981 GT4 (Carrera S) Engine
Discussion
Am I right in thinking that the engine in the GT4 is a reliable lump?
I know many GT4's haven't done many miles but whats the general reliability index looking like...at 385hp the engine doesn't seem to be particularly taxed hauling the relative light weight Cayman shell around.
I narrowly missed getting a drive in the GT4 Belfast OPC had in before it (quickly) sold. I'll get a go in one soon enough. We have an excellent Porsche indie here in NI and with cars coming off warranty surely others must be getting out of the OPC servicing thing.
Apart from the up front cost and inevitable higher servicing and consumable costs (tyres, etc) what is the rub running a 10k mile GT4 compared to a 50k+ mile Cayman S. I'm aware of the frontal clearance issues too but I live in the county and not many high rise car parks or speed humps here...it would annoy me eventually though.
I know the GT4 wouldn't be my forever car but have a window in my life now to actually run a car like this for a few years. Being a solely manual driver the sales 'stock' is actually stacked in my favour for once too
I know many GT4's haven't done many miles but whats the general reliability index looking like...at 385hp the engine doesn't seem to be particularly taxed hauling the relative light weight Cayman shell around.
I narrowly missed getting a drive in the GT4 Belfast OPC had in before it (quickly) sold. I'll get a go in one soon enough. We have an excellent Porsche indie here in NI and with cars coming off warranty surely others must be getting out of the OPC servicing thing.
Apart from the up front cost and inevitable higher servicing and consumable costs (tyres, etc) what is the rub running a 10k mile GT4 compared to a 50k+ mile Cayman S. I'm aware of the frontal clearance issues too but I live in the county and not many high rise car parks or speed humps here...it would annoy me eventually though.
I know the GT4 wouldn't be my forever car but have a window in my life now to actually run a car like this for a few years. Being a solely manual driver the sales 'stock' is actually stacked in my favour for once too
Hi, didn't realise you were in Ireland.
I used to think it was a bit of a disadvantage being in NI in terms of buying cars but the OPC Belfast certainly sell things like GT models cheaper than rest of the UK - hence why I didn't get to have a go in the GT4 they sold before Xmas. It had sold the day I contacted them.
I used to think it was a bit of a disadvantage being in NI in terms of buying cars but the OPC Belfast certainly sell things like GT models cheaper than rest of the UK - hence why I didn't get to have a go in the GT4 they sold before Xmas. It had sold the day I contacted them.
Not sure it would work expensive to run if you only keep it 2 years. If it's just been serviced you wouldn't need another during your 2 years, and if the tyres are in good shape (or possibly new anyway) your're going to have to push it hard to get through them in 8k miles. Highest cost could well be your insurance.
they do 12 mpg driven fast and only about 17 to 20 driven normal
car tax was > £500
cars are also dropping now, so depreciation is also there which were not in the 1st 4 years of the car.
they also take 5 miles to warm up so short trips again kill fuel, after my v8 M3 it's was the worst car I have owned for mpg !
I do 12k so ended up not using it for a daily :-(
that's the killer for a daily I found PETROL !!!
car tax was > £500
cars are also dropping now, so depreciation is also there which were not in the 1st 4 years of the car.
they also take 5 miles to warm up so short trips again kill fuel, after my v8 M3 it's was the worst car I have owned for mpg !
I do 12k so ended up not using it for a daily :-(
that's the killer for a daily I found PETROL !!!
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 4th February 08:47
mr pg said:
Not sure it would work expensive to run if you only keep it 2 years. If it's just been serviced you wouldn't need another during your 2 years, and if the tyres are in good shape (or possibly new anyway) your're going to have to push it hard to get through them in 8k miles. Highest cost could well be your insurance.
I'm going to check insurance when back from holidays.My current Cayman S is only £280 so I'm not in a high risk location/age group. Anymore than double that and I'd be worried.
Porsche911R said:
they do 12 mpg driven fast and only about 17 to 20 driven normal
car tax was > £500
cars are also dropping now, so depreciation is also there which were not in the 1st 4 years of the car.
they also take 5 miles to warm up so short trips again kill fuel, after my v8 M3 it's was the worst car I have owned for mpg !
I do 12k so ended up not using it for a daily :-(
that's the killer for a daily I found PETROL !!!
Yes...the mpg chestnut.car tax was > £500
cars are also dropping now, so depreciation is also there which were not in the 1st 4 years of the car.
they also take 5 miles to warm up so short trips again kill fuel, after my v8 M3 it's was the worst car I have owned for mpg !
I do 12k so ended up not using it for a daily :-(
that's the killer for a daily I found PETROL !!!
I'd raised that a few times as couldn't understand why a lightly modded (?) Carrera S engines chew's the juice...do 911 Carrera S do the same - surely not?
It will only get long runs at weekend or for PCGB or other Irish rally runs. I'll admit it'll be a poser car at least 80% of the time (at least I'm honest) but I do have a few really good runs near me (and some further away too).
My current Cayman S is £555 tax and I'd probably SORN car for 3 months to soften that I can still do a monthly run 'up the hills' unnoticed to keep the fluids working...it's Ireland!!
If your insurance is only £280 on a CS you be surprised that a Gt4 is not that expensive to insure, remember be realistic about the mileage you do ie people always tend to say they do 10k a year when they only do 3k.
As for fuel consumption I never found it to be too bad ie I have had 4 new Porsches 986s, 987.1cs , 987.2 spyder and a 981 gt4 and they have all achieved about 25mpg average during my ownership, although I never used for short trips and on a run the 987spyder might have achieved about 33mpg the gt4 was about 30mpg.
Servicing is also not going to cost much more than your CS it's basically oil and filter change on modern cars but brakes and tyres will cost you more.
Reliability is not an issue the engine has been around for over 10years now without any scare stories!
So just get one bought and enjoy
As for fuel consumption I never found it to be too bad ie I have had 4 new Porsches 986s, 987.1cs , 987.2 spyder and a 981 gt4 and they have all achieved about 25mpg average during my ownership, although I never used for short trips and on a run the 987spyder might have achieved about 33mpg the gt4 was about 30mpg.
Servicing is also not going to cost much more than your CS it's basically oil and filter change on modern cars but brakes and tyres will cost you more.
Reliability is not an issue the engine has been around for over 10years now without any scare stories!
So just get one bought and enjoy
That's more encouraging.
I've been trying to think of the next step on from a Cayman S. Like most, I've looked at 911 options and always come back to the fact the Cayman suites me better. It's not a daily car
I view the GT4 as essentially a Cayman with a 911 engine (and some other nice bits) so could be the perfect next step. It's not hard core GT car and I don't need that in my life anyway.
I was impressed by the 718 GT4 I saw briefly at Belfast OPC being prepared for customer. Looked smaller in the flesh than I'd imagined. If the 981 is similar then a good start.
Anyway, I'm actively tracking a few used cars now and no rush as there's plenty about ....will get a drive in one asap and should be able to make my own mind up. Always appreciate real world user feedback though. No chat about the perfect spec...I like silver and black interior on these and NOT black rims 😆
I've been trying to think of the next step on from a Cayman S. Like most, I've looked at 911 options and always come back to the fact the Cayman suites me better. It's not a daily car
I view the GT4 as essentially a Cayman with a 911 engine (and some other nice bits) so could be the perfect next step. It's not hard core GT car and I don't need that in my life anyway.
I was impressed by the 718 GT4 I saw briefly at Belfast OPC being prepared for customer. Looked smaller in the flesh than I'd imagined. If the 981 is similar then a good start.
Anyway, I'm actively tracking a few used cars now and no rush as there's plenty about ....will get a drive in one asap and should be able to make my own mind up. Always appreciate real world user feedback though. No chat about the perfect spec...I like silver and black interior on these and NOT black rims 😆
GT4P said:
If your insurance is only £280 on a CS you be surprised that a Gt4 is not that expensive to insure, remember be realistic about the mileage you do ie people always tend to say they do 10k a year when they only do 3k.
As for fuel consumption I never found it to be too bad ie I have had 4 new Porsches 986s, 987.1cs , 987.2 spyder and a 981 gt4 and they have all achieved about 25mpg average during my ownership, although I never used for short trips and on a run the 987spyder might have achieved about 33mpg the gt4 was about 30mpg.
Servicing is also not going to cost much more than your CS it's basically oil and filter change on modern cars but brakes and tyres will cost you more.
Reliability is not an issue the engine has been around for over 10years now without any scare stories!
So just get one bought and enjoy
This ^As for fuel consumption I never found it to be too bad ie I have had 4 new Porsches 986s, 987.1cs , 987.2 spyder and a 981 gt4 and they have all achieved about 25mpg average during my ownership, although I never used for short trips and on a run the 987spyder might have achieved about 33mpg the gt4 was about 30mpg.
Servicing is also not going to cost much more than your CS it's basically oil and filter change on modern cars but brakes and tyres will cost you more.
Reliability is not an issue the engine has been around for over 10years now without any scare stories!
So just get one bought and enjoy
Engine is reliable...as has been said - its been around for ages in other guises and other power outputs.
Has been used in racing since 981 GT4 Clubsport race car and lives on in the 718 GT4 Clubsport race car... will be around for the next 2years at least in that car.
As a fun car - MPG isn't that bad. If you're gonna drive it hard... it will use fuel.
If you stay off the track then I doubt it will cost you much more to run than the CS. As someone said, if you can buy so you avoid the major service (£1300-1400 at an OPC), and get one with a decent amount of tyre life left then you'll avoid the big running costs (a full set of new Cup 2s is around the £1500 mark). Low to mid 20s mpg is what I typically see driving on the road (about 4 on track!).
David
David
nudgerwilliams said:
If you stay off the track then I doubt it will cost you much more to run than the CS. As someone said, if you can buy so you avoid the major service (£1300-1400 at an OPC), and get one with a decent amount of tyre life left then you'll avoid the big running costs (a full set of new Cup 2s is around the £1500 mark). Low to mid 20s mpg is what I typically see driving on the road (about 4 on track!).
David
Hi, I've got half share in another (much cheaper) track car so I doubt it will see the track and if it does it won't be 10/10ths.David
Fuel usage isn't an issue then at all. It's not a daily so not too worried about it either way and it's a big NA lump so I expect it to chew it at times...there was a Hot Rod rally here in Oz and judging by the smell of fumes they must have been doing 5mpg just punting around down (fumes nearly knocked us out at 15 feet).
I know about the tall gearing and that's the main thing I need to experience in the flesh.
Also the EPS steering which I understand is very different to the normal 981.
In terms of colours, considering the thing has a bloody huge fin out the back I like more restrained. GT Silver with black inside and silver/grey stitching/belts. No PCCB, buckets and PSE. Other stuff I personally don't care about. The things going to depreciate no matter what!
It's interesting that 10 year old manual 997.2 C2 are holding steady at £40k+ whereas 4 year old GT4's with 1/4 the miles may be heading sub £60k soon. Which is the better value...
The manual 997.2 sure is alot rarer on the used market.
EDIT: meant 997.2 C2S and not the C2, i e. car with similar engine to GT4.
The manual 997.2 sure is alot rarer on the used market.
EDIT: meant 997.2 C2S and not the C2, i e. car with similar engine to GT4.
Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 5th February 20:19
The main things to consider are brakes and tyres.
It might be a Cayman but it's running GT3 brakes - circa £3000 + fitting for original steel discs and pads. Measure the thickness of the discs. As long as there is 1mm left and no visible cracks you should be fine for a couple of years for road use at your planned mileage.
If it's on ceramics, have them inspected. Replacing those is ruinous.
As mentioned earlier, tyres are about £1500 a set. The Michelins are soft and wear pretty quick. You'll probably end up replacing them once in 2 years at 4000miles per year. Not the end of the world.
It might be a Cayman but it's running GT3 brakes - circa £3000 + fitting for original steel discs and pads. Measure the thickness of the discs. As long as there is 1mm left and no visible cracks you should be fine for a couple of years for road use at your planned mileage.
If it's on ceramics, have them inspected. Replacing those is ruinous.
As mentioned earlier, tyres are about £1500 a set. The Michelins are soft and wear pretty quick. You'll probably end up replacing them once in 2 years at 4000miles per year. Not the end of the world.
Andyoz said:
It's interesting that 10 year old manual 997.2 C2 are holding steady at £40k+ whereas 4 year old GT4's with 1/4 the miles may be heading sub £60k soon. Which is the better value...
The manual 997 sure is a lot rarer on the used market.
Manual 997 prices have already bottomed out. GT4s are still depreciating. So yeah, if you mean value retention then the C2 is a better buy. The manual 997 sure is a lot rarer on the used market.
For road/weekend use I'd prob get the 997. For road use and serious track performance I don't think you can beat a GT4. A 997 C2 wouldn't see which way it went on track.
I bought my GT4 last year. I plan on keeping it around 3 years. I'm expecting to lose maybe £10k over the term. It's an awesome car. If you like changing your own gears and want a raw experience with a great noise, I don't think there's much out there that matches it. Lotus maybe, but the GT4 somehow feels special. And did I mention the noise!
Ah my bad...typo in my original post..I meant to type 997 C2S not C2, i.e. same engine the GT4 is based on.
The manual C2S's I see listed are in the low £40k's and giving there aern't that many manuals I'm guessing they change hands for just below £40k?
Nice C2 at Ashgoods though.
Have they had any GT4 in stock as haven't noticed any lately? I chatted to them about their white Cayman R pre Xmas but wasn't decided on car I was going for then. The R seems slightly overpriced to me personally ATM with lots of other cars coming down in price to distract buyers attention. It's still in the mix though ...
The manual C2S's I see listed are in the low £40k's and giving there aern't that many manuals I'm guessing they change hands for just below £40k?
Nice C2 at Ashgoods though.
Have they had any GT4 in stock as haven't noticed any lately? I chatted to them about their white Cayman R pre Xmas but wasn't decided on car I was going for then. The R seems slightly overpriced to me personally ATM with lots of other cars coming down in price to distract buyers attention. It's still in the mix though ...
Oz83 said:
The main things to consider are brakes and tyres.
It might be a Cayman but it's running GT3 brakes - circa £3000 + fitting for original steel discs and pads. Measure the thickness of the discs. As long as there is 1mm left and no visible cracks you should be fine for a couple of years for road use at your planned mileage.
If it's on ceramics, have them inspected. Replacing those is ruinous.
As mentioned earlier, tyres are about £1500 a set. The Michelins are soft and wear pretty quick. You'll probably end up replacing them once in 2 years at 4000miles per year. Not the end of the world.
Thanks and noted.It might be a Cayman but it's running GT3 brakes - circa £3000 + fitting for original steel discs and pads. Measure the thickness of the discs. As long as there is 1mm left and no visible cracks you should be fine for a couple of years for road use at your planned mileage.
If it's on ceramics, have them inspected. Replacing those is ruinous.
As mentioned earlier, tyres are about £1500 a set. The Michelins are soft and wear pretty quick. You'll probably end up replacing them once in 2 years at 4000miles per year. Not the end of the world.
Oz83 said:
Andyoz said:
It's interesting that 10 year old manual 997.2 C2 are holding steady at £40k+ whereas 4 year old GT4's with 1/4 the miles may be heading sub £60k soon. Which is the better value...
The manual 997 sure is a lot rarer on the used market.
Manual 997 prices have already bottomed out. GT4s are still depreciating. So yeah, if you mean value retention then the C2 is a better buy. The manual 997 sure is a lot rarer on the used market.
For road/weekend use I'd prob get the 997. For road use and serious track performance I don't think you can beat a GT4. A 997 C2 wouldn't see which way it went on track.
I bought my GT4 last year. I plan on keeping it around 3 years. I'm expecting to lose maybe £10k over the term. It's an awesome car. If you like changing your own gears and want a raw experience with a great noise, I don't think there's much out there that matches it. Lotus maybe, but the GT4 somehow feels special. And did I mention the noise!
One thing that's very important to me is the right 'noise'. I'm a mechanical engineer by degree but work in 'acoustics' so that gives an idea where my head is at.
What's so special about the GT4 noise compared to say a 997 C2S? Engines obviously closer so more induction noise. I'm hoping they've left out some soundproofing too.
I basically want a car that beats me up a bit so I'm glad to hop back into the Merc estate daily
I was watching video of one with Fabspeed headers on it and it's bloody amazing. I realiy think this is a reason the 981 GT4 will hold its own against the newer stuff....all it's missing is hydraulic steering Haha.
If I lost say £5k to £8k depreciation in 2 years I could live with that. Like many I'm waiting to see if values change any more with more 718 GT4 coming on stream. Values may actually undershoot a bit this Spring as lots of cars for sale and all manuals of course. Are the PDK fabs offloading their 981 manuals they bought as a stop gap?
Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 5th February 20:50
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