Newbie Boxster problems
Discussion
Hi,
I'm hoping I'll be able to get some advice on my current situation.
I bought a "07 Boxster 2.7 with 74k miles from a well known dealer ( not OPC) for just under £13k.
And that's when the problems started.
Firsy with a coolant leak- due to a pump failure, which was changed under warranty.
A week after I got it back, I noted some rattling from the driver side, more obvious when the engine was warm. Got it looked into, at the local porsche dealer.
They did a bore scope, and found scoring in cylinder 6.
This is where the problems started.
The warranty company won't pay for dismantling and looking at the engine, if the fault is not due to the scoring.
They also won't pay the full amount of the engine rebuild which the garage has adviced, as its above the claim limit. This alone could leave out of pocket by £3000.
And if the rattling isn't due to the scoring, they won't fix it as they only pay for "sudden failure".
So I am taking it back to the dealer I bought it from to look at it.
My question is, if the rattling isn't due to the scoring, can I ask them to do an engine rebuild anyways, due to the significant scoring, as the quality of the car I bought from them was not of satisfactory quality?
I've had it for only about 8 weeks so far.
I absolutely love the car, and this being my first one, and gutted at the experience I am having.
Just wanted some advice on what you guys think I should do, accept as a reasonable offer.
Thank for your advice,
😞
I'm hoping I'll be able to get some advice on my current situation.
I bought a "07 Boxster 2.7 with 74k miles from a well known dealer ( not OPC) for just under £13k.
And that's when the problems started.
Firsy with a coolant leak- due to a pump failure, which was changed under warranty.
A week after I got it back, I noted some rattling from the driver side, more obvious when the engine was warm. Got it looked into, at the local porsche dealer.
They did a bore scope, and found scoring in cylinder 6.
This is where the problems started.
The warranty company won't pay for dismantling and looking at the engine, if the fault is not due to the scoring.
They also won't pay the full amount of the engine rebuild which the garage has adviced, as its above the claim limit. This alone could leave out of pocket by £3000.
And if the rattling isn't due to the scoring, they won't fix it as they only pay for "sudden failure".
So I am taking it back to the dealer I bought it from to look at it.
My question is, if the rattling isn't due to the scoring, can I ask them to do an engine rebuild anyways, due to the significant scoring, as the quality of the car I bought from them was not of satisfactory quality?
I've had it for only about 8 weeks so far.
I absolutely love the car, and this being my first one, and gutted at the experience I am having.
Just wanted some advice on what you guys think I should do, accept as a reasonable offer.
Thank for your advice,
😞
My best advice would be to have the dealer buy it back for what you paid for it. Then go and find another one. For me this is a head rather than heart decision.
It's up to the dealer to prove the fault didn't exist when he sold you the car. If he can't do that and you become aware of it within a reasonable time/ mileage then he should make you whole.
It's way easier to have him buy it back than get into a whole argument about what is wrong/ how to fix it/ who should fix it etc. In the meantime you won't be using the car and your happy purchase will become a source of angst.
These problems can be repaired for reasonable money but personally there are only one or two people in the UK I'd trust to do the work. For example, if your dealer offers to pay for Hartech to rebuild the engine (or to make a significant contribution to the cost of doing so) then that might be worth considering.
Hope this helps.
It's up to the dealer to prove the fault didn't exist when he sold you the car. If he can't do that and you become aware of it within a reasonable time/ mileage then he should make you whole.
It's way easier to have him buy it back than get into a whole argument about what is wrong/ how to fix it/ who should fix it etc. In the meantime you won't be using the car and your happy purchase will become a source of angst.
These problems can be repaired for reasonable money but personally there are only one or two people in the UK I'd trust to do the work. For example, if your dealer offers to pay for Hartech to rebuild the engine (or to make a significant contribution to the cost of doing so) then that might be worth considering.
Hope this helps.
I totally agree warrenty is not the way to go as they can be limited as you mention.
I think legally if you have found a fault with the car in a reasonable timeframe then it is reasonable for the garage to take the car back, and this must be the preferred option over a rather messy engine rebuild negotation... However whether they will take it back is a different story, they should but unless they are very good you will have to apply some pressure.
Good luck, strange 2.7 don't normally suffer bore scoring I thought, but I'm no expert
I think legally if you have found a fault with the car in a reasonable timeframe then it is reasonable for the garage to take the car back, and this must be the preferred option over a rather messy engine rebuild negotation... However whether they will take it back is a different story, they should but unless they are very good you will have to apply some pressure.
Good luck, strange 2.7 don't normally suffer bore scoring I thought, but I'm no expert
Hi,
Thanks so much for your advice. I am hoping that they give me either the money back / a credit note ( not ideal ). But given the experience I have had so far with them, I am going to be prepared for some pressure from their end.
I'd agree about hartech- spoken to them as well, and they advised the same.Talk about honesty and not in it to make a quick buck!!
Fingers crossed they are reasonable when I take the car to them this weekend.
Thanks so much for your advice. I am hoping that they give me either the money back / a credit note ( not ideal ). But given the experience I have had so far with them, I am going to be prepared for some pressure from their end.
I'd agree about hartech- spoken to them as well, and they advised the same.Talk about honesty and not in it to make a quick buck!!
Fingers crossed they are reasonable when I take the car to them this weekend.
Good luck with it at the weekend.
The other thing I'd say is to make sure (if you haven't done already) that you put your concerns in writing - you can be brief and polite and clear about the problem.
You are entitled to cash - you don't need to settle for a credit note.
If you have a report from an OPC saying there is a bore scoring problem then they should accept that. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time - it's how they are put right that matters. If you give them the two options either to buy it back or have Hartech fix it you are being reasonable.
If you set that out to them today in an email hopefully they'll have reflected on that by the time you see them at the weekend and it will be a relatively pain free conversation.
Let us know how you get on.
The other thing I'd say is to make sure (if you haven't done already) that you put your concerns in writing - you can be brief and polite and clear about the problem.
You are entitled to cash - you don't need to settle for a credit note.
If you have a report from an OPC saying there is a bore scoring problem then they should accept that. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time - it's how they are put right that matters. If you give them the two options either to buy it back or have Hartech fix it you are being reasonable.
If you set that out to them today in an email hopefully they'll have reflected on that by the time you see them at the weekend and it will be a relatively pain free conversation.
Let us know how you get on.
If I do get my money back, I was looking at an approved used Boxster 981 from an OPC, under a PCP.
The deal is as below - appreciate what you guys think.
2013 Plate - black with PCM / Bose, PDK, seat heating.
Retail price - 35,990.
Deposit - 7000
Monthly - 477.75 - 48 months term - Final payment of 13,870.
Too much to pay?
The deal is as below - appreciate what you guys think.
2013 Plate - black with PCM / Bose, PDK, seat heating.
Retail price - 35,990.
Deposit - 7000
Monthly - 477.75 - 48 months term - Final payment of 13,870.
Too much to pay?
The problem is that your car seems to have suffered a certain amount of "wear and tear" which is hard to quantify. All used cars are, by definition, subject to some wear and tear. This car is eight years old with considerable miles on it; it hasn't "broken down". How long since you bought it?
I think your practical choices may come down to,
1. Try to agree something with the seller,
2. Get a solicitor on the case, or
3. Sell the car and move on.
It will be a tricky juggling exercise between 2 and 3 to decide which is likely to be the most cost-effective.
I think your practical choices may come down to,
1. Try to agree something with the seller,
2. Get a solicitor on the case, or
3. Sell the car and move on.
It will be a tricky juggling exercise between 2 and 3 to decide which is likely to be the most cost-effective.
Hi Ozzie,
I've had the car for 8 weeks, and for 2 of them, they have been in a garage.
Would Bore scoring be considered as wear & tear?
I am ok to sel the car, but I doubt Ill find anyone to buy it with the current rattling, and if they decide to- I will lose a considerable amount of money.
Hence the stress!
I've had the car for 8 weeks, and for 2 of them, they have been in a garage.
Would Bore scoring be considered as wear & tear?
I am ok to sel the car, but I doubt Ill find anyone to buy it with the current rattling, and if they decide to- I will lose a considerable amount of money.
Hence the stress!
8 weeks with 2 weeks in the garage, they should take the car back, but the problem is the legal mechanism to force them to do this is rather long winded and a little bit costly.
Thus applying pressure on the things they care about is probably important, I would leave the car with them, it's good it's been there for 2 weeks before, but just leave it there and say you want a refund. Hopefully they will be fine, but if not apply pressure, they are like any place worried about there reputation and that's a pretty strong weapon for the buyer these days.
Thus applying pressure on the things they care about is probably important, I would leave the car with them, it's good it's been there for 2 weeks before, but just leave it there and say you want a refund. Hopefully they will be fine, but if not apply pressure, they are like any place worried about there reputation and that's a pretty strong weapon for the buyer these days.
I totally agree warrenty is not the way to go as they can be limited as you mention.
I think legally if you have found a fault with the car in a reasonable timeframe then it is reasonable for the garage to take the car back, and this must be the preferred option over a rather messy engine rebuild negotation... However whether they will take it back is a different story, they should but unless they are very good you will have to apply some pressure.
Good luck, strange 2.7 don't normally suffer bore scoring I thought, but I'm no expert
I think legally if you have found a fault with the car in a reasonable timeframe then it is reasonable for the garage to take the car back, and this must be the preferred option over a rather messy engine rebuild negotation... However whether they will take it back is a different story, they should but unless they are very good you will have to apply some pressure.
Good luck, strange 2.7 don't normally suffer bore scoring I thought, but I'm no expert
Oso said:
Good luck with it at the weekend.
The other thing I'd say is to make sure (if you haven't done already) that you put your concerns in writing - you can be brief and polite and clear about the problem.
You are entitled to cash - you don't need to settle for a credit note.
If you have a report from an OPC saying there is a bore scoring problem then they should accept that. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time - it's how they are put right that matters. If you give them the two options either to buy it back or have Hartech fix it you are being reasonable.
If you set that out to them today in an email hopefully they'll have reflected on that by the time you see them at the weekend and it will be a relatively pain free conversation.
Let us know how you get on.
I'd second this advice from OSO, with a report from OPC saying that the bore scoring is not usual wear and tear, you will be in a strong position, so drop them a clear and friendly email up front to say you're looking for a refund on the car or have OPC or an expert fix it. The dealer's only "get out" is fair wear & tear, if you close that avenue before you get there you should have less to discuss when you go down. Bad luck for both you & the dealer on this one, but hopefully if they are well known they will stand by the car.The other thing I'd say is to make sure (if you haven't done already) that you put your concerns in writing - you can be brief and polite and clear about the problem.
You are entitled to cash - you don't need to settle for a credit note.
If you have a report from an OPC saying there is a bore scoring problem then they should accept that. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time - it's how they are put right that matters. If you give them the two options either to buy it back or have Hartech fix it you are being reasonable.
If you set that out to them today in an email hopefully they'll have reflected on that by the time you see them at the weekend and it will be a relatively pain free conversation.
Let us know how you get on.
Regarding your next purchase, the one you have mentioned is quite a departure from your current car, more than twice the cost. When you have a problem on a used car it is tempting to want to run to safety, but you could lose more than the cost of an engine rebuild just in dealer mark up on a hasty purchase so don't rush into anything! Bear in mind that PCP deals on used OPC cars are at a higher rate of interest than new cars, you may be able to buy a brand new one for similar total cost to a 2 year old used one. Get your current problem sorted first, then think about the next car with a clear head is my advice
Good luck..
Not a silly question. If you have the right folks do the rebuild it won't partiuclarly devalue the car. It may put some folks off. But others will be reassured that a credible builder has been over it carefully. But having it rebuilt now is not going to make it particularly sought after. Where it might make a difference would be to yourself, if you were to keep it long enough and put enough miles on it.
Other cars of roughly similar age and mileage are still available in the main dealer network from time to time, or at least privately with the official Porsche warranty. (It's a transition age for cars like yours because to be an official approved car they need to be young enough to have two years warranty on them and be under ten when that expires). That is effectively putting a ceiling on the value of your car. So although all engines need rebuilt at some point, the fact that yours may (end up) having been done already is not going to make it particularly sought after.
There's also the question of how much you'd spend on the rebuild. Do you strip it down and replace the one cylinder? - say £3k or do you do all six cylinders whilst you're in there and everything else whilst you're about it? - say £8k. It depends on what exactly you find once you open it up. But basically the fair value of your car now before doing the work that needs done ought to reflect the cost of doing that work, if that makes sense.
So you said you paid £13k for your car. Your dealer would obviously have bought it for less than that, I'd guess £10k. If your car needs £3k of engine work it's now worth £7k. Note also your dealer probably has enough margin in the trade to cover the cost. Even if he doesn't it's tough luck - that's part of the reason the market allows dealers to make a profit on the stuff they get right - to help cover the cost of fixing what they get wrong.
And don't worry about the next guy - that's for the dealer's conscience and the next buyer to worry about. One would hope the dealer is good enough to fess up. My guess is he'll put it to auction and cut his losses or get a specialist to rebuild the engine and then put it back on the market on that basis.
Anyway, a rather long answer. As you can see it's easier just to have him buy it back and find another...
Other cars of roughly similar age and mileage are still available in the main dealer network from time to time, or at least privately with the official Porsche warranty. (It's a transition age for cars like yours because to be an official approved car they need to be young enough to have two years warranty on them and be under ten when that expires). That is effectively putting a ceiling on the value of your car. So although all engines need rebuilt at some point, the fact that yours may (end up) having been done already is not going to make it particularly sought after.
There's also the question of how much you'd spend on the rebuild. Do you strip it down and replace the one cylinder? - say £3k or do you do all six cylinders whilst you're in there and everything else whilst you're about it? - say £8k. It depends on what exactly you find once you open it up. But basically the fair value of your car now before doing the work that needs done ought to reflect the cost of doing that work, if that makes sense.
So you said you paid £13k for your car. Your dealer would obviously have bought it for less than that, I'd guess £10k. If your car needs £3k of engine work it's now worth £7k. Note also your dealer probably has enough margin in the trade to cover the cost. Even if he doesn't it's tough luck - that's part of the reason the market allows dealers to make a profit on the stuff they get right - to help cover the cost of fixing what they get wrong.
And don't worry about the next guy - that's for the dealer's conscience and the next buyer to worry about. One would hope the dealer is good enough to fess up. My guess is he'll put it to auction and cut his losses or get a specialist to rebuild the engine and then put it back on the market on that basis.
Anyway, a rather long answer. As you can see it's easier just to have him buy it back and find another...
Hey Oso,
It went ok yesterday.
The sales manager said he couldn't hear anything!! Strange consider 2 other technicians could.
Said he would send it to his porsche approved garage ( in Leeds- I'm sure you'll know who) to have a look at this "noise".
And about the bore scoring, said its normal, and they won't rebuild the engine as it is working, and nothing has gone wrong.
So as of now, he's given me 3 options.
1.hed buy it back from me for £10750.
2.i can part ex with a car from their group and he'd get me a "better deal.
3. Nothing is found and I take the car back.
Tempted to take the cheque, but a loss of approximately £2200 seems a lot for 8-10 weeks of owing a car!!
Any suggestions?
It went ok yesterday.
The sales manager said he couldn't hear anything!! Strange consider 2 other technicians could.
Said he would send it to his porsche approved garage ( in Leeds- I'm sure you'll know who) to have a look at this "noise".
And about the bore scoring, said its normal, and they won't rebuild the engine as it is working, and nothing has gone wrong.
So as of now, he's given me 3 options.
1.hed buy it back from me for £10750.
2.i can part ex with a car from their group and he'd get me a "better deal.
3. Nothing is found and I take the car back.
Tempted to take the cheque, but a loss of approximately £2200 seems a lot for 8-10 weeks of owing a car!!
Any suggestions?
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