GT3 - retrofit rear seats - insurance?

[I 8 a 4RE]

For those who have retrofitted back seats to a 991 or 992 GT3 (non-Touring) at RPM Technik, how did you square this away with insurance?

The car is not homologated for rear seats, will they insure it.

RPM could not provide an answer when I rang.

[egzplicit]

I'm interested in this as well.

Based on some videos I've seen I understand that the 992.1 touring is homologated as a 2+2? Didn't know the winged version is not.

[Grantstown]

There are multiple versions of every generation of 911. Do they really need to homologate each submodel or simply coupe/cab/targa?

[KittyLitter]

Their website says

The GT3 rear seat kit that we install has German TUV approval, which is an exceptionally stringent test that once passed, impartially endorses the quality that the kits have been made to.

But does TUV approval mean thats ok?
Though the discussion is for a different bit of kit, it seems not...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

in the event, heaven forbid, then there is no way an insurance company would cover non OEM fitted rear seats, surely?

[hardlylikely]

What does your V5 say?

[Cheib]

Grantstown said:

There are multiple versions of every generation of 911. Do they really need to homologate each submodel or simply coupe/cab/targa?

That was the reason given with 991.2…although clearly our friends at Weissach are known to be economical with the truth sometimes.

I think it is about tyres/suspension and also possibly rear impact. GT3 obviously has a different engine to Carrera so rear occupant safety may need testing.

[Grantstown]

Cheib said:

That was the reason given with 991.2…although clearly our friends at Weissach are known to be economical with the truth sometimes.

I think it is about tyres/suspension and also possibly rear impact. GT3 obviously has a different engine to Carrera so rear occupant safety may need testing.

Of course, the different engine etc. Still they could have homologated for four seats and then have a seat delete option.

I hear people with the insurance concerns. There are companies that agree to insure both the car and the value of fitted modifications though. It’s a smaller pool to pick from so more chance of a poor quote.

[elan362]

hardlylikely said:

What does your V5 say?

That would be the starting point.
If the section 8.1 of V5C (no of seats including driver) says 2, then any additional seats would not be legal.

Unless you submit evidence to the DVLA of the retro fitted seat belts and they agree to update section 8.1 of your V5C.

Whether the DVLA will update the V5 will depend on whether the vehicle is homologated with 2 or 4, perhaps require an installation inspection report etc. So I would say not impossible, but also not straightforward or guaranteed.

But it won't be legal to use backseats unless the V5C is updated

[CloudStuff]

Speak to RPM, they've done this work, and as you'd expect have done it thoroughly alongside wing removal.

They may - potentially - be able to put you in touch with somebody who has a converted car, and therefore has gone through the entire process including insurance.

[I 8 a 4RE]

CloudStuff said:

Speak to RPM, they've done this work, and as you'd expect have done it thoroughly alongside wing removal.

They may - potentially - be able to put you in touch with somebody who has a converted car, and therefore has gone through the entire process including insurance.

I did. They said nothing to do with them. Between the customer and the insurance company.

That makes me less than confident their cars are actually legal and fully insured.

The V5 is a good shout and frankly sounds too much fuss / costs.
Ideally I want a manual, N/A 911 that’s both great on track but can also take the family to the south of France.

But at this rate, keeping my low miles 991.1 manual S and a 997 Cup car on the side seem better options for both missions, cheaper, and legal!!

[egzplicit]

https://youtu.be/yvP5RbZ94j4 He mentioned updating the V5 as well as getting the insurance changed. He is also saying it's homologated as a 2+2 to begin with...

[hardlylikely]

elan362 said:

hardlylikely said:

What does your V5 say?

That would be the starting point.
If the section 8.1 of V5C (no of seats including driver) says 2, then any additional seats would not be legal.

Unless you submit evidence to the DVLA of the retro fitted seat belts and they agree to update section 8.1 of your V5C.

Whether the DVLA will update the V5 will depend on whether the vehicle is homologated with 2 or 4, perhaps require an installation inspection report etc. So I would say not impossible, but also not straightforward or guaranteed.

But it won't be legal to use backseats unless the V5C is updated

I had a 996 GT2 and that car didnt have rear seats, but the V5 said it was a 4 seat vehicle. I bought the bits off ebay and did the work myself, the seat belt mounting points were already there under the carpet. Propably different these days

[MrCippo]

How does adding rear seats in a GT3 go with Porsche Warranty ? Is the warranty policy affected in any way ?

[I 8 a 4RE]

One of my pals recently had his 991.2 GT3 warranty extended at an OPC with seats from GT3 Belts, so you should be fine.

[rrroro]

I’ve posted on this topic previously in the forum, it’s a huge grey area, this whole matter of adding rear seats into a car that left the factory as a 2 seater

To summarise my own findings, IMO the V5 is a red herring, if it currently says 2 seater all you need to do is send the form off to the DVLA telling them the car is a 4 seater and they will update it (this was the case with my car)

The more complex issue is insurance. Many elsewhere seem to have said their insurance co has made a note that the car is a 4 seater and job done, but the test will come should there actually be a claim. It’s no wonder that RPM and others offering this mod swerve the insurance topic as they (understandably from a business perspective) don’t want to accept any liability should something go wrong

I’ve spoken to a couple of brokers about this mod, and one advised that the policy change would need to state that the car is now insured to carry 4 passengers. Simply amending the policy to state car now has seats in the rear is not enough, it must say that these seats can actually be used for the carriage of people. If you’re able to do this then you should be ok - sounds silly and pedantic, but this is the insurance industry we’re dealing with… you literally pay your money and take your chances unless the policy wording is watertight

And as mentioned by the previous poster, it’s also worth considering too what this mod does to your warranty if you have one - Porsche used to typically refuse any claims where the car before them was different to how it left the factory - I don’t know if this is any different these days. I imagine it would be in the event of a claim, they wouldn’t want anything to do with it like the organisation that fitted the seats

[scrounger73]

Just to throw something in the mix, how does it work with a 992.2 then where you can spec the rear seats as an option? Is the V5 different?

Are there any 992.2 owners out there that have a 2 seater or 2+2? what does it say on your V5?

[throt]

rrroro said:

I’ve posted on this topic previously in the forum, it’s a huge grey area, this whole matter of adding rear seats into a car that left the factory as a 2 seater

To summarise my own findings, IMO the V5 is a red herring, if it currently says 2 seater all you need to do is send the form off to the DVLA telling them the car is a 4 seater and they will update it (this was the case with my car)

The more complex issue is insurance. Many elsewhere seem to have said their insurance co has made a note that the car is a 4 seater and job done, but the test will come should there actually be a claim. It’s no wonder that RPM and others offering this mod swerve the insurance topic as they (understandably from a business perspective) don’t want to accept any liability should something go wrong

I’ve spoken to a couple of brokers about this mod, and one advised that the policy change would need to state that the car is now insured to carry 4 passengers. Simply amending the policy to state car now has seats in the rear is not enough, it must say that these seats can actually be used for the carriage of people. If you’re able to do this then you should be ok - sounds silly and pedantic, but this is the insurance industry we’re dealing with… you literally pay your money and take your chances unless the policy wording is watertight

And as mentioned by the previous poster, it’s also worth considering too what this mod does to your warranty if you have one - Porsche used to typically refuse any claims where the car before them was different to how it left the factory - I don’t know if this is any different these days. I imagine it would be in the event of a claim, they wouldn’t want anything to do with it like the organisation that fitted the seats

I would steer clear of making a 2 seater a 4 seater.
Comes from the factory a 2 seater then that's how the car stays

[throt]

scrounger73 said:

Just to throw something in the mix, how does it work with a 992.2 then where you can spec the rear seats as an option? Is the V5 different?

Are there any 992.2 owners out there that have a 2 seater or 2+2? what does it say on your V5?

Should say 4 seater if that's what it is.

You have to be so careful with car insurance, hence why I binned off Admiral after having a chat with them on the phone.
Even after the phone chats, my questions, in a way, were still unanswered. it was like one big business trick quiz.

[MDL111]

For a car that came with 2 from the factory, I would rather not be the test case if somebody gets seriously injured in the back and sues me for some retarded amount of money and the insurance skips out. Admittedly a very unlikely scenario, but easier to just buy a car with 4 imo. And I run most of my cars insured third party only, so am not exactly averse to risk.