Worth getting a geometry check done?

[Twinfan]

Evening folks!

I've got a year old Cayman GTS that's done around 5k miles. I don't do track days, the car is a weekend fun car and also does the odd UK road trip. The car feels great with no issues to me, but I'm always curious to know if things can be improved

Is it worth getting a geometry check done to ensure everything is as spot on as it can be? Are there any worthwhile tweaks that can be made to a standard car with PASM to make it a little sharper?

Cheers for any advice

[bcr5784]

Given that there are centres which will check the set-up for free and only charge if it's not to spec, getting such a check seems a sensible precaution. Certainly 981 steering feel is sensitive to steering toe in, and handling balance ( and tyre wear) to rear toe in. Others will say you need more negative camber on the front outside spec - but there are tradeoffs between straightline stability and camber, so you need to be sure of what you want.

[finestjammy]

I always get mine checked, and adjusted if required, twice per year just to be sure.

[Koln-RS]

Yes, but it's only as good as the technician and equipment - which needs to be re-calibrated regularly.

Obviously people highly recommend Chris at Centre Gravity, but there must be others around the country. Porsche Centres are good, but only check that it is within the factory tolerances.

[Klippie]

It wouldn't do any harm to have a confidence check done to make sure its all OK, I don't track mine either I only have mine checked when new tyres are fitted.

Keep an eye on the tyre wear its a good indicator if something is running out.

[anonymous-user]

finestjammy said:

I always get mine checked, and adjusted if required, twice per year just to be sure.

Hmmm, another Porsche neglected by a "just don't care" owner. I dare say you're leaving more than three months between oil changes as well, which is a huge mistake. Always seems a shame to me that people fail to look after these cars properly. Just because everything's working fine doesn't mean there's nothing wrong.

[finestjammy]

rockin said:

Hmmm, another Porsche neglected by a "just don't care" owner. I dare say you're leaving more than three months between oil changes as well, which is a huge mistake. Always seems a shame to me that people fail to look after these cars properly. Just because everything's working fine doesn't mean there's nothing wrong.

I detect a hint of sarcasm? It's actually averaged out at 4,000 miles per oil change I just get the geometry checked at the same time I swap the winter to summer, and vice versa, wheels over. I have no idea why anyone wouldn't. Surely there's no harm in that?

[Koln-RS]

What do OPCs charge for a Full Geo Check - I thought it was c.£200+? Big cost twice a year.

[Slippydiff]

Koln-RS said:

What do OPCs charge for a Full Geo Check - I thought it was c.£200+? Big cost twice a year.

Depends on how you value what is often an £800-1000 set of tyres. Dropping the front end down a pothole or clipping a kerb can and will tweak the geo. If that's left unresolved, it can result in uneven and premature wear to the edges of both front tyres or a front and rear tyre, which in turn necessitates their premature renewal of a tyre/s, your £200 check and adjustment then starts to look like a good investment.

But judging by the comments on here previously and the numerous cars I've bought in the past, it's clear that plenty of Porsche owners drive around in poorly aligned cars either because they don't know any better, or they don't care.
A properly aligned Porsche is a wonderful thing to drive, whereas a poorly aligned one, is all too often horrible.

[Slippydiff]

rockin said:

Hmmm, another Porsche neglected by a "just don't care" owner. I dare say you're leaving more than three months between oil changes as well, which is a huge mistake. Always seems a shame to me that people fail to look after these cars properly. Just because everything's working fine doesn't mean there's nothing wrong.

[bcr5784]

Slippydiff said:

Depends on how you value what is often an £800-1000 set of tyres. Dropping the front end down a pothole or clipping a kerb can and will tweak the geo. If that's left unresolved, it can result in uneven and premature wear to the edges of both front tyres or a front and rear tyre, which in turn necessitates their premature renewal of a tyre/s, your £200 check and adjustment then starts to look like a good investment.

But judging by the comments on here previously and the numerous cars I've bought in the past, it's clear that plenty of Porsche owners drive around in poorly aligned cars either because they don't know any better, or they don't care.
A properly aligned Porsche is a wonderful thing to drive, whereas a poorly aligned one, is all too often horrible.

£200 (if that's what the OPC charges) is just a rip-off. A free check with £20 per end adjustment (the charges of the alignment centre my Indy uses) does make a lot of sense.

[Slippydiff]

bcr5784 said:

£200 (if that's what the OPC charges) is just a rip-off. A free check with £20 per end adjustment (the charges of the alignment centre my Indy uses) does make a lot of sense.

Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 3rd July 10:02

[lowndes]

When I picked up a new 991.1 turbo S in 2014 it had 7 miles on the odometer. Having let the suspension settle in over 2.5k miles I took it to CG. Somewhat surprisingly Chris found someone had already “had a go” as evidence by marks to the paint on the front suspension. Geo was all over the place and as this was the first RWS car Chris had had in he needed to conjuror up a special tool to get access to the rear suspension adjusters.

Took about 4 hours to sort. Cost more than 20 quid but you get what you pay for I guess.

[Porsche911R]

A business would be out of business if they did free checks and charged £20

It's a min 2 hour job if you want a geo worth having. I have seen these so called upsell free geo checks the end results are laughable > 1 degree out is within spec.

Some shops are getting a bit expensive, but then the people who go for a geo normally want a proper job and will pay a bit more.

C of G is always fully booked and is £300 min charge, it's getting a bit expensive for a geo check imo but most people now visit to fix issues from other places who DID cut corners and now the cars worse.

I got my OPC to do my last one for £200 on my R and I can tell them what setting I want so not an issues having non oem setting with mine.
They also look after the car and you get a nice coffee and a look around the show room ;-) also helps keep you in that list of people who visit and have work done to get access to GT cars. My name must pop up on OPC lists all the time it can only help having MOT, services, geo done there.

I thought it was good value , what I did pay through the nose for was I asked them to fit my new tyres while the car was on ramps that bill was £127 !!!
must be a record and made my geo look cheap lol

one can easy check a geo with string at home ;-)

Best to find a local motorsport outfit, these will still take 2 hours (cannot see how it can be done quicker) but the rate is normally £65 a hour so £130 for a geo. If any one is paying less it cannot be done without cutting some corners imo.

but really a geo is not hard to do or check, if you are serious and have a geo done right it will have a full set of align marks on the car, so you can take a peak any time to see if it's moved, again any one serious about a geo can tell if the cars out of spec when driving anyway.

This leads me onto 90% people on PCP's and are not serious about driving or geo's any way, it's a PCP hand back = spend as little as possible.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

Given that there are centres which will check the set-up for free and only charge if it's not to spec, getting such a check seems a sensible precaution. Certainly 981 steering feel is sensitive to steering toe in, and handling balance ( and tyre wear) to rear toe in. Others will say you need more negative camber on the front outside spec - but there are tradeoffs between straightline stability and camber, so you need to be sure of what you want.

how will straight line stability be effected by adding 0.5 degree of front neg camber ? to quote this "there are tradeoffs between straightline stability and camber" needs some form of explaining.

It really has nothing to do with straight line stability in the over all setup esp adding what can only be 0.5 degree on most oem cars due to fixed LCA's.

[finestjammy]

Porsche911R said:

Best to find a local motorsport outfit, these will still take 2 hours (cannot see how it can be done quicker) but the rate is normally £65 a hour so £130 for a geo. If any one is paying less it cannot be done without cutting some corners imo.

This is what I do. I get the wheels swapped over twice a year and at the same time the geo is checked. They put it on the Hunter whilst I wait so I can see if anything is out of spec. If it is they just charge for time rather than per adjustment.

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

It's a min 2 hour job if you want a geo worth having. I have seen these so called upsell free geo checks the end results are laughable > 1 degree out is within spec.

We are talking about different things. We are not talking about a bespoke set-up - the original post was about doing a twice yearly CHECK of geo - not getting it set up in the first place. Yes it may cost more than £20 to sort out the setting that the factory put on - cost me £50 to get to spec - but subsequently it shouldn't cost £200 a pop.

I'm not sure where you get your 1 degree from - there are no settings on my car where you are allowed to be more than 1 degree from nominal - most a small fraction of that. None of mine are more than a tenth of a degree or so from nominal, most a lot less.

[AW10]

I recently bought a 7K mile BGTS from an OPC. After a week or so I noticed the steering wheel wasn't quite straight and having experienced a major tyre shredding balls-up on the alignment done on my M5 by a BMW main dealer I wondered "what else isn't quite right" and elected to take the car to CG. Sure enough the wheel wasn't straight but the toe was within spec so the OPC had left it all alone. Rear toe was within spec but at one extreme on the left and at the other extreme on the right. So clearly "good enough" for the OPC but all rather disappointing for the type of car and not conducive to even tyre wear.

So the short answer is yes, get it done. Doesn't have to be by the likes of CG but probably not by your average tyre fitting garage either. Ask on the PH subforum for your area for recommendations.

[Twinfan]

Thanks everyone. I'm booked in at Ninemeister next month for a day when I'm off work

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

how will straight line stability be effected by adding 0.5 degree of front neg camber ? to quote this "there are tradeoffs between straightline stability and camber" needs some form of explaining.

It really has nothing to do with straight line stability in the over all setup esp adding what can only be 0.5 degree on most oem cars due to fixed LCA's.

I'm referring to getting more camber by elongating the strut mounting holes as advocated by some.