S borescoped by porsche before purchase for peace of mind
Actually spoke to the guy I sold it to today who has just recently moved her on after 6 years of trouble free use he toured Europe in her and performed regular servicing and had no issues during his ownership and thanked me for a fantastic car (called him as I’m looking for a 997.1 manual to sit alongside my 991.2)
PDK in the 991.2 GTS is fantastic but not as engaging as swapping cogs
The level of everything the GTS offers is just mind blowing in comparison to the 997’s with regards to tech and performance( you’d hope so it’s a 2017 car) the GTS feels quicker than my 997 turbo that said it’s not as rewarding to spank down a country road as the manual 997’s and is no where near as raw to me more of a GT car than pure sports car
You can’t really go wrong with whatever you choose OP just follow the rules buy the best well maintained/documented car you can find
They’re all bloody brilliant
The CSR programme always looked appealing ... I think the benefit of going with a 997 is the option to tinker with it.
The 991.2GTS is a great package and very fast. There are probably more manual .2 GTS around than .1 GTS or 7.2 GTS, but even so there are very few overall. There's one currently on Collecting Cars but it is starting to get close to retail now when you add the commission and it still hasn't hit it's reserve.
The 991.2GTS is a great package and very fast. There are probably more manual .2 GTS around than .1 GTS or 7.2 GTS, but even so there are very few overall. There's one currently on Collecting Cars but it is starting to get close to retail now when you add the commission and it still hasn't hit it's reserve.
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