987.2 Cayman - Cargraphic options

[Andyoz]

Hi,

I'm researching exhausts for my Cayman R.
Mine has PSE but considering taking it off while it still works and storing.

Who's running Cargraphic and can guide me through these options. It's a weekend car and doesn't need to be switchable (my PSE is modded to be always On). I don't plan to track it either.

Headers:
https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

The rest:
https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

Any decent sound clips as I'm not finding anything.

Thanks in advance...

[TDT]

911R has Cargraphic headers on his 987.2 Spyder... he might post his vid if you ask nicely, lol

I assume you’re looking at the sports manifolds with 200 cell cats?

Edited by TDT on Saturday 14th November 17:36

[Andyoz]

Yes, I think the first option listed in this link but their price means alot less user feedback on the forums.

https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

Do people only install the headers?

[ATM]

Andyoz said:

Yes, I think the first option listed in this link but their price means alot less user feedback on the forums.

https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

Do people only install the headers?

Headers only rather than full exhaust is common on lots of pork of this era as the factory headers are absolutley sheet. And therefore most gains can be had in this area followed by cats.

[Andyoz]

ATM said:

Andyoz said:

Yes, I think the first option listed in this link but their price means alot less user feedback on the forums.

https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

Do people only install the headers?

Headers only rather than full exhaust is common on lots of pork of this era as the factory headers are absolutley sheet. And therefore most gains can be had in this area followed by cats.

Yes, I had a good look at the headers on my old Gen 1 and they are 'interesting' to say the least...the Gen 2 look a bit better.

Is there much difference between Gargraphic and the M&M (FVD) offerings?
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BES987C1200SHD/long-tube...

Any known MOT issues going down this route.

[ATM]

Andyoz said:

ATM said:

Andyoz said:

Yes, I think the first option listed in this link but their price means alot less user feedback on the forums.

https://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche...

Do people only install the headers?

Headers only rather than full exhaust is common on lots of pork of this era as the factory headers are absolutley sheet. And therefore most gains can be had in this area followed by cats.

Yes, I had a good look at the headers on my old Gen 1 and they are 'interesting' to say the least...the Gen 2 look a bit better.

Is there much difference between Gargraphic and the M&M (FVD) offerings?
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BES987C1200SHD/long-tube...

Any known MOT issues going down this route.

On cheaper older 9x6 cars the cheapo Chinese ones off ebay seem popular as they only cost about 150 quid.

[TDT]

M&M are pretty much best quality and reputation supplying Porsche motorsport, Manthey Racing team and other customer teams.
FVD have their top end products Bromacher built by M&M, but they are separate companies.

I believe Cargraphic tubes are machine formed and M&M are hand formed?

[Slippydiff]

Shouldn’t be any MOT/emission issues with 200 cell cats, but you’ll need a remap to optimise the gains from the improved manifolds and cats.

You can buy off M & M exhausts directly.
Not much in it between Cargraphic and
M & M, Jens at Ehresmann uses M & M, whilst BGB in the States use Cargraphic, both get good horsepower out of the Gen 2 engines using their respective choices.

[Andyoz]

It's an exercise in power and sound

I like the sound of the PSE though with the always On mod to be honest.

I assume my PSE will have issues with baffles/corrosion etc. at some stage and rather than having to sink alot into replacing that just wondering what the full Cargraphic systems cost now (and I store my current PSE). I prefer priced a replacement PSE from the headers flange back and sure it was well over £3k for the proper R rig. How much Cargraphic does say £5/6k buy?

At least Cargraphic etc has a resale value if I ever need to shift it on.

Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 14th November 19:46

[Slippydiff]

Andyoz said:

It's an exercise in power and sound

I like the sound of the PSE though with the always On mod to be honest.

I assume my PSE will have issues with baffles/corrosion etc. at some stage and rather than having to sink alot into replacing that just wondering what the full Cargraphic systems cost now (and I store my current PSE). I prefer priced a replacement PSE from the headers flange back and sure it was well over £3k for the proper R rig. How much Cargraphic does say £5/6k buy?

At least Cargraphic etc has a resale value if I ever need to shift it on.

Longtube manifolds with 200 cell cats £3.3K, switchable system just over £2K.

I'm not aware that the Cayman silencers corrode like 996/997 items, and the OE system/silencer won't massively sap power if used in conjunction with the longtube manifolds and 200 cell cats, and if you're looking for more noise, the 200 cell cats should liven things up a bit.

[Rocket.]

Loving your man maths there Andy

I have a quote for a full bespoke inconel 200 cel headers and titanium exhaust system for £5-6k if you want to see it? The weight saving should be significant too.

[Slippydiff]

Here's an M & M soundclip on an R :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgBxfKh7w4&ap...

I'm a big fan of the M & M stuff, I ran this system on a Mk1 996 GT3 :



it sounded superb and produced big horsepower gains. I suspect that's why Jens Ehresmann uses them.

[Andyoz]

Slippydiff said:

Andyoz said:

It's an exercise in power and sound

I like the sound of the PSE though with the always On mod to be honest.

I assume my PSE will have issues with baffles/corrosion etc. at some stage and rather than having to sink alot into replacing that just wondering what the full Cargraphic systems cost now (and I store my current PSE). I prefer priced a replacement PSE from the headers flange back and sure it was well over £3k for the proper R rig. How much Cargraphic does say £5/6k buy?

At least Cargraphic etc has a resale value if I ever need to shift it on.

Longtube manifolds with 200 cell cats £3.3K, switchable system just over £2K.

I'm not aware that the Cayman silencers corrode like 996/997 items, and the OE system/silencer won't massively sap power if used in conjunction with the longtube manifolds and 200 cell cats, and if you're looking for more noise, the 200 cell cats should liven things up a bit.

Yes, I know what you mean. When I bought the car the PPI only showed it needed an AOS (I'm changing that) and there was a rattle in drivers side back box. Report stated broken back box baffle which I knew would cost £££ BUT once home up on the rack it turns out it's just the PSE actuator slightly lose. So a £5 spot weld and I dodged mini bullet.

Before I found the cause I'd rung OPC for new flange back exhaust. Of course, they've priced it so you end up buying both sides together and I'm sure it was a hefty sum over £3,500. Made me think about when the PSE does finally go as I'm going to put miles on her

[Andyoz]

Rocket. said:

Loving your man maths there Andy

I have a quote for a full bespoke inconel 200 cel headers and titanium exhaust system for £5-6k if you want to see it? The weight saving should be significant too.

Ok, would be very interested and sent you a pm.

My man maths might be wrong but I'm hoping that a top tier brand exhaust might fetch 40-50% new price if sold on on great condition (if it came to it). Maybe you only get a third back...

Weight is definitely a nice by product and I'm sure there's must be nearly 10kg saving to be found?

Also when will light batteries get cheaper?!?

Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 14th November 21:23

[Andyoz]

Slippydiff said:

Longtube manifolds with 200 cell cats £3.3K, switchable system just over £2K.

I'm not aware that the Cayman silencers corrode like 996/997 items, and the OE system/silencer won't massively sap power if used in conjunction with the longtube manifolds and 200 cell cats, and if you're looking for more noise, the 200 cell cats should liven things up a bit.

That's interesting about 996/997 silencer corrosion. Being stuck up where they are must make them prone to gathering 'crap'.

[Porsche911R]

On my 987.1 I change the rear as that’s where the cats are.

In my 987.2 I only fitted the 2x 200cell manifolds as that’s where all four x 400 cell cats live.

Sounds mega paired with the PSE and is totally 2 sounds.
I will post my clips tomorrow.

[Andyoz]

Porsche911R said:

On my 987.1 I change the rear as that’s where the cats are.

In my 987.2 I only fitted the 2x 200cell manifolds as that’s where all four x 400 cell cats live.

Sounds mega paired with the PSE and is totally 2 sounds.
I will post my clips tomorrow.

I know when I was researching Carnewal mod for my gen 1 exhaust Gert gets better sound in the gen 1 conversion as he removes that rear Cat.

What's the best way to describe the change in sound?

Does the spyder PSE get the 55mm diameter exhaust from flange to back box or stock 48mm? I noticed the Cargraphic headers state 50mm bore exit (I think). Hows that interface with an R's 55mm Exhaust...

[Andyoz]

I was surprised how much better the header mount plate + bolts on the R have held up compared to the 987.1S.

Photos of each...

[Slippydiff]

Andyoz said:

I was surprised how much better the header mount plate + bolts on the R have held up compared to the 987.1S.

Photos of each...

Different bolts (I suspect for that very reason you’ve shown) likewise the manifold flange.

[Andyoz]

Slippydiff said:

Andyoz said:

I was surprised how much better the header mount plate + bolts on the R have held up compared to the 987.1S.

Photos of each...

Different bolts (I suspect for that very reason you’ve shown) likewise the manifold flange.

Yes, I went under the R expecting the worst and was pleasantly surprised.

It gave me hope that new headers could go on without breaking any bolts ...the flange bolts look a bit worse though.