M3 to Cayman S - Weekend/Track car
Discussion
So I currently have an E92 M3. I guess you could describe it's spec as close to the M3 GTS - intrax suspension, big brakes, titanium exhaust with a 35bhp power bump and a bit of weight saving (weighed at 20kg heavier than a GTS) in the form of Recaro Pole Positions.
The car is quick, good enough for an amateur like me to put in a 2:55 on my first visit to Spa on a cold April day, but there's definitely something missing - it's almost too refined and as such it's lacking in involvement/fun. I originally started looking at the Elise/Exige, but I'm concerned about making the car useless for the road and declining into someone who always picks up the keys to the X3 because I can't be arsed to get in and out over that big lotus sill.
So this brought me to look at the Cayman S - a quick look around the internet suggests the 981 Cayman S is faster than a standard E92 and similar to the GTS in terms of lap time, which surprised me, for sure!
So how does it hold up as a proposition for weekend/track? Is it reliable? Are the standard brakes up to track work with upgraded pads and fluid?
Can I find a good 981 for < £40k? Any I've found in that price bracket are missing PASM - does it matter?
What about the Boxster S? While the Cayman looks better, I did always like the idea of a soft top and you seem to get a lot more car for your money with the Boxster?
Lastly, does it even need to be a 981? Does a 987 with some budget for upgrades provide a better proposition for the use case?
Thank you in advance to anyone that can be bothered to decipher this post and make any attempt at answering my questions - it'll be very much appreciated
The car is quick, good enough for an amateur like me to put in a 2:55 on my first visit to Spa on a cold April day, but there's definitely something missing - it's almost too refined and as such it's lacking in involvement/fun. I originally started looking at the Elise/Exige, but I'm concerned about making the car useless for the road and declining into someone who always picks up the keys to the X3 because I can't be arsed to get in and out over that big lotus sill.
So this brought me to look at the Cayman S - a quick look around the internet suggests the 981 Cayman S is faster than a standard E92 and similar to the GTS in terms of lap time, which surprised me, for sure!
So how does it hold up as a proposition for weekend/track? Is it reliable? Are the standard brakes up to track work with upgraded pads and fluid?
Can I find a good 981 for < £40k? Any I've found in that price bracket are missing PASM - does it matter?
What about the Boxster S? While the Cayman looks better, I did always like the idea of a soft top and you seem to get a lot more car for your money with the Boxster?
Lastly, does it even need to be a 981? Does a 987 with some budget for upgrades provide a better proposition for the use case?
Thank you in advance to anyone that can be bothered to decipher this post and make any attempt at answering my questions - it'll be very much appreciated
Edited by mpit on Sunday 8th May 09:35
You could go for a 987.2 which will give you the much more reliable dfi engine essential for track use. Good 'S' versions of these can be had now for mid to high £20K's and don't require a hugh amount doing to them for track use. A pad and fluid upgrade together with braided lines and front GT3 cooling ducts is usually all that's required for the brakes unless you are very hard on them and you may then need to upgrade the discs as well. The biggest area for attention is the suspension geo. You will require longer front track control arms to get around 2-2.5 deg camber otherwise the stock settings will eat your front tyres.
I don't know if you will find a Cayman S any quicker than your BMW but it will certainly provide more of a fun factor.
I don't know if you will find a Cayman S any quicker than your BMW but it will certainly provide more of a fun factor.
Thanks. Yeah, I'm not necessarily looking to go faster, I just want to avoid being significantly slower.
How does the 987.2 compare to the 981? I have to say, the 981 sure looks better and seems like a nicer place to be inside, but ultimately, I'm all about getting the best experience on track in a car that I can still enjoy on the road.
How does the 987.2 compare to the 981? I have to say, the 981 sure looks better and seems like a nicer place to be inside, but ultimately, I'm all about getting the best experience on track in a car that I can still enjoy on the road.
As you say, the 981 is a better place to be and certainly more modern. It is also much more digital than the 987 which of course makes it less enjoyable on track imo. One of the main factors contributing to this is the 981's electric steering in place of the 987's hydraulic. If you read any of the road tests thay all say it has taken the feel away.
i think you just need to bolt in a harness bar or weld in a roll cage (if you haven't already) and remove the sound deadening.
should be intense enough. Still can't get away from the fact that it is a heavy car though...
or try the e46 m3
make no mistake the cayman in 981 or 987 form is an awesome ground up sportscar that is value for money but you'd still need to chuck plenty at it in suspension and brake mods. I think about it ALL the time.
still feel the new elise cup 250 is the better turn key package though......
should be intense enough. Still can't get away from the fact that it is a heavy car though...
or try the e46 m3
make no mistake the cayman in 981 or 987 form is an awesome ground up sportscar that is value for money but you'd still need to chuck plenty at it in suspension and brake mods. I think about it ALL the time.
still feel the new elise cup 250 is the better turn key package though......
Trev450 said:
As you say, the 981 is a better place to be and certainly more modern. It is also much more digital than the 987 which of course makes it less enjoyable on track imo. One of the main factors contributing to this is the 981's electric steering in place of the 987's hydraulic. If you read any of the road tests thay all say it has taken the feel away.
I suppose I'd need to drive both and see what the deal was. HokumPokum said:
i think you just need to bolt in a harness bar or weld in a roll cage (if you haven't already) and remove the sound deadening.
should be intense enough. Still can't get away from the fact that it is a heavy car though...
or try the e46 m3
make no mistake the cayman in 981 or 987 form is an awesome ground up sportscar that is value for money but you'd still need to chuck plenty at it in suspension and brake mods. I think about it ALL the time.
still feel the new elise cup 250 is the better turn key package though......
The thing is, as soon as I end up caging mine, I may as well get an Exige that is going to be a far more rewarding car to drive, IMO.should be intense enough. Still can't get away from the fact that it is a heavy car though...
or try the e46 m3
make no mistake the cayman in 981 or 987 form is an awesome ground up sportscar that is value for money but you'd still need to chuck plenty at it in suspension and brake mods. I think about it ALL the time.
still feel the new elise cup 250 is the better turn key package though......
The appeal of staying where I am is that it's still a perfectly good road car with four seats, it's just lacking the specialness and involvement.
The Elise Cup 250 does look good, but out of budget. One of the cars that appeals is the Elise S Club racer, which actually seems like it'd give a S2 Exige a run for it's money, but the downside is it's compromise as a road car. It does look awesome with the aero package, though!
If I was to do the E46 thing, it'd have to be stripped out and caged, which again, is useless on the road.
HokumPokum said:
My csl is pretty much useless on the road. It is road legal and simply gets me to the track where it earns its living.
Caymans are way more road friendly if you need a dual purpose car. But you won't get the rawness either.
One size fits all tends to be compromised unfortunately
I think a standardish CSL would do the one size fits all just fine for me. Caymans are way more road friendly if you need a dual purpose car. But you won't get the rawness either.
One size fits all tends to be compromised unfortunately
I wish I bought one five years ago.
Maybe a tracked out E46 is the answer, with an MX5 to enjoy on the road - it's never going to feel as special as a Porsche, though.
Edited by mpit on Sunday 8th May 13:02
giles panizzi said:
Cayman R?
My issue with the Cayman R is that it's more than a lot of 981s, but they seem to be very similar performers in terms of lap times. Also, I can't find one for £40k or less.
Is the R significantly better?
Would spending some money on an S not yield similar results for less money?
Edited by mpit on Monday 9th May 15:21
mpit said:
My issue with the Cayman R is that it's more than a lot of 981s, but they seem to be very similar performers in terms of lap times.
Also, I can't find one for £40k or less.
Is the R significantly better?
Would spending some money on an S not yield similar results for less money?
It's a question that can often lead to a heated debate but yes spending money on an S will certainly produce the same results (and possibly more). However you have weigh up what that will do to the future value of the car. It's almost a given that you won't get back the money spent on upgrades and that it will make the car harder to sell on in the future. That won't matter if you're in it for the long term and can write off what you spend. It's for the same reasons that folk are unlikely to modify an R (except for reversible things like brake pads and tyres). And you're right that you're unlikely to find one for near £40K at the moment.Also, I can't find one for £40k or less.
Is the R significantly better?
Would spending some money on an S not yield similar results for less money?
Edited by mpit on Monday 9th May 15:21
mpit said:
My issue with the Cayman R is that it's more than a lot of 981s, but they seem to be very similar performers in terms of lap times.
Also, I can't find one for £40k or less.
Is the R significantly better?
Would spending some money on an S not yield similar results for less money?
I'd save the cash and take the S, the Rs prices seem to be mainly based on rarity and badge. Evora? (Might be a tad soft but lovely daily driver)Also, I can't find one for £40k or less.
Is the R significantly better?
Would spending some money on an S not yield similar results for less money?
Edited by mpit on Monday 9th May 15:21
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