Boxster 986 3.2 S advice please.
Discussion
Hi all,
Fistly sorry for the length of this – bit of an epic I’m afraid!
Looking at buying one of the above as a bit of a toy - probably around 5k miles/year and kept on a driveway. Absolute max budget of £10k. Currently own a BMW 320d (E91 vintage), lightly tweaked, that I'll be keeping along side the Porsche.
I took one out from a localish dealer a couple of days ago, and now I have a benchmark to work from I've got a bunch of questions. The car in question was an '03 plate with 65k on the clock, OPC stamps in the logbook but no other history. In particular - no evidence that the dreaded IMS bearing had ever been looked at. It was close to my £10k budget. Fresh MOT from the selling garage.
First issue was that it wouldn't start... Battery had died whilst the car had been standing. As soon as it was connected to a jump pack it behaved fine. Dealer claimed "oh they all do that if left standing". Really...? The mechanic claimed the battery was quite new. If so - how long can one expect a Boxster to be left standing for before it discharges the battery? (doing this on a regular basis is a sure fire way to knacker a lead acid battery).
The interior was rather a mess - certainly enough to put me off buying this particular vehicle. Was I just unlucky, or do the interiors not hold up too well? We're talking nicks on the dashboard, both seats were scuffed, the plastic behind the drivers door pull was covered in key gouges and the gear knob looked like someone had taken a power sander to it. My Beemer has well over twice the mileage gets used for bike carrying and DIY runs and in comparison is in showroom condition...
On starting there was a good puff of blue smoke, which cleared after a second or 2. I believe this is normal? Once settled at idle it ticked quite loudly - maybe 2 or 3 hz? Sounded more like an old aircooled VW bus rather than something more modern. Again – normal for a flat 6 engine?
Clutch - I've read that the clutch should be "as light as the lightest car you've ever driven". This one wasn't. It wasn't stupidly heavy, but it wasn't as easy as the BMW. Is this a sign it's on the way out?
Brakes – These were distinctly disconcerting. OK, maybe the car had been left standing, but even after a decent blast, although pedal feel was fine, I never felt any real confidence in them. Pretty much every car/van/truck I’ve ever driven has had “stop” and “go” requiring roughly the same proportion of effort. This had a metric s
t-ton of go, but I was regularly having to brace myself back into the seat and use leg strength to bleed off speed for corners rather than just foot flex. I believe Porsche brakes are “less overservoed” than most – is this just what I’m experiencing? If I was on a mountainbike I’d say the pads were glazed or the fluid was old…
All 4 discs had a distinct lip on – maybe 2-3mm on each side. What does this imply about potential lifespan – are they going to need changing soon, or is there still plenty of life left?
Steering – Once some lock was wound on, it felt pretty good, however there was a distinct wooliness/sloppiness maybe 10 degrees either side of centre - felt more like an arcade game than a car. How normal is this?
Once out on the road (a nice lumpy windy B-road
) there were an awful lot of thumps creaks and rattles. Over camber changes it really did feel like the car was flexing quite heavily behind the seats, which I was very surprised about – certainly not the “hewn from stone” feel I’d expect from a low/mid-mileage piece of Teutonic engineering. There was also a very persistent thump/clunk when driving over catseyes or square edged potholes. I thought it was suspension related, but the guy from the showroom was convinced it was plastic undertray. When we got back we had a look-see under the car and he found an area under the passenger seat where 2 bits of undertray overlapped. When tapped it made the same kind of noise, however it looked like it had been put together the way the factory intended, so I’m surprised it would rattle like that. Your thoughts…? Any combination of noises like that from my own car and it would be in bits in the yard with me trying to work out what was wrong…
Overall I very much enjoyed the driving experience. I’ve owned diesels for the last 15 odd years, so this is a very pleasant change, and despite the BMW being a competent A & B-road car, this was a whole step-change, whilst not being unusable at lower speeds. However there were plenty of things niggling me about this particular one, so I need to go and drive some more!
Any comments and advice gratefully received!
Cheers!
BL
Fistly sorry for the length of this – bit of an epic I’m afraid!
Looking at buying one of the above as a bit of a toy - probably around 5k miles/year and kept on a driveway. Absolute max budget of £10k. Currently own a BMW 320d (E91 vintage), lightly tweaked, that I'll be keeping along side the Porsche.
I took one out from a localish dealer a couple of days ago, and now I have a benchmark to work from I've got a bunch of questions. The car in question was an '03 plate with 65k on the clock, OPC stamps in the logbook but no other history. In particular - no evidence that the dreaded IMS bearing had ever been looked at. It was close to my £10k budget. Fresh MOT from the selling garage.
First issue was that it wouldn't start... Battery had died whilst the car had been standing. As soon as it was connected to a jump pack it behaved fine. Dealer claimed "oh they all do that if left standing". Really...? The mechanic claimed the battery was quite new. If so - how long can one expect a Boxster to be left standing for before it discharges the battery? (doing this on a regular basis is a sure fire way to knacker a lead acid battery).
The interior was rather a mess - certainly enough to put me off buying this particular vehicle. Was I just unlucky, or do the interiors not hold up too well? We're talking nicks on the dashboard, both seats were scuffed, the plastic behind the drivers door pull was covered in key gouges and the gear knob looked like someone had taken a power sander to it. My Beemer has well over twice the mileage gets used for bike carrying and DIY runs and in comparison is in showroom condition...
On starting there was a good puff of blue smoke, which cleared after a second or 2. I believe this is normal? Once settled at idle it ticked quite loudly - maybe 2 or 3 hz? Sounded more like an old aircooled VW bus rather than something more modern. Again – normal for a flat 6 engine?
Clutch - I've read that the clutch should be "as light as the lightest car you've ever driven". This one wasn't. It wasn't stupidly heavy, but it wasn't as easy as the BMW. Is this a sign it's on the way out?
Brakes – These were distinctly disconcerting. OK, maybe the car had been left standing, but even after a decent blast, although pedal feel was fine, I never felt any real confidence in them. Pretty much every car/van/truck I’ve ever driven has had “stop” and “go” requiring roughly the same proportion of effort. This had a metric s
t-ton of go, but I was regularly having to brace myself back into the seat and use leg strength to bleed off speed for corners rather than just foot flex. I believe Porsche brakes are “less overservoed” than most – is this just what I’m experiencing? If I was on a mountainbike I’d say the pads were glazed or the fluid was old…All 4 discs had a distinct lip on – maybe 2-3mm on each side. What does this imply about potential lifespan – are they going to need changing soon, or is there still plenty of life left?
Steering – Once some lock was wound on, it felt pretty good, however there was a distinct wooliness/sloppiness maybe 10 degrees either side of centre - felt more like an arcade game than a car. How normal is this?
Once out on the road (a nice lumpy windy B-road
) there were an awful lot of thumps creaks and rattles. Over camber changes it really did feel like the car was flexing quite heavily behind the seats, which I was very surprised about – certainly not the “hewn from stone” feel I’d expect from a low/mid-mileage piece of Teutonic engineering. There was also a very persistent thump/clunk when driving over catseyes or square edged potholes. I thought it was suspension related, but the guy from the showroom was convinced it was plastic undertray. When we got back we had a look-see under the car and he found an area under the passenger seat where 2 bits of undertray overlapped. When tapped it made the same kind of noise, however it looked like it had been put together the way the factory intended, so I’m surprised it would rattle like that. Your thoughts…? Any combination of noises like that from my own car and it would be in bits in the yard with me trying to work out what was wrong…Overall I very much enjoyed the driving experience. I’ve owned diesels for the last 15 odd years, so this is a very pleasant change, and despite the BMW being a competent A & B-road car, this was a whole step-change, whilst not being unusable at lower speeds. However there were plenty of things niggling me about this particular one, so I need to go and drive some more!
Any comments and advice gratefully received!
Cheers!
BL
Firstly: at the price I'd expect the interior to be in much better condition than you describe.
986s do flex a bit, but I'd recommend you try a few to get the feel of what's normal in this and other areas - including clutch and brake feel. Clutch should be lighter than the E90 (I've owned both), but brakes need a good amount of pedal effort - but not to the point that you're pushing into the seat back. Try a full emergency stop and see what happens - it should stop straight and fast. Large lips on discs will mean replacement soon or better still immediately.
Clunking suspension is common, and may be worn out bushes or drop links, can't say I've heard of under trays knocking though.
From what you're describing, it's a high price for a car in less than perfect condition and with some work required to put right.
986s do flex a bit, but I'd recommend you try a few to get the feel of what's normal in this and other areas - including clutch and brake feel. Clutch should be lighter than the E90 (I've owned both), but brakes need a good amount of pedal effort - but not to the point that you're pushing into the seat back. Try a full emergency stop and see what happens - it should stop straight and fast. Large lips on discs will mean replacement soon or better still immediately.
Clunking suspension is common, and may be worn out bushes or drop links, can't say I've heard of under trays knocking though.
From what you're describing, it's a high price for a car in less than perfect condition and with some work required to put right.
Sounds like a car that needs several thousand spending... I wouldn't give £5k for that one. I think you're better off looking for a car that has had the work done already.
Clutches are heavy when they are on their way out. New clutches are pretty light for a sports car.
Brakes - likely corroded on their inner face. Makes them feel "wooden" and needs a lot of pressure to stop the car. Brakes are great when discs are in good order
Suspension clunks when worn - the car is pretty quiet when all is well, although I get the odd creak from the hood.
Steering is pretty good, certainly should be better than a BMW
Mine doesn't drain the battery, can sit for weeks unused
Interiors depend so much on the previous owner(s)... seat bolsters can get scuffed but are repairable, plastics can be replaced.
The good thing is that there are plenty around, you'll find something much better for your budget. Don't forget to check the hood, a/c condensors, rads, expansion tank as well - all potential weak points.
The very early 3.2S are supposed to have the double row bearing - although there's no way of knowing for sure. That could reduce the risk of failure.
(btw mine fits the bill on pretty much all of the above, you can have it for a fair bit less than £10k
)
cmoose will be along in a minute to expand on all the above...
Clutches are heavy when they are on their way out. New clutches are pretty light for a sports car.
Brakes - likely corroded on their inner face. Makes them feel "wooden" and needs a lot of pressure to stop the car. Brakes are great when discs are in good order
Suspension clunks when worn - the car is pretty quiet when all is well, although I get the odd creak from the hood.
Steering is pretty good, certainly should be better than a BMW
Mine doesn't drain the battery, can sit for weeks unused
Interiors depend so much on the previous owner(s)... seat bolsters can get scuffed but are repairable, plastics can be replaced.
The good thing is that there are plenty around, you'll find something much better for your budget. Don't forget to check the hood, a/c condensors, rads, expansion tank as well - all potential weak points.
The very early 3.2S are supposed to have the double row bearing - although there's no way of knowing for sure. That could reduce the risk of failure.
(btw mine fits the bill on pretty much all of the above, you can have it for a fair bit less than £10k
)cmoose will be along in a minute to expand on all the above...
I bought a 75K miler, 2001 , 3.2S a couple of years back as a 'toy'.
I paid £6K for it, and have paid almost the same again to get it all spot on, so make sure you do your homework and buy one that has been looked after and sorted.
Mine looked fantastic, the bodywork and interior in perfect condition. But to get it as good as I remember one I bought new back in 2001, I replaced / fixed:
All Tyres replaced with Michelin
New brake discs and pads
New roof (glass one fitted))
Air con condensors and a few pipes
Ignition barrel
2 Air Oil separators, until I realised it was...
New cylinder head to replace cracked one.
With regards to the feel of driving they are a funny beast. When I first bought mine it felt alright just pootling around but it all went a bit wrong when the speed built up. Much of this was down to the budget tyres it had and the corroded discs. But sorted like mine is now it can still feel a bit notchy, soft, and heavy when you first get in from a modern car. But give it 2 mins to warm up and start giving it some stick and everything just suddenly feels perfect, like a precision tool. Lovely
I paid £6K for it, and have paid almost the same again to get it all spot on, so make sure you do your homework and buy one that has been looked after and sorted.
Mine looked fantastic, the bodywork and interior in perfect condition. But to get it as good as I remember one I bought new back in 2001, I replaced / fixed:
All Tyres replaced with Michelin
New brake discs and pads
New roof (glass one fitted))
Air con condensors and a few pipes
Ignition barrel
2 Air Oil separators, until I realised it was...
New cylinder head to replace cracked one.
With regards to the feel of driving they are a funny beast. When I first bought mine it felt alright just pootling around but it all went a bit wrong when the speed built up. Much of this was down to the budget tyres it had and the corroded discs. But sorted like mine is now it can still feel a bit notchy, soft, and heavy when you first get in from a modern car. But give it 2 mins to warm up and start giving it some stick and everything just suddenly feels perfect, like a precision tool. Lovely
Just back from taking a different one out. 30k more miles, £3k cheaper.
On the whole a MUCH nicer car. Started with no issues, interior much cleaner (one or 2 marks but not unreasonable), no loud ticking at idle and altogether felt much more coherent to drive - no rattles and thumps, no shuddering and no vague steering. History was much better too - big folder of receipts and MOTs for all the main services, although it still wasn't quite as detailed as I'd like, particularly over the last couple of years, where it's barely been used.
Wasn't without it's downsides - brake lines under the near side sill were really quite scabby, there was a little patch of rust right at the back end of the nearside rear wheelarch (could have been a stone chip that's festered) and the aircon didn't run cold. I had a peer in through the bumper vents and couldn't see any obvious piles of crap around the condesers, but it still makes me wary that there's a decent sized bill to get that working again!
The spec wasn't perfect either - no heated seats (how easy is this to retrofit? Is it just a wiring/coding job, or do the seats need replacing too?) and a crap stereo. Neither of those are dealbreakers, just annoying.
I'd say it was reasoanble value for money, this one - just still not "right".
On the whole a MUCH nicer car. Started with no issues, interior much cleaner (one or 2 marks but not unreasonable), no loud ticking at idle and altogether felt much more coherent to drive - no rattles and thumps, no shuddering and no vague steering. History was much better too - big folder of receipts and MOTs for all the main services, although it still wasn't quite as detailed as I'd like, particularly over the last couple of years, where it's barely been used.
Wasn't without it's downsides - brake lines under the near side sill were really quite scabby, there was a little patch of rust right at the back end of the nearside rear wheelarch (could have been a stone chip that's festered) and the aircon didn't run cold. I had a peer in through the bumper vents and couldn't see any obvious piles of crap around the condesers, but it still makes me wary that there's a decent sized bill to get that working again!
The spec wasn't perfect either - no heated seats (how easy is this to retrofit? Is it just a wiring/coding job, or do the seats need replacing too?) and a crap stereo. Neither of those are dealbreakers, just annoying.
I'd say it was reasoanble value for money, this one - just still not "right".
Very hard to find a good over I reckon.
Mine was OK. The only thing that went wrong was the hood. A cable broke. Thanks to the good advice of someone on here I got it fixed by a local specialist.
However the car was dynamically horrid. The shocks were shot and I suspect some other worn bits going on in the suspension. I decided to sell rather than fix.
One problem is that with prices so low, the price of a good one is going to look high in comparison with the rest. 3 or 4k premium for a good one is 50% higher than an average one.
Good luck in the search.
Bert
Mine was OK. The only thing that went wrong was the hood. A cable broke. Thanks to the good advice of someone on here I got it fixed by a local specialist.
However the car was dynamically horrid. The shocks were shot and I suspect some other worn bits going on in the suspension. I decided to sell rather than fix.
One problem is that with prices so low, the price of a good one is going to look high in comparison with the rest. 3 or 4k premium for a good one is 50% higher than an average one.
Good luck in the search.
Bert
DarkMatter said:
I don't really understand why the clutch would require more force on the pedal when it is worn out, can someone explain please?
As I understand it the friction disc wears, gets thinner, and as a result the hardware moves/changes position slightly to accommodate the wear and the mechanical linkage can lose some leverage advantage and as a result the clutch pedal effort goes up.Rockster said:
DarkMatter said:
I don't really understand why the clutch would require more force on the pedal when it is worn out, can someone explain please?
As I understand it the friction disc wears, gets thinner, and as a result the hardware moves/changes position slightly to accommodate the wear and the mechanical linkage can lose some leverage advantage and as a result the clutch pedal effort goes up.As a 986 2.5 owner, I can offer that the car is very sensitive to tyres - both inflation and condition. Given that some of the larger wheels have very wide alloys at the back, a duff tyre can throw out all sorts of symptoms with steering, dynamics, etc.
Suspension is also an issue at this age. Between the top mounts, drop links, coffin arms and anti-roll bar bushings, these can also have a play on driving dynamics and how the car sounds.
Finally, the brakes take a while to get used to! I hopped from a series of modern hatchbacks, so being used to sensitive modern brakes meant that the Porsche took a while to get used to. My brother summed it up: "excellent at slowing you down through some curves, but take a bit of confidence that they'll bring you to a complete stop".
Suspension is also an issue at this age. Between the top mounts, drop links, coffin arms and anti-roll bar bushings, these can also have a play on driving dynamics and how the car sounds.
Finally, the brakes take a while to get used to! I hopped from a series of modern hatchbacks, so being used to sensitive modern brakes meant that the Porsche took a while to get used to. My brother summed it up: "excellent at slowing you down through some curves, but take a bit of confidence that they'll bring you to a complete stop".
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff