718 GT4/Spyder/GTS 4.0 - the last without electrification?
Discussion
We've not not seen any new platform mules yet so I'm guessing the 982 is looking likely to stay until it goes electric. I don't think there's room to make it a hybrid, unlike the 992, so is the Cayster platform likely to go fully electric in the future? How far away is that future? Has anyone heard any rumours or statements from Porsche?
I'm just curious on the run up to collecting my 718 GT4 whether this will be my forever car. I'm not interested in 911s and I'm looking purely at the Cayman with an NA engine and a manual gearbox.
Is the 718 GT4 and 718 GTS 4.0 the last of the line? Or do we think we'll get another round of models before electrification?
I'm just curious on the run up to collecting my 718 GT4 whether this will be my forever car. I'm not interested in 911s and I'm looking purely at the Cayman with an NA engine and a manual gearbox.
Is the 718 GT4 and 718 GTS 4.0 the last of the line? Or do we think we'll get another round of models before electrification?
Twinfan said:
Longevity of use is not what I'm asking.
I'm wondering if Porsche have any plans to update the 718 series before electrification.
I guess they have multiple options depending on how climate change law goes.I'm wondering if Porsche have any plans to update the 718 series before electrification.
In 5 years I won't be holding onto any car over £40k just in case.
i'll pay off my mortgage and see what happens, just keep my 987.2 Spyder.
really strange times atm with all these city bans and NO sales of even hybrid cars in 12 years !!
people in their 30-40's will have tough choices, I'll be 63 by then and had my fun, take up bowls or some thing ! :-)
There have been various reports in the motor press and the majority seem to suggest that electrification for 718 is inevitable with some saying that this will be as soon as 2022. Perhaps though Porsche will adopt a similar strategy as they are doing with Macan by keeping current ICE model in production alongside the new electric range. Some reports have suggested a minor facelift both inside and out in the meantime. Who knows ? Another consideration is the potential fitment of speed limiters from 2022 for new models and 2024 for existing models. I don’t see any point in buying performance cars after this date if this all comes to pass. So I am certainly regarding my 718 Spyder ( when it arrives with PDK !) as my 'last roll of the Porsche sportscar dice . I’ ve had a good run though - a dozen Porsches over last 30 years !! I will also change my change my Macan before 2024 !!
I am investing in and keeping my Spyder for the long-haul - probably the last funky petrol car I will ever own.
Would LOVE an R8, but something tells me .... the Spyder is probably much more fun as an everyday event and far less fussy than any R8.
I have had a hell of a lot of fun times in all the crazy/silly mid-level cars I’ve owned - never been bothered about depreciation - just focused on the miles of smiles. I think our generation has been firmly living in the golden age of motoring.
If I end up with an EV sports car before I die, please kill me, I could not yet imagine, anything worse.
The feeling of Super Unleaded in your veins cannot be beaten.
Would LOVE an R8, but something tells me .... the Spyder is probably much more fun as an everyday event and far less fussy than any R8.
I have had a hell of a lot of fun times in all the crazy/silly mid-level cars I’ve owned - never been bothered about depreciation - just focused on the miles of smiles. I think our generation has been firmly living in the golden age of motoring.
If I end up with an EV sports car before I die, please kill me, I could not yet imagine, anything worse.
The feeling of Super Unleaded in your veins cannot be beaten.
WG said:
There have been various reports in the motor press and the majority seem to suggest that electrification for 718 is inevitable with some saying that this will be as soon as 2022. Perhaps though Porsche will adopt a similar strategy as they are doing with Macan by keeping current ICE model in production alongside the new electric range. Some reports have suggested a minor facelift both inside and out in the meantime. Who knows ? Another consideration is the potential fitment of speed limiters from 2022 for new models and 2024 for existing models. I don’t see any point in buying performance cars after this date if this all comes to pass. So I am certainly regarding my 718 Spyder ( when it arrives with PDK !) as my 'last roll of the Porsche sportscar dice . I’ ve had a good run though - a dozen Porsches over last 30 years !! I will also change my change my Macan before 2024 !!
Macan and 718 are both going 100% electric AFAIK. I think Macan might be next year.For Porsche to be able to sell 911’s with a petrol engine and cars like Cayenne and Panamera with Hybrid I think they need the volume models to be electric so they can hit the average emissions target for the cars they produce.
By the time we see 992.2 I wouldn’t be surprised if everything is hybrid at a minimum.
gpgts said:
Hadn't seen that - cheers for sharing. The fact they say the 718 is likely in its next iteration to be an EV ties in exactly with what PRG employee advised me recently.I've a BMW 330e hybrid and to be fair on short journeys in to town or the gym, the electric is absolutely fine - it'll do 80 if you want it to (not for long, mind) and the latest software seems to be eking out a little more range (car is a 67 plate). Electric is not all bad, but until range issues are sorted I believe for the vast majority, the cars just aren't practical. If you put the car in ECO mode its pretty easy to get circa 60mpg, not bad for a family wagon.
There is nothing better than uncertainty to compromise a market !
If we look at our interest in Porsche, for some it's in the moment and for others it's as followers of the brand, having enjoyed a journey of ownership from the point where they joined as far back as the first 911's in the '60's ... and a passion for the brand that encompasses engineering and styling excellence, performance mobility ... and the emotion that surrounds the internal combustion engine (from steam !).
All if these things can be maintained and preserved, creating a heritage and a future with the obvious joy of ownership at all levels.
Contrast and compare this to the Electric Car.
I bought a BMW i3 in 2014. I had intended to add it to my collection as I was told by the BMW dealership that everything around the carbon fibre chassis, interior trim and body panels would be updated as better technology became available. It might even be possible at rebuild to change the styling and colour with plug-in bodywork.
The fly in the ointment ? As my battery ages BMW appear to have forgotten this and will NOT comment on my assertion that as they refuse to offer either upgrades or merely an affordable exchange battery of the current specification, that the life of this car is being defined by the ageing of the existing battery.
They do say that the car is 85% recyclable ... which is an environmental disaster comparing the original environmental cost of the car and it's short lifespan under this policy.
I have pressed Jason on this question and he will not reply to it, saying merely that I should part exchange it for another ... (whilst the battery is still within the 8 year pro-rated guarantee ?).
This is exactly contrary to the reason I chose the i3 !!
So, who will collect and appreciate the evolution of the electric car ? Where is either the emotional connection or the economic or environmental justification ?
Of course we are in transition ... but if we all turned our heating down a bit, added a T shirt and insulated and made other energy consumption economies that we all so easily can, we would easily cover our car fuel guilt ...
The talk of oil production or flying ever becoming carbon neutral is an illusion and can only be a poor excuse for kicking the can down the road until it is somebody else's bigger problem.
I read that a tree in it's lifetime sequests one tonne of CO2.
100 kilos of petrol burns to creates over three times this weight of CO2 ... and as a round number 50 litres of petrol weighs 40Kilos.
Energy from fossil fuel is very expensive, we can make easy savings in some places and less easy savings in others. Saving is not an option ... but with solid facts we can at least choose the least disruptive options.
Would you believe that unless there have been recent changes there is NO recycling facility for Lithium Ion batteries in the UK ... and the vast majority are embedded in consumer durables that will be expensive to remove / recycle / if ever this is properly done ?
The answer now is simply to use less, and to make all the easy savings so that the difficult savings can take place in a managed way ...
But where are the facts from which these decisions can be made ?
If we look at our interest in Porsche, for some it's in the moment and for others it's as followers of the brand, having enjoyed a journey of ownership from the point where they joined as far back as the first 911's in the '60's ... and a passion for the brand that encompasses engineering and styling excellence, performance mobility ... and the emotion that surrounds the internal combustion engine (from steam !).
All if these things can be maintained and preserved, creating a heritage and a future with the obvious joy of ownership at all levels.
Contrast and compare this to the Electric Car.
I bought a BMW i3 in 2014. I had intended to add it to my collection as I was told by the BMW dealership that everything around the carbon fibre chassis, interior trim and body panels would be updated as better technology became available. It might even be possible at rebuild to change the styling and colour with plug-in bodywork.
The fly in the ointment ? As my battery ages BMW appear to have forgotten this and will NOT comment on my assertion that as they refuse to offer either upgrades or merely an affordable exchange battery of the current specification, that the life of this car is being defined by the ageing of the existing battery.
They do say that the car is 85% recyclable ... which is an environmental disaster comparing the original environmental cost of the car and it's short lifespan under this policy.
I have pressed Jason on this question and he will not reply to it, saying merely that I should part exchange it for another ... (whilst the battery is still within the 8 year pro-rated guarantee ?).
This is exactly contrary to the reason I chose the i3 !!
So, who will collect and appreciate the evolution of the electric car ? Where is either the emotional connection or the economic or environmental justification ?
Of course we are in transition ... but if we all turned our heating down a bit, added a T shirt and insulated and made other energy consumption economies that we all so easily can, we would easily cover our car fuel guilt ...
The talk of oil production or flying ever becoming carbon neutral is an illusion and can only be a poor excuse for kicking the can down the road until it is somebody else's bigger problem.
I read that a tree in it's lifetime sequests one tonne of CO2.
100 kilos of petrol burns to creates over three times this weight of CO2 ... and as a round number 50 litres of petrol weighs 40Kilos.
Energy from fossil fuel is very expensive, we can make easy savings in some places and less easy savings in others. Saving is not an option ... but with solid facts we can at least choose the least disruptive options.
Would you believe that unless there have been recent changes there is NO recycling facility for Lithium Ion batteries in the UK ... and the vast majority are embedded in consumer durables that will be expensive to remove / recycle / if ever this is properly done ?
The answer now is simply to use less, and to make all the easy savings so that the difficult savings can take place in a managed way ...
But where are the facts from which these decisions can be made ?
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 15th February 08:51
Porsche911R said:
I guess they have multiple options depending on how climate change law goes.
In 5 years I won't be holding onto any car over £40k just in case.
i'll pay off my mortgage and see what happens, just keep my 987.2 Spyder.
really strange times atm with all these city bans and NO sales of even hybrid cars in 12 years !!
people in their 30-40's will have tough choices, I'll be 63 by then and had my fun, take up bowls or some thing ! :-)
I agree with your thoughts on this. 5 years ago, I'd have bought a brand new 911 with the view of having it as a 'forever' car.....but now....I am just resigned in thinking it will be completely pointless owning it soon. I don't want or need multiple cars...just need one....so my current thought it...keep my 981 then just rent some plastic electric thing and spend my money on something else! Go crazy on some home Hi-Fi!!!In 5 years I won't be holding onto any car over £40k just in case.
i'll pay off my mortgage and see what happens, just keep my 987.2 Spyder.
really strange times atm with all these city bans and NO sales of even hybrid cars in 12 years !!
people in their 30-40's will have tough choices, I'll be 63 by then and had my fun, take up bowls or some thing ! :-)
Climate change is happening however how much of it is caused by humans is still open for debate..For argument's sake let's assume that is caused by human activity..The problem lies in as traditional third world countries evolve and get wealthier with all the trappings of wealth ie big houses, cars and other forms of disposable consumables made from oil based plastics then there is no solution..The only possible solution is to have a controlled reduction of global human population coupled with moving back to a simpler existence we had even as little as 50 years ago..
Chris W makes a very valid point in just using everything less and turning the heating off and wearing an extra layer..All house in the UK should have the very latest insulation paid by the government and stop paying RHI to fuel thousands of Biomass boilers which have caused significant local pollution from the smoke they emit..
My RS and 458 only do about 5k mile s annually because they don't get used as dailies. In complete contrast witness our hugely congested roads where thousands of normal cars are competing for too little space which is totally unsustainable..Again a result of too many people trying to go about their daily activities..
I live on a large organic farm which is plastic free and nearly totally self sufficient where the energy comes from a commercial solar panel array..Trouble is my close neighbours are mega intensive dairy farms who use an astonishing amount of artificial fertiliser,bought in feeds, thousands of liters of weekly diesel etc because they're allowed to..
Governments need to legislate change other wise we'll be having this exact conversation in ten years when the situation will be worse still..
Chris W makes a very valid point in just using everything less and turning the heating off and wearing an extra layer..All house in the UK should have the very latest insulation paid by the government and stop paying RHI to fuel thousands of Biomass boilers which have caused significant local pollution from the smoke they emit..
My RS and 458 only do about 5k mile s annually because they don't get used as dailies. In complete contrast witness our hugely congested roads where thousands of normal cars are competing for too little space which is totally unsustainable..Again a result of too many people trying to go about their daily activities..
I live on a large organic farm which is plastic free and nearly totally self sufficient where the energy comes from a commercial solar panel array..Trouble is my close neighbours are mega intensive dairy farms who use an astonishing amount of artificial fertiliser,bought in feeds, thousands of liters of weekly diesel etc because they're allowed to..
Governments need to legislate change other wise we'll be having this exact conversation in ten years when the situation will be worse still..
There is a very interesting new Solar Farm near Easingwold ... covers 200 acres and will save far more CO2 than planting trees will ...
It is a first in that the panels follow the Sun and they are using batteries to store energy when plentiful, selling this with a planed car recharging station and choosing to top up the grid at premium prices ...
Below the panels they have planted wild flowers of a forest floor character ... I would love to do this ... my Wife prefers trees.
I was talking to a militant environmentalist recently who was working on ramping up the guilt trip demonstrations ...and then said it would all come to nought because we couldn't do enough against the big interests ... oil carbon neutral by offsetting ? Really ?? And Trump wanting to ensure that American oil is burnt first ... because a lot of it probably won't be.
We should be preserving resources for a time when far more can be done with oil than burning it.
There are some really exciting choices to be made .. but we do have to get out of the mindset of wanting more. It doesn't seem to make most people happier. But this why Porsche don't want us to modify our cars ... this might keep us happy for years when P really want to sell us a new one.
It is a first in that the panels follow the Sun and they are using batteries to store energy when plentiful, selling this with a planed car recharging station and choosing to top up the grid at premium prices ...
Below the panels they have planted wild flowers of a forest floor character ... I would love to do this ... my Wife prefers trees.
I was talking to a militant environmentalist recently who was working on ramping up the guilt trip demonstrations ...and then said it would all come to nought because we couldn't do enough against the big interests ... oil carbon neutral by offsetting ? Really ?? And Trump wanting to ensure that American oil is burnt first ... because a lot of it probably won't be.
We should be preserving resources for a time when far more can be done with oil than burning it.
There are some really exciting choices to be made .. but we do have to get out of the mindset of wanting more. It doesn't seem to make most people happier. But this why Porsche don't want us to modify our cars ... this might keep us happy for years when P really want to sell us a new one.
DJMC said:
Where does oil originate? Think about it... from dead vegetation etc. And more is being produced than we're using so there's no problem at all. It's all propoganda.
...these were the genuine thoughts of an American chap we got talking to in Florida a few years back. Is he correct?
Except that oil is fossilised after many millions of years ......these were the genuine thoughts of an American chap we got talking to in Florida a few years back. Is he correct?
Porsche911R said:
12 years
a forever car might be too expensive to use after that.
if they TAX old cars at £5k and make petrol £20 a L what will you do with it, the car will be unusable and worthless and banned from any City/town etc.
Emigrate. Seriously. We are no longer, at that point, living in a free country.a forever car might be too expensive to use after that.
if they TAX old cars at £5k and make petrol £20 a L what will you do with it, the car will be unusable and worthless and banned from any City/town etc.
I’m as strong a supporter of protecting the environment as anyone. Let’s recycle. Let’s use less one time packaging, let’s reduce industrial pollution. Let’s get honest about the chemicals in our foods. I just don’t believe in the whole MMGW CO2 schtick. I don’t believe in the government or local councils’ ability to achieve environmental goals nor that they will themselves reduce the pollution they produce, nor that they actually understand how they are killing business in the cities they are supposedly running. I’ll debate with anyone at length. We are living in a new medieval era under the control of witch doctors, for political goals our ‘betters’ won’t share with us.
The BBC and the government are determinedly equating disbelief in the CC agenda with ‘Holocaust Denial’. They are not so much winning the argument (because there has been no debate) they are shouting everyone else down. In reality CO2 is simply not a problem, but the Government has spent 20 years only funding research ‘proving’ it.
The current breed of electric cars just aren’t practical. The batteries fail, they are unrealistically expensive, there isn’t a charging network. I won’t buy one, but what they really want is to get rid of private transport altogether. I wish you all the best but I will be watching from overseas.
In that situation, and Britain is I believe one of the worst breeding grounds of self righteous PC activists, one has to accept that the country may ultimately vote for this. You have to vote with your feet. Get out, and take your nice cars with you. The only question is where to go.
The BBC and the government are determinedly equating disbelief in the CC agenda with ‘Holocaust Denial’. They are not so much winning the argument (because there has been no debate) they are shouting everyone else down. In reality CO2 is simply not a problem, but the Government has spent 20 years only funding research ‘proving’ it.
The current breed of electric cars just aren’t practical. The batteries fail, they are unrealistically expensive, there isn’t a charging network. I won’t buy one, but what they really want is to get rid of private transport altogether. I wish you all the best but I will be watching from overseas.
In that situation, and Britain is I believe one of the worst breeding grounds of self righteous PC activists, one has to accept that the country may ultimately vote for this. You have to vote with your feet. Get out, and take your nice cars with you. The only question is where to go.
ChrisW. said:
DJMC said:
Where does oil originate? Think about it... from dead vegetation etc. And more is being produced than we're using so there's no problem at all. It's all propoganda.
...these were the genuine thoughts of an American chap we got talking to in Florida a few years back. Is he correct?
Except that oil is fossilised after many millions of years ......these were the genuine thoughts of an American chap we got talking to in Florida a few years back. Is he correct?
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