How does a 986 Boxster drive?
Discussion
Hi all,
Firstly, apologies if this has been covered many times before. Most of the advice I've seen focuses on the fact the Boxster drives really well - without explaining how that actually feels.
A little background - I like RWD cars, have owned 12-13 or so front engined RWD over the years (compared with 2 FWD cars and 1 4wd). I like the way the rear can move around under you - it may not always be fast, but it is fun. I'm not talking about tyre smoking big drifts - just the way they communicate with you by moving around as you enjoy a good stretch of road. Specifically I like the way they communicate grip levels well, and rarely leave you surprised by the amount of grip you have.
Whilst I've never owned a mid-engined car, I have had use of a couple (an ex-girlfriend had both a Mk1 MR2 and a Mk2 MR2 in the time we were together). I enjoyed these, but found they were a little more 'all or nothing' until you REALLY got to know them ... Grip-grip-grip-grip-oh s**t.
I appreciate that I'm generalising, and not all front engine RWD cars communicate brilliantly, and not all mid-engined cars are precision scalpels that corner effortlessly right up until they try and kill you! So my question is ... where on that scale does the Boxster sit? Can you enjoy playing with grip on offer in confidence as it communicates so well? Or is it more snappy, and there's a very limited window to play in?
If it helps, I'm looking for a second car to replace my RX-8 (which is great, but under 20MPG and multiple engine rebuilds - fortunately the second was done under warranty from the first - are starting to wear on me). I'd sell the RX-8, continue to commute in my old shed of a diesel Mondeo, and have either a Boxster or an NC MX-5 as a 'fun' car (occasional fair weather commute, weekend runs and the very occasional track day). The MX-5 would be the 'safe' choice ... reliable, sensible, cheaper to run, handling likely to be quite familiar ... but there's something about the Boxster that keeps pulling me back. So before I go and waste seller's time by taking out cars I may not get on with, it'd be great to hear some descriptions from owners of the handling.
I appreciate that handling feel is a very subjective thing, and one man's 'snappy deathtrap' is another's 'exquisitely balanced' ... but grateful for any guidance people can give.
Thanks.
Firstly, apologies if this has been covered many times before. Most of the advice I've seen focuses on the fact the Boxster drives really well - without explaining how that actually feels.
A little background - I like RWD cars, have owned 12-13 or so front engined RWD over the years (compared with 2 FWD cars and 1 4wd). I like the way the rear can move around under you - it may not always be fast, but it is fun. I'm not talking about tyre smoking big drifts - just the way they communicate with you by moving around as you enjoy a good stretch of road. Specifically I like the way they communicate grip levels well, and rarely leave you surprised by the amount of grip you have.
Whilst I've never owned a mid-engined car, I have had use of a couple (an ex-girlfriend had both a Mk1 MR2 and a Mk2 MR2 in the time we were together). I enjoyed these, but found they were a little more 'all or nothing' until you REALLY got to know them ... Grip-grip-grip-grip-oh s**t.
I appreciate that I'm generalising, and not all front engine RWD cars communicate brilliantly, and not all mid-engined cars are precision scalpels that corner effortlessly right up until they try and kill you! So my question is ... where on that scale does the Boxster sit? Can you enjoy playing with grip on offer in confidence as it communicates so well? Or is it more snappy, and there's a very limited window to play in?
If it helps, I'm looking for a second car to replace my RX-8 (which is great, but under 20MPG and multiple engine rebuilds - fortunately the second was done under warranty from the first - are starting to wear on me). I'd sell the RX-8, continue to commute in my old shed of a diesel Mondeo, and have either a Boxster or an NC MX-5 as a 'fun' car (occasional fair weather commute, weekend runs and the very occasional track day). The MX-5 would be the 'safe' choice ... reliable, sensible, cheaper to run, handling likely to be quite familiar ... but there's something about the Boxster that keeps pulling me back. So before I go and waste seller's time by taking out cars I may not get on with, it'd be great to hear some descriptions from owners of the handling.
I appreciate that handling feel is a very subjective thing, and one man's 'snappy deathtrap' is another's 'exquisitely balanced' ... but grateful for any guidance people can give.
Thanks.
Thank you both for your thoughts.
cmoose - very comprehensive reply there, really appreciate it. A quick follow up question about being over-tyred at the back. Can it be mitigated by going for an S over a regular Boxster (more power = rear tyres not feeling too much)? Or would swapping to a slightly narrower tyre help, or just create problems in other ways?
It sounds to me like they are a type of fun, but the only way to find out if they are my type of fun is to give one a go and see how I get on.
cmoose - very comprehensive reply there, really appreciate it. A quick follow up question about being over-tyred at the back. Can it be mitigated by going for an S over a regular Boxster (more power = rear tyres not feeling too much)? Or would swapping to a slightly narrower tyre help, or just create problems in other ways?
It sounds to me like they are a type of fun, but the only way to find out if they are my type of fun is to give one a go and see how I get on.
I had an early Boxster S. Lovely car (only sold due to needing a family estate). Cost a fortune in maintenance (although more careful buying and better luck might have helped). Handling was good. To be honest I did not find it very playful: far too much grip due to monster tyres to really get any slide or even close to it at any reasonable road speed. Surprisingly practical (2 boots). Quick, although the gearing is probably too long (hit 75mph on the speedo in 2nd). Did not feel special to sit in like an Elise but much more comfortable.
Rotary Potato said:
Thanks for the follow up cmoose.
Some decent food for thought there.
Time to get the RX-8 sold, and go about trying a few replacement options and see what feels the most fun at sane road speeds.
Cmoose's initial response is absolutely bang-on. I would reiterate the other points he made about control weights, powertrain etc. It is the combination of these things that make the 986 special, rather than just the playfulness (or lack of) at the rear.Some decent food for thought there.
Time to get the RX-8 sold, and go about trying a few replacement options and see what feels the most fun at sane road speeds.
They are brim full of feel and character, but those aspects are hard to convey in words - you'll have to try one to see what people rave about and whether they're for you. They are extremely 'mechanical' and a world away from a lot of more modern stuff.
Good luck with your search.
Rotary Potato said:
Thanks for the follow up cmoose.
Some decent food for thought there.
Time to get the RX-8 sold, and go about trying a few replacement options and see what feels the most fun at sane road speeds.
I had an RX8 R3 (on an 09 plate) which I traded in about 4 years ago. Loved it. Loved driving it. Hated carrying oil in the boot to top up all the time. Hated the MPG. Some decent food for thought there.
Time to get the RX-8 sold, and go about trying a few replacement options and see what feels the most fun at sane road speeds.
But to your point, I have also driven a 986 and whilst the power delivery is (obviously) a little different it's not too dissimilar. Not less fun though!
Thank you to those of you contributing thoughtful answers and observations.
A few back of my own ...
- the RX-8 will hit 69-70mph in 2nd gear (admittedly it's doing north of 9000rpm at this point ...), so the gearing doesn't sound a million miles away, even if it is more towards the GT end of the scale than the frenetic end.
- there definitely seems to be a trend for it being 'fun', but not necessarily playful.
- communication and balance keep coming up. These are both a major positive for me, as being told by the car when you're getting close to limits keeps unwanted surprises to a minimum & an inherently balanced chassis stops things being overly snappy.
- it seems there's no substitute for getting behind the wheel and giving it a go for myself, but thanks again to everyone for their views.
- Crispystork, I think you might be missing the point here. You appear to have done the equivalent of when someone says they want to kiss a girl, you directed them to their own sister! It might fulfil the letter of the ask, but not really the spirit of it!
A few back of my own ...
- the RX-8 will hit 69-70mph in 2nd gear (admittedly it's doing north of 9000rpm at this point ...), so the gearing doesn't sound a million miles away, even if it is more towards the GT end of the scale than the frenetic end.
- there definitely seems to be a trend for it being 'fun', but not necessarily playful.
- communication and balance keep coming up. These are both a major positive for me, as being told by the car when you're getting close to limits keeps unwanted surprises to a minimum & an inherently balanced chassis stops things being overly snappy.
- it seems there's no substitute for getting behind the wheel and giving it a go for myself, but thanks again to everyone for their views.
- Crispystork, I think you might be missing the point here. You appear to have done the equivalent of when someone says they want to kiss a girl, you directed them to their own sister! It might fulfil the letter of the ask, but not really the spirit of it!
I've had a Mk1 MR2, and I agree with your grip-grip-grip-aaarrrgghhh assessment.
I've also had a Mk1 MX-5, which really was playful, very easy to have a real laugh with on a suitable roundabout etc, but obviously underpowered. It was also a very raw, draughty, basic experience.
The 986 is much more civilised, it's comfy, and with the windows up and the rear screen in, very draught free. A good heater makes winter top down driving perfectly reasonable. From a handling perspective, I find it very sharp and very communicative...much more progressive on the limit than the MR2 but you'll be going waaaaaay faster than the MX5 before the car starts moving around. Bear in mind it's not actually that quick compared to even a higher end modern diesel saloon, however where for me the only real appeal of the MX5 was a sunny day or sideways, the 986 is a much more complete experience. The engine, especially with a decent sports exhaust on, sounds fantastic, and it's to me it's much more about the whole balance/flow/smoothness/braking/turn in/nail the downchange/exhaust howl thing than going round corners with the wheels pointing the wrong way. I've never really experienced the "understeer" mentioned earlier ever to be honest, it just feels planted and neutral, with the back end giving a pleasing squirm if you boot it out of a corner with more throttle than you know is sensible.
I've also had a Mk1 MX-5, which really was playful, very easy to have a real laugh with on a suitable roundabout etc, but obviously underpowered. It was also a very raw, draughty, basic experience.
The 986 is much more civilised, it's comfy, and with the windows up and the rear screen in, very draught free. A good heater makes winter top down driving perfectly reasonable. From a handling perspective, I find it very sharp and very communicative...much more progressive on the limit than the MR2 but you'll be going waaaaaay faster than the MX5 before the car starts moving around. Bear in mind it's not actually that quick compared to even a higher end modern diesel saloon, however where for me the only real appeal of the MX5 was a sunny day or sideways, the 986 is a much more complete experience. The engine, especially with a decent sports exhaust on, sounds fantastic, and it's to me it's much more about the whole balance/flow/smoothness/braking/turn in/nail the downchange/exhaust howl thing than going round corners with the wheels pointing the wrong way. I've never really experienced the "understeer" mentioned earlier ever to be honest, it just feels planted and neutral, with the back end giving a pleasing squirm if you boot it out of a corner with more throttle than you know is sensible.
unless you doing something too adventurous (or stupid), I think they are quite civilized and comfy. If you go to boxa.net, there are a few owners shared their accident experiences with pictures, but you would see that mostly they are extreme situations related to tires, weather, roads and etc..
If you can test-drive a quite clean one, you would fall in love with boxster 986. Clean engine sound in the back, mid-engine layout, and super-minimal interior, finally if its manual, properly raw car. Due to the engine position and its size, the bad ones would give you immediate signs such as dodgy engine sound, exhaust rattle or suspension noises.. Very easy to spot a bad one, imho. Good luck!
Mini hint: If you test drive one, just wait until the engine reachs the optimum temperate. See how the cooling sytem behaving? If there is any leak or anything unusual, stay away quite -common- weak point that might bring extra bills!
If you can test-drive a quite clean one, you would fall in love with boxster 986. Clean engine sound in the back, mid-engine layout, and super-minimal interior, finally if its manual, properly raw car. Due to the engine position and its size, the bad ones would give you immediate signs such as dodgy engine sound, exhaust rattle or suspension noises.. Very easy to spot a bad one, imho. Good luck!
Mini hint: If you test drive one, just wait until the engine reachs the optimum temperate. See how the cooling sytem behaving? If there is any leak or anything unusual, stay away quite -common- weak point that might bring extra bills!
Echo most of the other comments.
I've had a handful of MX-5s, also an MR2 and now a Boxster, driven plenty of other stuff.
I loved driving my MX-5s, the turbocharged on particularly you could smoke out of every t junction with a quarter turn of opposite lock, great fun.
The Boxster IS different – but its still very good.
There’s a big difference between a healthy one and a baggy one - despite being ‘fine’ on paper mine needed a full suspension refresh, dampers etc to get it back to how Porsche intended.
Suspension Geometry needs to be set properly and they don’t like being lowered too much – it is Macpherson struts all round remember, not double wishbone.
There is too much F-R stagger as standard. I have gone up in width on the front (225F, 255R) so it is much more balanced and no understeer on track, but did numb the steering a touch. However I should have gone down on the rear instead – the next set will be 205F, 235R, lowering the overall grip level and improving the steering feel a bit – that is what I would recommend for a 986, on 17” rims.
Once ‘right’ though, its great. Beautifully balance, easy to drive quickly, very ‘flowing’, you can feel the weight of the Engine behind you.
Steering and Pedals feel great, perfectly positioned. E-gas throttle not quite as good as the older cable throttled 2.5 (but I don’t find it in any way distracting, CMOOSE is not a fan I know).
Brakes themselves are excellent, one of the most obvious places that money is spent – all models come with nice light 4 pot alloy Brembos all round, bigger on the S.
Gearshift is the worst bit, lots of plastic linkages, tend to be a bit floppy, but can be fixed and made pretty good, will never be ‘excellent’, anyone who says it is hasn’t driven an MX-5 or S2000.
Clutch on lots of cars will feel very heavy – they go very heavy a long time before they start slipping. A fresh clutch is a revelation.
I’ve not done it, but I am convinced that some better/lower seats would make a big difference to the feel and connection with the car too.
I've had a handful of MX-5s, also an MR2 and now a Boxster, driven plenty of other stuff.
I loved driving my MX-5s, the turbocharged on particularly you could smoke out of every t junction with a quarter turn of opposite lock, great fun.
The Boxster IS different – but its still very good.
There’s a big difference between a healthy one and a baggy one - despite being ‘fine’ on paper mine needed a full suspension refresh, dampers etc to get it back to how Porsche intended.
Suspension Geometry needs to be set properly and they don’t like being lowered too much – it is Macpherson struts all round remember, not double wishbone.
There is too much F-R stagger as standard. I have gone up in width on the front (225F, 255R) so it is much more balanced and no understeer on track, but did numb the steering a touch. However I should have gone down on the rear instead – the next set will be 205F, 235R, lowering the overall grip level and improving the steering feel a bit – that is what I would recommend for a 986, on 17” rims.
Once ‘right’ though, its great. Beautifully balance, easy to drive quickly, very ‘flowing’, you can feel the weight of the Engine behind you.
Steering and Pedals feel great, perfectly positioned. E-gas throttle not quite as good as the older cable throttled 2.5 (but I don’t find it in any way distracting, CMOOSE is not a fan I know).
Brakes themselves are excellent, one of the most obvious places that money is spent – all models come with nice light 4 pot alloy Brembos all round, bigger on the S.
Gearshift is the worst bit, lots of plastic linkages, tend to be a bit floppy, but can be fixed and made pretty good, will never be ‘excellent’, anyone who says it is hasn’t driven an MX-5 or S2000.
Clutch on lots of cars will feel very heavy – they go very heavy a long time before they start slipping. A fresh clutch is a revelation.
I’ve not done it, but I am convinced that some better/lower seats would make a big difference to the feel and connection with the car too.
I certainly concur with the views above. Perhaps you should also look at a GT86 if you haven't driven one of those.
The sports exhaust and short shifter options really do add some extra character and interaction, especially with the smallest wheel / tyre combination you can fit. There is a surplus of grip and ability over power, not helped by the long gearing, however the precision and capabilities are hard to ignore. The soundtrack with that exhaust is lovely too.
I would also add that you should try a 996, if you haven't already. The rear weight bias requires a completely different driving technique, which is really rewarding to refine. I've never tired of it. The way you have to use weight transfer to get the front end to bite, then keep the back slightly mobile before using the traction to exit the corner. It's just fantastic and quite unique in today's world. You still get the front end bobbing around and that nimble feeling, unlike the 991 and later.
An early 996C2 with the cable throttle is also such a pleasure to heel and toe and now feels a lot closer to it's older siblings like the 993, than it did when it was launched. Well worth seeking out!
The sports exhaust and short shifter options really do add some extra character and interaction, especially with the smallest wheel / tyre combination you can fit. There is a surplus of grip and ability over power, not helped by the long gearing, however the precision and capabilities are hard to ignore. The soundtrack with that exhaust is lovely too.
I would also add that you should try a 996, if you haven't already. The rear weight bias requires a completely different driving technique, which is really rewarding to refine. I've never tired of it. The way you have to use weight transfer to get the front end to bite, then keep the back slightly mobile before using the traction to exit the corner. It's just fantastic and quite unique in today's world. You still get the front end bobbing around and that nimble feeling, unlike the 991 and later.
An early 996C2 with the cable throttle is also such a pleasure to heel and toe and now feels a lot closer to it's older siblings like the 993, than it did when it was launched. Well worth seeking out!
Thanks all for the continuing relevent & insightful feedback. It seems there is definitely scope for moulding a car to your preferred driving style with a few well chosen mods.
CousinDupree - I see a lot of budget creep in your post! While I could probably just about stretch to a 996 or GT86, a combination of house and family means I'd be feeling a lot more comfortable at somewhere in the £4k-£6k (ish ...) sort of ballpark. Your encouragement to unlock a little more of the savings is commendable, but probably not right for me right now. 
I used to run an e39 M5 as a single car (bought for £6400, run from 120k miles to 160k miles, averaged 22mpg) and since then been moving away from a single "do everything" car and towards a 2 car solution. Currently have a £395 mk3 Mondeo diesel as a commuting car & family shed (50+MPG, refuses to fail an MOT despite being completely neglected) and the RX-8 PZ (rebuilt engine, full bridgeport, decat) for my own fun. I like the way this 2 car setup works, but reliability worries (both VERY real and percieved) just suck a large amount of the fun out of the RX-8 ... hence the itch to change.
CousinDupree - I see a lot of budget creep in your post!
While I could probably just about stretch to a 996 or GT86, a combination of house and family means I'd be feeling a lot more comfortable at somewhere in the £4k-£6k (ish ...) sort of ballpark. Your encouragement to unlock a little more of the savings is commendable, but probably not right for me right now. I used to run an e39 M5 as a single car (bought for £6400, run from 120k miles to 160k miles, averaged 22mpg) and since then been moving away from a single "do everything" car and towards a 2 car solution. Currently have a £395 mk3 Mondeo diesel as a commuting car & family shed (50+MPG, refuses to fail an MOT despite being completely neglected) and the RX-8 PZ (rebuilt engine, full bridgeport, decat) for my own fun. I like the way this 2 car setup works, but reliability worries (both VERY real and percieved) just suck a large amount of the fun out of the RX-8 ... hence the itch to change.
I had a leggy S which was comfy and civilised, but not very nice dynamically at all. I think the shocks were well past their best and turn in was not that enjoyable an experience. I should have attended to it, but it didn't make economic sense to me at the time, so I sold it after a happyish commuting year round the M25!
Bert
Bert
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes, I know. We've missed the boat when it comes to good cheap early 996s. I also like 3.6 911s, or the later 3.4s. All great cars and almost incomparable to their modern brethren, driven back to back. Whether a Boxster is a good alternative really depends on your expectations. Unfortunately I've always admired, rather than wanted to own a 3.2 or 3.4 Boxster. I guess like the OP, I do want something that is more adjustable at sane road speeds with the grip / power available, or an interesting handling trait and and a lot more torque to exploit, like a 911. .
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Absolutely, great value, if, and it's a big if, you can find that almost mythical near twenty year old Boxster for buttons, that doesn't need a whole heap of work, or upcoming maintenance. In many cases, a ten year later car can be most cost effective, possible major issues aside.Whether you view it as 2/3rds this, or branded that, as said, it's not important to me. I've owned and enjoyed cars from MX5s to 993s and place the handling balance that I enjoy (absolutely subjective), above all else. After all these years, I still can't get enough of that 911 balance and driving technique. I actually enjoyed driving a base manual 718 on track more than any previous boxster including a fully loaded 718S, due to the lovely front end and finally some torque to load the chassis. The EPAS and sound much less so though.
I was very close to buying a 997.2 GT3, however equally my next car will more than likely be a GT86 or Caterham. I found the 2ltr ND MX5 a little bland, but really enjoyed the 1.5. You can really feel the lighter nose and beautifully responsive engine. Still no GT86 for me though.
Lots of great options out there and it's great to share each other's preferences. Have fun.
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