Cayman/Boxster S 3.4 987.1 - 200 cel headers
Discussion
Hi. Has anybody got first hand experience of the options that are out there. I haven't got loads to spend so was looking at,
- Carnewal OEM converted/exchange at about £750. The pro's being fit should be perfect as OEM and they are cheap..Cons are they weren't a great design from Porsche with unequal length headers so not great for optimum performance, prob mild steel, prob heavy..
- Topgear 200 cel sport headers at about £1000. Look good but hear varying reports. The pros being they are stainless, equal length headers, poss lighter than OEM, ( not sure on the last point? ). The cons are that design911 website states "not an exact fit for 3.4 model due to slight difference vs 3.2 and may need slight modification to avoid blowing "
Not sure which option to go with but would welcome any feedback from people who've fitted Topgear option to a 3.4ltr or any alternatives that seem to fit well but don't cost much more than £1250 ish..
Anyone tried Design Tek option?
Cheers, Ed
- Carnewal OEM converted/exchange at about £750. The pro's being fit should be perfect as OEM and they are cheap..Cons are they weren't a great design from Porsche with unequal length headers so not great for optimum performance, prob mild steel, prob heavy..
- Topgear 200 cel sport headers at about £1000. Look good but hear varying reports. The pros being they are stainless, equal length headers, poss lighter than OEM, ( not sure on the last point? ). The cons are that design911 website states "not an exact fit for 3.4 model due to slight difference vs 3.2 and may need slight modification to avoid blowing "
Not sure which option to go with but would welcome any feedback from people who've fitted Topgear option to a 3.4ltr or any alternatives that seem to fit well but don't cost much more than £1250 ish..
Anyone tried Design Tek option?
Cheers, Ed
Anyone?
Might go for it whilst the lockdown is on if I can get delivered as if ever there was a time to do it it's now..If bolts look too corroded I may bottle it and wait to take them to an indi with ramps/gas/skill but no harm in having them ready..
Only other concern is world meltdown and wishing I hadn't spent the cash but then I guess going down in noisey blazing cayman is a decent way out..!?
Might go for it whilst the lockdown is on if I can get delivered as if ever there was a time to do it it's now..If bolts look too corroded I may bottle it and wait to take them to an indi with ramps/gas/skill but no harm in having them ready..
Only other concern is world meltdown and wishing I hadn't spent the cash but then I guess going down in noisey blazing cayman is a decent way out..!?
Thanks guys and fyi car already has Csrnewal GT which I believe is cat back mod.
Agree cmoose the stock design looks shocking and as if it was deliberately designed to stifle. Gert at Carnewal advised 3.2 is equal length and much better but I would need to track down a set and send to him which seems a bit pointless if for not a lot more I could buy stainless..I might call Topgear tomorrow if the are open to see why they blow on 3.4?
Agree cmoose the stock design looks shocking and as if it was deliberately designed to stifle. Gert at Carnewal advised 3.2 is equal length and much better but I would need to track down a set and send to him which seems a bit pointless if for not a lot more I could buy stainless..I might call Topgear tomorrow if the are open to see why they blow on 3.4?
Yep good 3.2 manifolds would be good if I could find them. Watching the "induction mid myths" vid and pouring over forums fries my brain to be honest...So much conflicting info out there..
Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
Edmundo2 said:
Yep good 3.2 manifolds would be good if I could find them. Watching the "induction mid myths" vid and pouring over forums fries my brain to be honest...So much conflicting info out there..
Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
My 3.4 987.1 ended up with 345bhp and no flat spots. Was a great drive.Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
My 987.2 has 350bhp.
The 981 3.4 will goto 380bhp.
Thanks for info. Do you mind me asking what mods lead to 345bhp with no flat spot?
My car currently just Csrnewal GT which I believe is just rear silencer mod..
Thanks, Ed
My 987.2 has 350bhp.
The 981 3.4 will goto 380bhp.
My car currently just Csrnewal GT which I believe is just rear silencer mod..
Thanks, Ed
Porsche911R said:
Edmundo2 said:
Yep good 3.2 manifolds would be good if I could find them. Watching the "induction mid myths" vid and pouring over forums fries my brain to be honest...So much conflicting info out there..
Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
My 3.4 987.1 ended up with 345bhp and no flat spots. Was a great drive.Not sure if Cayman was more restricted to avoid stealing thunder from 911 and therefore would offer better gains from better breathing, ( or whether that's well told folklore best on a nice plausable theory )
I know any gains will not be huge but as mentioned I really wanted better throttle response, removed flat spot, a bit more noise predominantly. If I could find 25hp along the way then great but there seems to be very few "proven" videos etc out there. I would say the remap prob required to optimise any mods but even then theres plenty of folk saying the stock ECU will adjust...
My 987.2 has 350bhp.
The 981 3.4 will goto 380bhp.
Well I've gone ahead and ordered IPD plenum, 82mm TB and Design Tek filter/intake system. Call it retail therapy..?
Already have Carnewal GT rear silencer so hope better induction will compliment this and yield a bit more power. Some say stock ECU will alter/learn and adjust fuelling to suit with some driving, others say it will need a remap... Hard to know but will take a view once the lockdown is lifted and ponder 200 cel manifolds and remap then..
Should certainly sound a bit better from the cabin if nothing else..
Already have Carnewal GT rear silencer so hope better induction will compliment this and yield a bit more power. Some say stock ECU will alter/learn and adjust fuelling to suit with some driving, others say it will need a remap... Hard to know but will take a view once the lockdown is lifted and ponder 200 cel manifolds and remap then..
Should certainly sound a bit better from the cabin if nothing else..
Had an enjoyable time tinkering today, ( a welcome release from boredom ). IPD plenum, 82mm TB and BMC filter all fitted. All went to plan and fitted nicely. IPD/TB is a bit of a PITA to fit but if you take your time it all goes together ok..BMC is straight forward and a good fit..
On start up it seems all is good with nice steady idle and no lights on the dash. IPD instructions advise that it may take 5 - 50 mile drive for things to really settle down as ECU re-calibrates to accomodate the increased airflow and starts to fuel at correct level. Unfortunately I can't drive it currently but once it was up to temperature I gave it a few blips of 3/4 throttle and it sounded glorious....Unfortunately I then realised that the rear hatch was open hence I was getting full unfiltered theatre but it certainly seemed tuneful..!
It's amazing how much conflicting info there is out there re how much or little these mods make so I'll have to wait and see..
Can't wait to get out on the road but will wait until it's sensible to do so. Hopefully it will seem improved and the components all go together with the exhaust to provide some extra poke/responsiveness.. .
On start up it seems all is good with nice steady idle and no lights on the dash. IPD instructions advise that it may take 5 - 50 mile drive for things to really settle down as ECU re-calibrates to accomodate the increased airflow and starts to fuel at correct level. Unfortunately I can't drive it currently but once it was up to temperature I gave it a few blips of 3/4 throttle and it sounded glorious....Unfortunately I then realised that the rear hatch was open hence I was getting full unfiltered theatre but it certainly seemed tuneful..!
It's amazing how much conflicting info there is out there re how much or little these mods make so I'll have to wait and see..
Can't wait to get out on the road but will wait until it's sensible to do so. Hopefully it will seem improved and the components all go together with the exhaust to provide some extra poke/responsiveness.. .
Edmundo2 said:
Unfortunately I can't drive it currently but once it was up to temperature I gave it a few blips of 3/4 throttle and it sounded glorious....Unfortunately I then realised that the rear hatch was open hence I was getting full unfiltered theatre but it certainly seemed tuneful..!
It's amazing how much conflicting info there is out there re how much or little these mods make so I'll have to wait and see .
Get a Boxster ..... It's amazing how much conflicting info there is out there re how much or little these mods make so I'll have to wait and see .
Did you do a before and after Dyno? Yes there are lots of claims for different mods. Most suppliers and users cannot substantiate the claims. I did Dyno my car standard and at each stage of mods. I stuck to the same Dyno. When I was done, unasked for the Dyno to pull all my individual graphs onto one graph overlaid.
I like the noise and I like an open top but trying to arrive at a real drivers car and I like the Cayman and the chassis/taughtness thanks..Could just remove the rear hatch I guess??
No before dynos unfortunately. I figure mods either do or don't improve things and I'll only find out they don't when I've done them so it is what it is...The air filter/ bigger TB/ smoother flow plenum make sense on paper if exhaust also freer and can clear more gasses..I may get it dyno'd at some point but prob only at time of mapping if I go there as they go hand in hand...My gut instinct is 200 cel headers, ( wait for covid to clear before getting it on ramps to look at bolts ), and lightweight flywheel would be worth getting in place before spending money on a dyno/remap...What I'd really like to understand is how OEM ecu adjusts to such mods and whether it's enough or whether a remap brings much more?
How did yours end up? Better or worse than expected? What spec did you arrive at?
Ed
No before dynos unfortunately. I figure mods either do or don't improve things and I'll only find out they don't when I've done them so it is what it is...The air filter/ bigger TB/ smoother flow plenum make sense on paper if exhaust also freer and can clear more gasses..I may get it dyno'd at some point but prob only at time of mapping if I go there as they go hand in hand...My gut instinct is 200 cel headers, ( wait for covid to clear before getting it on ramps to look at bolts ), and lightweight flywheel would be worth getting in place before spending money on a dyno/remap...What I'd really like to understand is how OEM ecu adjusts to such mods and whether it's enough or whether a remap brings much more?
How did yours end up? Better or worse than expected? What spec did you arrive at?
Ed
edc said:
Get a Boxster .....
Did you do a before and after Dyno? Yes there are lots of claims for different mods. Most suppliers and users cannot substantiate the claims. I did Dyno my car standard and at each stage of mods. I stuck to the same Dyno. When I was done, unasked for the Dyno to pull all my individual graphs onto one graph overlaid.
Did you do a before and after Dyno? Yes there are lots of claims for different mods. Most suppliers and users cannot substantiate the claims. I did Dyno my car standard and at each stage of mods. I stuck to the same Dyno. When I was done, unasked for the Dyno to pull all my individual graphs onto one graph overlaid.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't quite agree. I think the thing that matters most is whether you achieve what you want. If that is enjoyment of the mod process itself that's great. If you want pub bragging rights or are genuinely interested to see if the mods make a measured difference then some sort of Dyno or measurement is needed otherwise it's all just guesswork. It could be a 30-70, a 1/4 mile or whatever. Bum Dyno is ok if you can't be bothered with any of the above but just want some comfort and feel good factor that you haven't wasted your money 😁Indeed. Can't feel s
t right now!
Not expecting loads from any bolt on bits... I've not had the car long and still have a lot of aquainting to do to appreciate the car as is before any changes...
I've not looked into real mods in terms of bigger displacement/cc, cams, cranks, pistons, etc but I assume it's all crazy money and more than the value of the car to the point it's cheaper to go buy a GT3...? On the basis I can't afford that and the car is really nice already I think maxxing the breathing + improving throttle response for a couple of grand is a reasonsble approach..The chassis/suspension are mega too so perhaps just a few brake improvements to complete the picture..
Exciting and visceral is the aim and if some of it comes in the form of noisey placebo then that's ok...If its quicker as well then great
t right now! Not expecting loads from any bolt on bits... I've not had the car long and still have a lot of aquainting to do to appreciate the car as is before any changes...
I've not looked into real mods in terms of bigger displacement/cc, cams, cranks, pistons, etc but I assume it's all crazy money and more than the value of the car to the point it's cheaper to go buy a GT3...? On the basis I can't afford that and the car is really nice already I think maxxing the breathing + improving throttle response for a couple of grand is a reasonsble approach..The chassis/suspension are mega too so perhaps just a few brake improvements to complete the picture..
Exciting and visceral is the aim and if some of it comes in the form of noisey placebo then that's ok...If its quicker as well then great
Edmundo2 said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... This was over 6 years ago now. I've only tried different cats since 2013 trying a pair of second hand 100 cell then some new 200 cell. In between was a few months back to the standard ones but all the time with the eBay manifolds.
With already having Carnewal GT rear section would that not mean it was completely without cats? I would assume this would be an MOT fail if so?
dunc_sx said:
Best off with a straight through pipe with these as you don't need them. No MOT problems and less restriction/cost than anything else 
Dunc.
Dunc.
My 3.7L 987.1 Cayman S had a Miltek de-catted rear section when I bought it. I started to get a blow from the headers, and when they were removed I discovered that the primary cats had been emptied, so I had been running with no cats at all. I subsequently replaced the headers with new Top Gear straight through pipes and the car has been through three MOTs since. Apparently it does need a "sympathetic" tester 
It also still manages to pass 101db trackday noise tests.
In short it does seem you can get through an MOT with no cats.....
It also still manages to pass 101db trackday noise tests.
In short it does seem you can get through an MOT with no cats.....
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