987.1 engine rebuild - 3.7 or not?

[zxc23]

Hi,

I potentially need a rebuild on my Cayman S 3.4 Gen 1 due to the dreaded bore score. I'm Just weighing up the options I have with the view of any resale value. Would the extra cost involved in a 3.7 conversion (pistons & remap) be worth it come selling time, or will it put people off?

Option 1
Standard 3.4 rebuild using replacement 6 x steel liners and keeping the existing pistons, total cost ~£4k. I thinking this may only add £1-2k
to the resale at max

Option 2
3.7 rebuild using new steel liners and new pistons, total cost ~£5.5k. Could this add £3-4k com resale time, or even more?

Prices are based on a few phone calls to independent specialists.

Any advice appreciated

[edc]

I think it's wishful thinking to believe that an engine rebuild it capacity increase alone is going to add any significant premium to a sale price. If the car had a package of other upgrades then it night make some difference albeit to a much smaller market. Nobody pays a real premium for refreshed suspension or uprated aftermarket on an otherwise standard car.

[mr pg]

Those costs seem very cheap for such an extensive rebuild. Who would be doing it?

[TommyRS_]

I agree, those cost do sound very low compared to what I've previously heard/read. I was under the impression it's more £10K

[rdjohn]

I would be inclined to have a standard rebuild.

Have you tried Hartech https://www.hartech.org/rebuild-prices

They could make the engine more durable which might be a good idea if you end up keeping it.

I believe that a Hartech rebuild may add a little extra value to the car, assuming everything else is in good order.

[edc]

I think it's easy for a Porsche nerd to add some subjective value to a Hartech or even any other rebuild. To the average person buying they have no real clue who Hartech is. They read an advert and it looks like it had an engine problem they then look at the price which is more than another equivalent model and they move that car off or to the bottom of their shortlist.

I'm a veritable expert now being on my second Boxster since 2012 but I bought not having read about IMS and not really caring that much. Similarly, I'm in the market for a Merc. Saw a reasonable prices one with a gearbox rebuild touting it as a good thing. Read the advert and forgot about it. The reality is this is how most of the market looks at cars.

[richthebike]

To answer the question specifically... no, I dont believe a 3.7 is worth more than a 3.4. If anything, possibly less.

Theres a Hartech C4 3.7 996 on ebay that's been for sale all summer. It's on for 5k more than the receipts for the rebuild that was done this year. Hasn't shifted.

Going 3.7 probably narrows the buyer pool in my view. Rebuilt 3.4 is probably the better bet if you're concerned about resale.

If you're keeping for a while then go for the re engineering option ie 10k plus at Hartech. If you just want out then sink the cheapest local option.

[MB140]

That seems very cheap for a rebuild. I was quoted around £9-10k when mine had bore scoring.

I don’t believe the 3.7 would add any value.

[frozen-in-wiltshire]

MB140 said:

That seems very cheap for a rebuild. I was quoted around £9-10k when mine had bore scoring.

I don’t believe the 3.7 would add any value.

Agree that's odd. not sure steel liners in these engines is a great idea - from factory they are alusil and hartech and gt cars are nikasil liners. the reason they are there is differential heat expansion and the problems that causes to head and engine integrity. Older engines had steel liners - but not the new ones. Hartech do a good job as others have said and would use nikasil ( I understand ). So I would think very carefully before putting steel liners in your car - unless someone on here knows better. Also agree with most of the other comments - people see an engine rebuild and most of them walk away - don't expect a premium come sale time for it.

[edc]

I've been quoted, not Hartech, £7.5k + VAT for a full rebuild Inc liners and forged pistons for a 3.2 to 3.6/3.7.

[ransom81]

I'd like to know where a rebuild can be had for £4k too

[zxc23]

Thanks for the feed back

Looking a bit closer I may have been a tad optimistic on the price, plenty of places advertise a basic rebuild from £3k, but that doesn’t include liners. With liners it’s looking more like £5-7k min.

Interesting that the consensus is that a 3.7 build won’t add to the resale, possibly putting people off. Not what I hoped, but good to know.

I’m sure Hartech are very good, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there that can do a decent job.

Westwood engineering do 3.7 liners and pistons for £2400 or just 3.4 liners for £990. I know there is a fair bit of machining to fit them, but for an extra £1400 plus a few hundred for a map I think the 3.7 looks tempting. IMO that is a cheap power upgrade.

Has anyone out there had replacement liners fitted and covered decent mileage since? Interested to prove/disprove the theory of the heat transfer causing other engine issues.

[edc]

Westwood supply a lot of companies out there. October 2103 issue of 911 and Porsche World has a blue 3.7 Cayman with liners from Westwood, made by the now defunct SVP.

[jakesmith]

Engine rebuild does not add value IMO, likely just puts people off as a problem car
Maybe the full works for Hartech for £12k would let you sell it for £2k above market if you held out for the right buyer

[anonymous-user]

zxc23 said:

I potentially need a rebuild on my Cayman S 3.4 Gen 1 due to the dreaded bore score. I'm Just weighing up the options

• What's the car worth as it stands today?
• What's the value of the car afterwards?

Insofar as the name "Hartech" is often mentioned there's a full price list for rebuilds on their website. I imagine "rebuild to sell" might be a somewhat cheaper job than a "rebuild to keep". In very round numbers it looks like £5,000 to £10,000 depending on how far you go.

[Heaveho]

If the car was intended to be a keeper afterwards, then I maybe would consider it, but in terms of what I'd hope to recoup come sale time, it would be a no for me. Very much limiting the market come resale time, in my opinion.

[ooid]

Heaveho said:

If the car was intended to be a keeper afterwards, then I maybe would consider it, but in terms of what I'd hope to recoup come sale time, it would be a no for me.

I agree, quite pointless. What is it now gen1 cayman S, around 11-12k I guess? so if I was in the market, rather than spending more on a 3.7 engine, would get a gen2. Early 2009 gen2 caymans are around 17-18k I think nowadays.

[FTW]

I have driven a 3.9l Cayman albeit a racing car. It had 400+bhp and loads of torque. It totally transformed the car and made it a great package. I imagine in a road car it would be tremendous, but like any modified car it narrows your resale market.

Only worth it if you’re going to keep it and build something special.

[hartech]

It must be really difficult for owners of this engine range (996/997/Cayman S M96/7 and 9a1 Gen 2) to know what advice to believe and from whom (especially new owners just starting to investigate causes) and as a result the same old questions keep re-emerging and the same old (often misleading) answers.

Some contributors provide good honest advice, some purposely mislead (for what they perceive as beneficial to their turnover), some promote what they know are inferior products (claiming zero failures when we had seen plenty to contradict that) and some just have not researched things well enough or from a professional enough background and with too small a sample to base judgements on to draw reliable conclusions.

It is a minefield and to try and help we have put together a report on the 4 main problems afflicting these engines that should clear up differences about what are the root causes and assist anyone thinking of enlarging their engine.



TECHNOPHOBE WARNING.


Although we have provided a short version at the start - if you really want to get to the bottom of things - we cannot explain away all the causes and influences in a few words and think it best to use the report medium that allows you to easily cross reference topics, refer back and forth easily and provides revelations that we think are still better managed in the longer version and as a written report rather than on video.

Although some problems were easily identified, resolved and proven, others took a long time to understand and will take a lot of time and patience to read about and absorb and preferably with some background of engineering, science or familiarity with engines.

I suggest you don’t even consider requesting a copy unless you are sufficiently interested to wade through the 184 pages, 40,000 words and 88 illustrations.

It covers IMS bearing failure, cylinder cracking, “D” chunking, Cylinder scoring and Gen 2 cylinder seizing (with a few other small additions for good measure).

To obtain copy you need to contact Sharon at [e-mail] and agree to a confidentiality clause. Please identify your Country of origin (as we have different versions for UK and International consumption).

We are not yet sure if this is going to prove a good way to try and communicate and so will be grateful for constructive feedback via direct E-mail to Sharon.

Having spent hours writing it I will not be personally responding to questions or arguments about it on this forum.

Baz

[Heaveho]

Dunno whether I'm particularly unusual, but haven't heard a thing about Gen 2 cylinder seizing on any engine variant, are they all potentially affected?