That old 1st and 2nd gear stiff question
Discussion
HI all,
I have read a lot of threads has a 40k miles 2011 997.2 C2 and it has stiffness in first, particularly and 2nd when cold and when hot its better but not gone, getting first when rolling is very difficult sometimes and on some occasions very stiff to find first
My car has had gearbox oil changed (marginally better) new FF engine mounts (love these) and no real difference (my mounts weren't worn anyway it seems) it has a new quickshift fitted 1k miles ago, marginal improvement
Any ideas to improve or reduce/remove this inconvenience ?
I have read a lot of threads has a 40k miles 2011 997.2 C2 and it has stiffness in first, particularly and 2nd when cold and when hot its better but not gone, getting first when rolling is very difficult sometimes and on some occasions very stiff to find first
My car has had gearbox oil changed (marginally better) new FF engine mounts (love these) and no real difference (my mounts weren't worn anyway it seems) it has a new quickshift fitted 1k miles ago, marginal improvement
Any ideas to improve or reduce/remove this inconvenience ?
Adrian-9iafn said:
Porsche spec I believe, it was done at RPM Mobil PTX 75/90
In that case, you've done all you can do, short of checking the shifter adjustment, replacing the shift cables, bleeding the clutch and checking its adjustment, and/or fitting a new clutch if it's past its best. The next step is a gearbox rebuild to replace the 1st and 2nd gear synchros. Which won't be cheap ...
Info on what goes wrong with the transmissions can be found here :
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/the-definitive-guide-to-p...
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/the-definitive-guide-to-p...
I have a 2009 997.2 C4S and have had these issues. Second gear is the biggest cause or frustration where it is so slow to drop into gear nicely, I am skipping it and going straight to third until the oil has warmed up (approx 10-15 minutes of driving).
I was getting a slight crunch into second but rarely and I had thought it was all part of the same problem. I bit the bullet and had the gearbox rebuilt. New full second gear set. New synchros on first and third too. The rare, slight crunch went away, but the very stiff/slow shift speed into second is still there almost as badly as before. It seems to be better when the weather is warmer as you might expect. The specialist have checked the cables are adjusted correctly, and also drove it before and after the rebuild. They said it was a common complaint, but just the nature of that gearbox.
It is the only thing I don't like about the car and it does affect how much I enjoy driving it. At this point I am questioning whether I should just accept it, or move it on for something else where I don't experience these issues. Previous manual sports cars have included an S2000 and MX5 which I know have very highly regarded manual boxes, but I would have thought Porsche could operate at the same level.
I was getting a slight crunch into second but rarely and I had thought it was all part of the same problem. I bit the bullet and had the gearbox rebuilt. New full second gear set. New synchros on first and third too. The rare, slight crunch went away, but the very stiff/slow shift speed into second is still there almost as badly as before. It seems to be better when the weather is warmer as you might expect. The specialist have checked the cables are adjusted correctly, and also drove it before and after the rebuild. They said it was a common complaint, but just the nature of that gearbox.
It is the only thing I don't like about the car and it does affect how much I enjoy driving it. At this point I am questioning whether I should just accept it, or move it on for something else where I don't experience these issues. Previous manual sports cars have included an S2000 and MX5 which I know have very highly regarded manual boxes, but I would have thought Porsche could operate at the same level.
Edited by joeheavyslow on Thursday 9th November 15:49
I have a 997.1 that I've owned for c8 years. When I got it at c9 years old the gearbox was like silk in all gears. Then 2 or 3 years later I had the engine dropped for a clutch replacement and ever since I've had the 1st and 2nd gear issue, which like everyone else goes away when the car warms up. I figured maybe some adjustment had been impacted by the engine coming out but the garage has failed to improve it since.
Recently when I was a t-junction someone stopped to let me out and it took about 3 or 4 attempts to get the car in to 1st gear. All very embarrassing as the good samaritan was sat waiting for me!
Recently when I was a t-junction someone stopped to let me out and it took about 3 or 4 attempts to get the car in to 1st gear. All very embarrassing as the good samaritan was sat waiting for me!
I had the factory fitted SSK on my 997.2, it was a bit temperamental going from 2nd to 1st gear as you stopped, sometimes you had to go back into 2nd put it into neutral and go again from there, I did around 55k in it over 3 years I think the issue started around 20k miles, all the other changes were fine.
I put it down to user error.
Adrian-9iafn said:
It was I believe it's a Porsche one it was fitted by RPM and says short shift kit, it looks like this (In took the pic when I was upgrading the gear knowing gaitor)
Yep, that looks like factory 997 short shift.That gives a pretty chunky reduction in throw (20% over a stock 997 shift, which is 15% shorter than a 996 shift assembly to start off with)
That shifter would be the first thing I’d remove. Something has to give when you reduce the throw by 20%, and the first thing is the time available for the synchros to do their job, and secondly is an increase in shift weight (as a result of the lever’s fulcrum point moving).
I’m afraid you’ll definitely be exacerbating the issue with that shifter.
The SSK makes 1st and 2nd a nightmare when cold.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is much easier to use and still very precise feeling.
One thing I would do is make sure 100% they used the Mobil PTX, not one of the other two fluids Porsche use, they are no where near as good.
Do you get any movement, as in wiggle, at all left to right, front to back when the car is in gear?
With the gear lever in its natural position, does moving it up and down put it straight into 3rd and 4th with the same amount of movement/throw and the same amount of clunk as it slots into each?
If not, it needs aligning better.
The SSK is OK with new cars/gearboxes, but as they get older they become far more problematic.
You need to make sure it is actually set up properly with the right fluid first and foremost.
The 997.2 GT3 shifter is much easier to use and still very precise feeling.
One thing I would do is make sure 100% they used the Mobil PTX, not one of the other two fluids Porsche use, they are no where near as good.
Do you get any movement, as in wiggle, at all left to right, front to back when the car is in gear?
With the gear lever in its natural position, does moving it up and down put it straight into 3rd and 4th with the same amount of movement/throw and the same amount of clunk as it slots into each?
If not, it needs aligning better.
The SSK is OK with new cars/gearboxes, but as they get older they become far more problematic.
You need to make sure it is actually set up properly with the right fluid first and foremost.
Edited by Ed.Neumann on Thursday 9th November 22:33
And when sat in its natural return position it is lined up with 3rd and 4th?
You can adjust the cables to make it slot into 1st, 3rd and 5th easier than 2nd, 4th and 6th, or vice versa, but one will effect the other.
I found making 3rd a little less precise made 2nd far, far nicer.
There is no play forward and back when in neutral? Same as left and right.
What I am getting at is whether your detent spring is starting to age.
You can swap that over with £20 or parts for a new pin and spring. That sorts loads of issues out, including when they pop out of 2nd.
Every time the gearbox is dropped I would swap that spring, or pop an 8mm ball bearing in the top. Porsche actually sell a ball bearing for this at 90p.
You can adjust the cables to make it slot into 1st, 3rd and 5th easier than 2nd, 4th and 6th, or vice versa, but one will effect the other.
I found making 3rd a little less precise made 2nd far, far nicer.
There is no play forward and back when in neutral? Same as left and right.
What I am getting at is whether your detent spring is starting to age.
You can swap that over with £20 or parts for a new pin and spring. That sorts loads of issues out, including when they pop out of 2nd.
Every time the gearbox is dropped I would swap that spring, or pop an 8mm ball bearing in the top. Porsche actually sell a ball bearing for this at 90p.
Adrian-9iafn said:
The play forward and backwards in neutral and any gear is very minimal, less than side to side. It feels quite tight forward and back wards
Cool. So all you are really left with at this point is the transmission fluid or shifter, make sure it is PTX and not the other Mobil Porsche also recommend, can't remember what that is called off the top of my head, maybe SHC?
Anyway, PTX is only available in 20L drums, so many just buy in the other stuff as that comes in a litres, but it is no where near as good.
This covers the nasty 1st and 2nd change, he tried a few fluids and in the end ordered the PTX and it sorted it.
https://youtu.be/UeAPPrk_8sM?si=8KEy2740fJm2_-K2&a...
If that doesn't sort it then I would get rid of the SSK and buy the GT3 997.2 shifter, about 10% longer, but slots into the gears much easier without feeling long.
OPC is cheapest...
997.2 GT3 shift (997 424 010 91)
I guess it could be gearbox issues as well. But so many people say they have issues with the SSK like you have fitted.
Edited by Ed.Neumann on Saturday 11th November 11:43
I had a GT3 shifter kit fitted to my 997.2 C2. Disappointingly it didn’t give the rifle bolt shift I was hoping for but that was probably due to either the way it was fitted (the Porsche specialist mechanic admitted that he’d never fitted one before) or because the cables needed adjusting.
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